The Conflict in Afghanistan

[dockers_strike]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

It would seem many Afghans don't share our Western definition of the word enslaved. 

That's patently not correct seeing as there are tens of thousands trying to get out of the country.

[TheHowieLama]

I think there are probably a fair few just trying to get the fuck out of Afghanistan, not necessarily fleeing the Taliban.

[VladimirIlyich]

6 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

That's patently not correct seeing as there are tens of thousands trying to get out of the country.

There are more than just tens of thousands within the country we call Afghanistan so I'd imagine a fair few who are not leaving are ok or simply resigned to the situation. There are also probably agreements between different tribespeople regarding who can go where and do what and not everybody will be that inconvenienced given they've been through it many times before,Taliban(Mujahadeen,)Russians,Taliban,US/Nato and now back to the Taliban. All cunts of different stripes to different people. Now if only that country wasnt the worlds largest Heroin producer.

[Bjornebye]

This is from 2020 as well. 

[Colonel Bumcunt]

AM sure someone has already posted this, but it's worth a double post:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/25/blame-afghanistan-war-media-intervention

 

 

As much as we don't like seeing what we're seeing now, again, take a breath and step back and look at this rationally. Do we have a plan for Afghanistan?  Forget about 20 years ago, what about right now, with hindsight, surely we now walk away, apologising profusely? 

 

How does this translate to our foreign policy in general now?  Where do we draw a line in letting affairs of other states continue without us sending our military in?  

 

I re-watched the 9/11 documentary the other day, almost 20 years now, and it's hard to believe that any foreign policy will stop a country from seeking revenge, however misguided.  

[SasaS]

26 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

AM sure someone has already posted this, but it's worth a double post:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/25/blame-afghanistan-war-media-intervention

 

 

As much as we don't like seeing what we're seeing now, again, take a breath and step back and look at this rationally. Do we have a plan for Afghanistan?  Forget about 20 years ago, what about right now, with hindsight, surely we now walk away, apologising profusely? 

 

How does this translate to our foreign policy in general now?  Where do we draw a line in letting affairs of other states continue without us sending our military in?  

 

I re-watched the 9/11 documentary the other day, almost 20 years now, and it's hard to believe that any foreign policy will stop a country from seeking revenge, however misguided.  

What foreign policy? The US has a foreign policy, UK (and to a point NATO) is there only to give American military interventions a semblance of international legitimacy.

 

Disagree with Monbiot about the 2001 toppling of Taliban, event though at the time I thought it was rushed, vengeful and not supported by evidence. In retrospect, it was unavoidable after 9/11, as Afghanistan under Taliban rule had been the rogue state.

Now, why it all didn't lead to an establishment of a viable non-Taliban state is a complex question, where role of regional powers needs to be examined more, as well as the actions and ideas of Afghans themselves, what do they actually want. Same as with Libya, Syria, Iraq, Egypt to an extent. Yemen. We are no longer living an an era where the game is played only by superpowers, it is increasingly affected by regional ambitions.

[Jairzinho]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Disagree with Monbiot about the 2001 toppling of Taliban, event though at the time I thought it was rushed, vengeful and not supported by evidence. In retrospect, it was unavoidable after 9/11, as Afghanistan under Taliban rule had been the rogue state.

Well, sort of. Our problem was that the state at the heart of the ideology, and major funder, was one of our bezzies in the Middle East.

[sir roger]

Article in the Guardian suggesting this could be the end of the ' special relationshipn' with the US made me chuckle. Not too many ' special relationships ' consisting of one partner saying jump and the other saying how high.

[TheHowieLama]

36 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Article in the Guardian suggesting this could be the end of the ' special relationshipn' with the US made me chuckle. Not too many ' special relationships ' consisting of one partner saying jump and the other saying how high.

Are you married?

[SasaS]

32 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Well, sort of. Our problem was that the state at the heart of the ideology, and major funder, was one of our bezzies in the Middle East.

It's a never ending web of interests, the US gives huge military aid to Pakistan which creates the Taliban which then provide safe space for the organization that attacks the US, funded by a former US ally against the Soviets and member of a rich Saudi family which does deals with the US. The US fights ISIS in northern Iraq and pretends not to notice the whole Iraqi government operation is masterminded on the ground by a high ranking Iranian official whom they later kill in a targeted assassination. Turkey and Russia were practically at war in Syria but allegedly worked together over revealing the details of the Saudis killing Khashoggi in Istanbul and some claim Russians alerted Erdogan during to botched coup what was going on. 

[Section_31]

5 hours ago, sir roger said:

Article in the Guardian suggesting this could be the end of the ' special relationshipn' with the US made me chuckle. Not too many ' special relationships ' consisting of one partner saying jump and the other saying how high.

It's actually cringeworthy the way the media talk about it and obsess over whether the latest White House incumbent gives a flying fuck.

 

Where were they during the Falklands? At home in Bididdleyboing, Idaho watching rounders and eating foods of dubious sugar content. Twenty years later we're in Iraq and Afghanistan without a single M&S to be found in either country.

[VladimirIlyich]

23 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

It's actually cringeworthy the way the media talk about it and obsess over whether the latest White House incumbent gives a flying fuck.

 

Where were they during the Falklands? At home in Bididdleyboing, Idaho watching rounders and eating foods of dubious sugar content. Twenty years later we're in Iraq and Afghanistan without a single M&S to be found in either country.

The Falklands? They just waited a few weeks until they could take a slice of the oil and mineral rights.

[Arniepie]

Has there ever been a special relationship?

Even as far back as ww2,we were on our knees and America did very little (well apart from doing business with the nazis)

As for Afghanistan, the soldier makes an excellent point in that video that certain people would have done very well out of 20 years of conflict)

I'm guessing you wont see many such parties in anti war protests any time soon.

[SasaS]

1 hour ago, Arniepie said:

Has there ever been a special relationship?

Even as far back as ww2,we were on our knees and America did very little (well apart from doing business with the nazis)

As for Afghanistan, the soldier makes an excellent point in that video that certain people would have done very well out of 20 years of conflict)

I'm guessing you wont see many such parties in anti war protests any time soon.

Almost nothing, apart from winning the war (together with the Red Army) which Britain has for all practical purposes already lost.

[Bruce Spanner]

Pet rescue: One of the more surreal stories coming out of the past few days has been the attempt by British charity worker Pen Farthing to get 200 animals onto a plane out of Kabul. Sky’s Sam Coates reveals Wallace told MPs on last night’s call that British soldiers had been “diverted” from saving Afghans to deal with Farthing’s case because of “inaccurate” claims by Farthing and his allies, describing the situation as “upsetting.” A government official last night pithily described Farthing to Playbook as “a sh*t Noah.”

 

Western spin vs. Afghan reality: The events of last night only emphasize how divorced from reality the rhetoric of Western leaders has been this week. Following his emergency G7 meeting on Tuesday, Boris Johnson said “the No. 1 condition that we’re insisting on is safe passage” for Afghans who want to leave. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken repeated yesterday that the Taliban have agreed to allow at-risk Afghans safe passage. The reality is that the Taliban are doing the opposite, blocking access to Britain’s processing center and banning Afghans from leaving the country — with total impunity. Radio Free Europe’s Frud Bezhan says the Taliban have now blocked all roads to Kabul airport and fighters are acting “extremely aggressively” to locals and dual citizens eligible to leave, refusing to let them through. Yet despite all the tough talk from the G7 about holding the Taliban to account on human rights, the only thing the British government has said about this is a line on the FCDO website warning: “There have been allegations of people being mistreated on their way to Kabul International Airport.”

 

Disturbing scenes: There was fresh evidence of human rights abuses last night. POLITICO’s Alex Ward and Lara Seligman report in our National Security Daily newsletter that the Taliban have attacked and killed Afghans outside Kabul airport’s Abbey Gate in recent hours. One minor was stabbed. A video posted online appears to show a Taliban fighter killing a special immigrant visa applicant. Another person familiar with the situation said Taliban members are beating people at the interior ministry, the location where U.S. officials have instructed some evacuees to go in advance of an escort to the airport. The Taliban were “beating [people] regardless of women, children, pregnant! They were even shooting [people] in feet, hands [and] back,” the person said.

 

UN-believable: There is little that illustrates the impotence of the international community better than this thread by POLITICO’s Ryan Heath on the U.N.’s response to its own Afghan staff being targeted by the Taliban. Ryan reports the U.N. has told its staff to “stay calm” and comply with house-to-house searches. The memo genuinely says: “Your calm and positive interaction with armed elements or de facto authorities should remain clear, honest and confident.” There are no options for sanctuary in U.N. compounds and no support to evacuate. So other than advice from U.N. bigwigs about having positive vibes when confronted by armed Taliban fighters, they’re on their own.

 

Must-watch: If you have 15 minutes, it is well worth watching this film from VICE News’ Ben C. Solomon and Adam Desiderio, who were embedded with elite Afghan forces in Kandahar when it fell to the Taliban. It is remarkable reporting from the front line that found an outnumbered Afghan military, hospitals being badly overwhelmed with wounded soldiers and civilians losing hope after American air support disappeared allowing the Taliban to advance. An important corrective to the Biden administration’s narrative that Afghan soldiers didn’t want to fight for their country. Warning: some graphic images.

[Section_31]

The amount of column inches being expended on this bloke with the animal sanctuary and not on how a bunch of blokes with Toyota flaybeds took over a country in six days and nobody cares is blowing my mind. Are we just firmly now ensconced in the Schofield and Willoughby age of what is and isn't newsworthy now? Maybe this is how we got here in the first place.

 

"First out, it's Pen Farthing and his collection of Springer spaniels.

 

After that, we've got the Afghan cricket team, followed by the under 16s female robotics champions, 2012."

 

 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

The amount of column inches being expended on this bloke with the animal sanctuary and not on how a bunch of blokes with Toyota flaybeds took over a country in six days and nobody cares is blowing my mind. Are we just firmly now ensconced in the Schofield and Willoughby age of what is and isn't newsworthy now? Maybe this is how we got here in the first place.

 

Deflection isn’t it? Take the gaze away from stuff that makes us look like cunts quick 

[SasaS]

5 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Must-watch: If you have 15 minutes, it is well worth watching this film from VICE News’ Ben C. Solomon and Adam Desiderio, who were embedded with elite Afghan forces in Kandahar when it fell to the Taliban. It is remarkable reporting from the front line that found an outnumbered Afghan military, hospitals being badly overwhelmed with wounded soldiers and civilians losing hope after American air support disappeared allowing the Taliban to advance. An important corrective to the Biden administration’s narrative that Afghan soldiers didn’t want to fight for their country. Warning: some graphic images.

Thanks for the link, that is very interesting.

 

I'd say though this video more or less confirms what we have been reading about the largely demoralized government forces, where only some elite commando units are putting up any kind of fight. Also, they are complaining that they are outnumbered, 20 people here 4 guys there, and then the commentary says there are thousands of soldiers pushing onto the planes after they have struck a safe passage deal with the Taliban. They look like a defeated army which doesn't know what they are fighting for, so this all must go much deeper than American abandonment.

 

There are actually so many things I don't understand here, the Taliban are clearly no military force, some ten thousand elite Afghan soldiers and a couple of thousands Americans with strong air support could have probably held Kabul for years, why did they allow them to enter town before most of evacuation was done, why no safe corridors on the ground, where are all those drones all of a sudden? That is all such a mess. 

[Arniepie]

8 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Thanks for the link, that is very interesting.

 

I'd say though this video more or less confirms what we have been reading about the largely demoralized government forces, where only some elite commando units are putting up any kind of fight. Also, they are complaining that they are outnumbered, 20 people here 4 guys there, and then the commentary says there are thousands of soldiers pushing onto the planes after they have struck a safe passage deal with the Taliban. They look like a defeated army which doesn't know what they are fighting for, so this all must go much deeper than American abandonment.

 

There are actually so many things I don't understand here, the Taliban are clearly no military force, some ten thousand elite Afghan soldiers and a couple of thousands Americans with strong air support could have probably held Kabul for years, why did they allow them to enter town before most of evacuation was done, why no safe corridors on the ground, where are all those drones all of a sudden? That is all such a mess. 

Someone suggested a few days ago the anericans had struck some sort of deal with them.

[SasaS]

9 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Someone suggested a few days ago the anericans had struck some sort of deal with them.

Possibly, but in exchange for what? A chaotic, shameful, reputation destroying hasty retreat?

[Champ]

3 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Deflection isn’t it? Take the gaze away from stuff that makes us look like cunts quick 

And yet and yet, I was reading an MP on Twitter earlier comparing the amount of correspondence she’s had about rescuing a few animals and that relating to the ongoing safety of countless Afghan people. 
Nation of animal lovers and…racists 

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

Possibly, but in exchange for what? A chaotic, shameful, reputation destroying hasty retreat?

An exchange not to be a home for terrorism?

I've absolutely no idea.

I think the Americans have wanted to cut their losses since trump was in power. Maybe they see some short term damage a fair trade for an endless conflict?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Reports of an explosion outside Kabul Airport. 

[Bjornebye]

Grim. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Sky are going with it being a suicide bomber.