The Conflict in Afghanistan

[Rico1304]

22 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Well there was an army general on the ground yesterday saying they were cooperating and there is the fact that 1000s of people have been evacuated but you seem to know better.

No you are right..every single taliban member is a maniac and every single afghan person detests them.

Nuanced thinking like that will see time through this I'm.sure.

1000’s have been evacuated and tens of thousands haven’t. They are preventing people from leaving and creating the conditions where women are throwing babies over barbed wire fences.  The paras on the ground are saying they are seeing things that will haunt them forever and without the armed forces no one would be getting out. I mean it’s not as if it’s all playing out on the fucking telly!!!  
 

Every single person who joins the Taliban is a religious maniac.  Are there any other murderous, raping regimes you diminish? Pol Pot was kind to his mother, say what you want about him but he never missed Mother’s Day. 
 

You can hate America without having to like the other side you know.  
 

Edit: article. 
 

https://www.ft.com/content/bfdb94a5-654b-4286-8da9-34c0ff3b88aa

[Bruce Spanner]

9 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

1000’s have been evacuated and tens of thousands haven’t. They are preventing people from leaving and creating the conditions where women are throwing babies over barbed wire fences.  The paras on the ground are saying they are seeing things that will haunt them forever and without the armed forces no one would be getting out. I mean it’s not as if it’s all playing out on the fucking telly!!!  
 

Every single person who joins the Taliban is a religious maniac.  Are there any other murderous, raping regimes you diminish? Pol Pot was kind to his mother, say what you want about him but he never missed Mother’s Day. 
 

You can hate America without having to like the other side you know.  
 

Edit: article. 
 

https://www.ft.com/content/bfdb94a5-654b-4286-8da9-34c0ff3b88aa

 

I'm pretty sure it's still the case, it was previously anyhows, that you have to be Hafiz, someone who can recite the Koran in full, to join.

 

ISIS didn't have this stipulation so attracted more loons and extremists.

 

It was one of the idological faultlines that ensured they wouldn't work together.

[Arniepie]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/the-rise-of-mullah-yaqoob-the-taliban-new-military-chief/30805362.html

 

Moderate is obviously a relative concept

[Arniepie]

18 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

1000’s have been evacuated and tens of thousands haven’t. They are preventing people from leaving and creating the conditions where women are throwing babies over barbed wire fences.  The paras on the ground are saying they are seeing things that will haunt them forever and without the armed forces no one would be getting out. I mean it’s not as if it’s all playing out on the fucking telly!!!  
 

Every single person who joins the Taliban is a religious maniac.  Are there any other murderous, raping regimes you diminish? Pol Pot was kind to his mother, say what you want about him but he never missed Mother’s Day. 
 

You can hate America without having to like the other side you know.  
 

Edit: article. 
 

https://www.ft.com/content/bfdb94a5-654b-4286-8da9-34c0ff3b88aa

I'm fairly sure I never said I liked them..I said they were there now and we are going to have to deal with itm

I also said they have a degree of support of support in the country which makes the option of simply removing them from power both unrealistic and difficult..as America have proven.

[Arniepie]

25 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

1000’s have been evacuated and tens of thousands haven’t. They are preventing people from leaving and creating the conditions where women are throwing babies over barbed wire fences.  The paras on the ground are saying they are seeing things that will haunt them forever and without the armed forces no one would be getting out. I mean it’s not as if it’s all playing out on the fucking telly!!!  
 

Every single person who joins the Taliban is a religious maniac.  Are there any other murderous, raping regimes you diminish? Pol Pot was kind to his mother, say what you want about him but he never missed Mother’s Day. 
 

You can hate America without having to like the other side you know.  
 

Edit: article. 
 

https://www.ft.com/content/bfdb94a5-654b-4286-8da9-34c0ff3b88aa

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/uk-says-taliban-cooperating-with-british-forces-in-evacuation/2339144

 

As I.said yesterday.. its how long this fragile agreement holds and what happens afterwards ,is key.

[Baltar]

Afghanistan is just a mess. Not entirely the fault of the Afghans of course, a big part of their problems were caused by the Cold War and then subsequent meddling by the Americans. But the Afghans have played their own part in this shit-show too. I think the rest of the world should just leave the Afghans to it now, stop interfering, it only ever makes things worse. If they get out of line and start harbouring international terrorists again, then we act. Otherwise, best to pretend that country doesn't exist.

[Gnasher]

Caught bits of this last night,  looked very good, Stewarts one of the few torys I can stomach,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2012/may/28/afghanistan-the-great-game-review

[Bjornebye]

Pretty sure pointing out that the Taliban weren't responsible for 9/11 isn't supporting or liking them. The Taliban are cunts. Let's not go round making stuff up though. They supposedly harboured the main culprit and as a result got invaded by a very pissed off USA. Let's not forget, he was eventually found in Abbottabad in Pakistan. 

[sir roger]

12 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:

I read that they had weapons and training but virtually none of the senior army ranks, civilian staff or logistical skills required to keep a western style army running. The yanks did all that and took it with them when they left. 
 

If they weren’t properly organised or even getting paid they couldn’t/wouldn’t put up much of a fight. 

The Yanks spent over 2 trillion dollars educating , equipping and training them , and while you can imagine a lot disappeared in dodgy ways , there must have been some positive input.

[Strontium]

14 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Am I in Stronts band of followers now? 
 

How the fuck did this happen?

 

It was all in the agreement you signed after you donned that robe and drank that special potion.

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

The Yanks spent over 2 trillion dollars educating , equipping and training them , and while you can imagine a lot disappeared in dodgy ways , there must have been some positive input.

From the video from Rory Smith the biggest problem wasn’t access to the weapons, machinery, training for that was all provided. It was the maintenance and logistics that they hadn’t trained the Afghans to do, so they had an airforce they couldn’t mobilise or  maintain on a day to day basis.

 

Crazy lack of thinking if true.

[sir roger]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

From the video from Rory Smith the biggest problem wasn’t access to the weapons, machinery, training for that was all provided. It was the maintenance and logistics that they hadn’t trained the Afghans to do, so they had an airforce they couldn’t mobilise or  maintain on a day to day basis.

 

Crazy lack of thinking if true.

Yes , I read that originally the yanks were stunned that literacy rates in the Afghan army were in single figures so they couldn't read manuals etc. but I can't believe this wasn't changed significantly over 20 years or so. I would also imagine that the equipment was all working when the Yanks left so can't understand why the Afghan army didn't at least start fighting even if some problems may have ensued later.

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Yes , I read that originally the yanks were stunned that literacy rates in the Afghan army were in single figures so they couldn't read manuals etc. but I can't believe this wasn't changed significantly over 20 years or so. I would also imagine that the equipment was all working when the Yanks left so can't understand why the Afghan army didn't at least start fighting even if some problems may have ensued later.

Most likely, but he was quite open about them not being able to use some of the weaponry, which is a huge concern.

 

This, along with the tribal allegiances etc would go some way to explain why they collapsed quicker than a deckchair in a hail storm.

[Arniepie]

14 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Yes , I read that originally the yanks were stunned that literacy rates in the Afghan army were in single figures so they couldn't read manuals etc. but I can't believe this wasn't changed significantly over 20 years or so. I would also imagine that the equipment was all working when the Yanks left so can't understand why the Afghan army didn't at least start fighting even if some problems may have ensued later.

Someone on here nailed it the other day.

The Taliban were fighting for a belief.

The army were fighting for money.

[SasaS]

28 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Most likely, but he was quite open about them not being able to use some of the weaponry, which is a huge concern.

 

This, along with the tribal allegiances etc would go some way to explain why they collapsed quicker than a deckchair in a hail storm.

Similar thing happened in Iraq with ISIS.

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Similar thing happened in Iraq with ISIS.

At least Romsfield and his cabal got paid though, right? 

[sir roger]

25 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Someone on here nailed it the other day.

The Taliban were fighting for a belief.

The army were fighting for money.

Makes sense but I would hope that I would fight to stop my wife and daughters be enslaved.

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Pretty sure pointing out that the Taliban weren't responsible for 9/11 isn't supporting or liking them. The Taliban are cunts. Let's not go round making stuff up though. They supposedly harboured the main culprit and as a result got invaded by a very pissed off USA. Let's not forget, he was eventually found in Abbottabad in Pakistan. 

I think it was pretty well documented that Al Qaida was integrated with the Taliban by the time the Americans launched the air strikes, Al Qaida carried out suicide bombings against high profile Afghan warlords that opposed or didn't play ball with the Taliban. It was not just about Bin Laden.

 

16 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Makes sense but I would hope that I would fight to stop my wife and daughters be enslaved.

The Taliban must have considerable popular support on the ground, otherwise they wouldn't have survived all past defeats and lasted for over 25 years. Also, people tend to forget that most of rural Afghanistan probably lived the same (conservative) way for decades or centuries, regardless of who is in power in Kabul, royalists, leftists, Communists, Mujahideen, Taliban, Western-sponsord post-Taliban nation builders. So not much change outside Kabul and the handful of bigger cities

 

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I think it was pretty well documented that Al Qaida was integrated with the Taliban by the time the Americans launched the air strikes, Al Qaida carried out suicide bombings against high profile Afghan warlords that opposed or didn't play ball with the Taliban. It was not just about Bin Laden.

 

The Taliban must have considerable popular support on the ground, otherwise they wouldn't have survived all past defeats and lasted for over 25 years. Also, people tend to forget that most of rural Afghanistan probably lived the same (conservative) way for decades or centuries, regardless of who is in power in Kabul, royalists, leftists, Communists, Mujahideen, Taliban, Western-sponsord post-Taliban nation builders. So not much change outside Kabul and the handful of bigger cities

 

I was typing the last part of your post as you posted.

 

Massive thing to consider.

 

I’m currently working in villages where Shria law was enacted for three decades, before a popular revolution, news of which hasn’t fully hit the villages yet, it’s going to take a long  time for those ghosts to disappear. 

[Arniepie]

26 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Makes sense but I would hope that I would fight to stop my wife and daughters be enslaved.

 as said above ,I think its clear they have considerable support throughout the country.

I heard someone on the radio trying to explain the Taliban and saying they are not 1 uniformed entity, they very much very from region to region,so whilst 1 area may not be too pleased with them,another will see them as much preferable to the inherently corrupt gmnt they replaced.

It's a very complex situation. 

[Arniepie]

1 aspect I dont get is the support in Pakistan for extremism ,yet I thought they were a close ally of the west?

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

1 aspect I dont get is the support in Pakistan for extremism ,yet I thought they were a close ally of the west?

Large parts are lawless and aligned with the Taliban.

 

A lot of finance comes through there.

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Large parts are lawless and aligned with the Taliban.

 

A lot of finance comes through there.

Ah ok.

But we view Pakistan conpletely different than Afghanistan?

In political terms.

[Jairzinho]

Just now, Arniepie said:

Ah ok.

But we view Pakistan conpletely different than Afghanistan?

In political terms.

Parts of it are like a country, very little of Afghanistan is.

[Bruce Spanner]

Just now, Arniepie said:

Ah ok.

But we view Pakistan conpletely different than Afghanistan?

In political terms.

Because large parts are functional and beneficial to the west.