The Conflict in Afghanistan

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Who else gets reparations?  Is it 

 

a) the government of the country

b) the government of the country 

c) the government of the country

 

at the moment thats (checks notes) the Taliban.  
 

He’s a fucking moron, unless he’s your dad why can’t you just accept he said something stupid.  

Sigh. Reparations are not exclusively paid to a government/ruling power. The term also means a compensation payment to a wronged party. Which is why the term has been used with reference to Afghanistan/the Brereton Report in Australia and the suggestions that there should be "reparations for Afghan families."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/09/scott-morrison-warned-australia-is-obliged-to-compensate-war-crimes-victims

[TheHowieLama]

13 minutes ago, Red74 said:

 

Ok - honestly I prefer Jen Psaki but...

[Em City]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

 

It's interesting on a, for want of a better word, spiritual level.

 

Basically, the West is all about money. Decisions are made for the sake of money and money motivates all actions.

 

So when the west encounters a society that isn't first and foremost motivated by money and consumerism, it doesn't know what to do.

 

It tries to demolish what was there before with tanks and bombs, then tries to colonise with McDonalds, and by paying informants, and paying people to join the police and army and civil service, but by and large the people you're trying to buy off aren't arsed about any of it. 

 

At that point you see the sparks flying out of western policy makers" heads because does not compute.

 

 

 

I'd imagine any financial incentive the U.S could offer to the Taliban would pale in comparison to the profits to be made from having full control over the country's plethora of poppy fields and the heroin they produce.

 

I think the real failure of Western interventionist foreign policy - certainly in the media and general public's view of such policies - is the tendency to view nations like Afghanistan and Iraq as uniform, fully formed nation states, as we understand counties in the West. The reality is they are nothing more than conglomerates of different groups with their own history, language, culture and interests with arbitrary borders drawn right through them. I can't profess to be an expert in Afghan history but this was certainly the case in Iraq where the exercise in 'nation building' was doomed to fail. 

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Em City said:

 

I'd imagine any financial incentive the U.S could offer to the Taliban would pale in comparison to the profits to be made from having full control over the country's plethora of poppy fields and the heroin they produce.

 

I think the real failure of Western interventionist foreign policy - certainly in the media and general public's view of such policies - is the tendency to view nations like Afghanistan and Iraq as uniform, fully formed nation states, as we understand counties in the West. The reality is they are nothing more than conglomerates of different groups with their own history, language, culture and interests with arbitrary borders drawn right through them. I can't profess to be an expert in Afghan history but this was certainly the case in Iraq where the exercise in 'nation building' was doomed to fail. 

 

Yeah spot on.

 

Also, conventional warfare is about destroying command and control and general infrastructure, and the Taliban don't have any, just like the Viet Cong never. You're basically using bombers, tanks and espionage against people hidden in crowds with hidden guns.

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Sigh. Reparations are not exclusively paid to a government/ruling power. The term also means a compensation payment to a wronged party. Which is why the term has been used with reference to Afghanistan/the Brereton Report in Australia and the suggestions that there should be "reparations for Afghan families."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/09/scott-morrison-warned-australia-is-obliged-to-compensate-war-crimes-victims

Oh yes, I’m absolutely positive that’s what he was taking about.  Fucking hell what a load of bollocks.  Excellent Googling though. 
 

Ha ha maybe no so excellent.  You didn’t read or click through that article did you?   Ha ha. Gnasheresque 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Oh yes, I’m absolutely positive that’s what he was taking about.  Fucking hell what a load of bollocks.  Excellent Googling though. 

Sigh. Again. 

 

Nobody claimed that he was talking about this example. I was merely highlighting that there's a difference between reparations and war reparations and that the former can be paid to wronged individuals, rather than a ruling power, as you mistakenly claimed. 

 

For example, reparations to Yazidi victims of ISIL: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/28/iraqs-reparations-law-for-yezidi-survivors-is-a-positive-step

 

Reparations to Indigenous Australians: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/australia/australia-reparations-stolen-generation-intl-hnk/index.html

 

As such, your claim that it's only "the government of the country" who gets reparations is:

 

a) wrong

b) wrong

c) wrong? 

 

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Sigh. Again. 

 

Nobody claimed that he was talking about this example. I was merely highlighting that there's a difference between reparations and war reparations and that the former can be paid to wronged individuals, rather than a ruling power, as you mistakenly claimed. 

 

For example, reparations to Yazidi victims of ISIL: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/28/iraqs-reparations-law-for-yezidi-survivors-is-a-positive-step

 

Reparations to Indigenous Australians: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/australia/australia-reparations-stolen-generation-intl-hnk/index.html

 

As such, your claim that it's only "the government of the country" who gets reparations is:

 

a) wrong

b) wrong

c) wrong? 

 

 

 

 

How are those reparations distributed?  Go on, click the links. Does the word ‘federal’ or ‘government scheme’ appear?  The examples you’ve given require the government to distribute the money. So,unless is your pal suggesting dropping Asda gift cards straight to these people he’s paying reparations to the government. 
 

I tell you what I admire your willingness to be completely disingenuous on his behalf and spend some quality time googling.   

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

How are those reparations distributed?  Go on, click the links. Does the word ‘federal’ or ‘government scheme’ appear?  The examples you’ve given require the government to distribute the money. So,unless is your pal suggesting dropping Asda gift cards straight to these people he’s paying reparations to the government. 
 

I tell you what I admire your willingness to be completely disingenuous on his behalf and spend some quality time googling.   

Christ. 

 

I haven't clicked the links. As it doesn't matter how those two schemes are paid. These two schemes don't dictate how other schemes are payable. There's no set rules. More complete nonsense. 

[Curly]

10 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Sigh. Again. 

 

Nobody claimed that he was talking about this example. I was merely highlighting that there's a difference between reparations and war reparations and that the former can be paid to wronged individuals, rather than a ruling power, as you mistakenly claimed. 

 

For example, reparations to Yazidi victims of ISIL: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/28/iraqs-reparations-law-for-yezidi-survivors-is-a-positive-step

 

Reparations to Indigenous Australians: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/australia/australia-reparations-stolen-generation-intl-hnk/index.html

 

As such, your claim that it's only "the government of the country" who gets reparations is:

 

a) wrong

b) wrong

c) wrong? 

 

 

 

 

Reparations to wronged members of the public is quite reliant on being able to get those payments to them though. Pretty sure the old taliban there would be  intercepting anything sent, so it can’t be a literal suggestion in that tweet. It was just a pretty vacant tweet that would drum up support from certain factions. Moral grandstanding at its finest.

 

Taking political leanings out of it, there will 100% be people in the uk and America who have criticised the western occupancy and attacks on Afghanistan over the last 20 years, who are now some of the people deriding the decision to leave. And there does seem to be a very regular angle of argument made, that skips out what fucking vermin those fucking rats performing all of these horrendous acts are. Blame often misses that step and lands at western doorsteps. I’m not a fan of our government, but it puts into context the levels of evil collectives can operate at.

[Anubis]

Raab acquitting himself as well as usual, I see.

 

 

 

 

[Captain Howdy]

Richard Burgon ha ha ha fucking hell

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

1 minute ago, belarus said:

Reparations to wronged members of the public is quite reliant on being able to get those payments to them though. Pretty sure the old taliban there would be  intercepting anything sent, so it can’t be a literal suggestion in that tweet. It was just a pretty vacant tweet that would drum up support from certain factions. Moral grandstanding at its finest.

 

Taking political leanings out of it, there will 100% be people in the uk and America who have criticised the western occupancy and attacks on Afghanistan over the last 20 years, who are now some of the people deriding the decision to leave. And there does seem to be a very regular angle of argument made, that skips out what fucking vermin those fucking rats performing all of these horrendous acts are. Blame often misses that step and lands at western doorsteps. I’m not a fan of our government, but it puts into context the levels of evil collectives can operate at.

Yes. I'm not really arguing about the merits of such a scheme or the reality of implementing it on the ground. I'm not even arguing that Burgon didn't definitely mean giving money to the Taliban. He might've meant that. But, probably not. 

 

My issue is with the jump to the most dramatic interpretation of his ambiguous comment re: reparations - that of handing a big bag of money to the Taliban - and refusing to accept that his tweet could've possibly meant anything else, even if the word reparations has a few different meanings which would be equally applicable to the situation Burgon was discussing. 

 

It's just a bad faith, troll tactic - Oooh, look at the mad lefty suggesting something really mad, even though he's not necessarily saying what we're claiming he is. 

[Stickman]

8 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Raab acquitting himself as well as usual, I see.

 

 

 

 

There’s never a fridge around when you need one 

[Rico1304]

5 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Yes. I'm not really arguing about the merits of such a scheme or the reality of implementing it on the ground. I'm not even arguing that Burgon didn't definitely mean giving money to the Taliban. He might've meant that. But, probably not. 

 

My issue is with the jump to the most dramatic interpretation of his ambiguous comment re: reparations - that of handing a big bag of money to the Taliban - and refusing to accept that his tweet could've possibly meant anything else, even if the word reparations has a few different meanings which would be equally applicable to the situation Burgon was discussing. 

 

It's just a bad faith, troll tactic - Oooh, look at the mad lefty suggesting something really mad, even though he's not necessarily saying what we're claiming he is. 

Yes. It’s certainly unfair to read the words he said and point out why they are stupid.  Especially when he’s playing to his crowd.  I mean other people can’t do it.  But our side can.  
 

Hilarious that you provide links to ‘prove’ your point then admit you won’t even read them.  

[Kepler-186]

A decent read on what’s happening to Afghan journalists and what Western journalists are doing now the Taliban have retaken the country. 

 

Apologies for the long link below. 
 

https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/afghanistan_press_freedom_taliban_kabul.php?utm_source=CJR+Daily+News&utm_campaign=001e707d81-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_11_11_06_33_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9c93f57676-001e707d81-174874330&mc_cid=001e707d81&mc_eid=c915340e6d

 

 

[Curly]

4 minutes ago, Stickman said:

There’s never a fridge around when you need one 

Fuck me. What a fucking knob head that man is

[A Red]

5 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

 

No mention of the murdering backward cunts but a child like assertation that the victims should be given money. Top twittering.

[Captain Howdy]

 

[Bjornebye]

Yeah good idea for a serving MP to start calling them backward cunts when it's quite clear the diplomatic route with them is probably the best chance the people have got without another war. Fucking hell let's get the PM on calling them all barbaric twats, Biden peering down a camera calling them rabid gobshites .... then try and get them to agree to let women go to school..... 

[A Red]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Yeah good idea for a serving MP to start calling them backward cunts when it's quite clear the diplomatic route with them is probably the best chance the people have got without another war. Fucking hell let's get the PM on calling them all barbaric twats, Biden peering down a camera calling them rabid gobshites .... then try and get them to agree to let women go to school..... 

You took from my post he should have called them backward cunts?

 

Do you not think he should have at least mentioned them in a teeny little way?

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, A Red said:

You took from my post he should have called them backward cunts?

 

Do you not think he should have at least mentioned them in a teeny little way?

The bit where you said "No mention of the murdering backward cunts" maybe? What should he have said? 

[A Red]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

The bit where you said "No mention of the murdering backward cunts" maybe? What should he have said? 

Nope. I called them that, I didn't say he should have called them that. I said there was no mention of them.

 

Labelling them as murderous would be accurate and fair, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, A Red said:

Nope. I called them that, I didn't say he should have called them that. I said there was no mention of them.

 

Labelling them as murderous would be accurate and fair, wouldn't you agree?

 

No, my opinion is as I said above, diplomacy right now would be better all things considered. Despite what me, you and the rest of the world think of them. 

[Kepler-186]

“The British ran a benevolent empire, old chap!”
 

 

[Em City]

1 hour ago, Anubis said:

Raab acquitting himself as well as usual, I see.

 

 

 

 

 

Incredible to think Raab was the foreign secretary of one of the most powerful nations in the world.

 

You would find greater insight at a regional university debate piss up.