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The Conflict in Afghanistan

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2 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Where does he say that exactly?

I could have sworn he mentions protecting refugees?

He does.  After reparations. Who else gets the reparations? 

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3 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:


I was talking about this earlier. What we’re they thinking was gonna happen? Mental. 

 

I was reading the other day about the slaves captured in Africa and taken to the Americas. When they be allowed above board for exercise and fresh air once a day many would just leap overboard. No matter how minuscule the chance of survival, it still beat what they were enduring. I'm sure many Afghans feel/felt the same level of hopelessness. 

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Even if you take the most generous of interpretations (by that I mean the wrong one). Does he think there may be an issue with further incentivising refugees to leave Afghanistan?  

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The Taliban are currently holding a press conference live on the BBC with a news ticker underneath saying Bob Dylan is accused of sexual abuse. Never imagined I'd see either.

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10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

He does.  After reparations. Who else gets the reparations? 

So to clarify.. if you think the invasion wasnt a roaring success and are concerned about the refugees..you implicity support the Taliban?

 

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4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

"We're really sorry we tried to stop you imposing brutal theocracy on the long-suffering citizens of Afghanistan. Here is an unlimited amount of money to spend to your heart's delight."

 

What is your grand vision, or rather what is the vision of the Lib Dems, when it comes to Afghanistan and other countries like it where the U.K deems it necessary to deploy military intervention?

 

Not trolling, I am genuinely curious.

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Just now, M_B said:

The Taliban are currently holding a press conference live on the BBC with a news ticker  underneath saying Bob Dylan is accused of sexual abuse. Never imagined I'd see either.

O' the times they are a....

 

...nah I couldn't.

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Let's remind ourselves what Ed Davey said ...... 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/sep/20/afghanistan-liberal-democrats

 

It's time for a 'political surge' in Afghanistan, say Lib Dems

Lib Dem foreign affairs spokesman Ed Davey calls for a new diplomacy focusing on 'people, not just governments', which would include 'tea with the Taliban' in Afghanistan

Andrew Sparrow, senior political correspondent

@AndrewSparrow

Sun 20 Sep 2009 14.06 BST

2

Britain and America should lead a "political surge" in Afghanistan aimed at building peace in the country from the bottom up, the Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman, Edward Davey, said today.

Claiming that it was "time for tea with the Taliban", Davey said that the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan would never be defeated by military force alone.

Davey made his comments in a wide-ranging speech on foreign policy that called for a new approach to diplomacy, focusing on Britain's relations with the citizens of other countries and not just their leaders.

There should be a "new foreign policy dictum for the 21st century if we are to promote ethical foreign policy", Davey said. He described the new approach as being "about people, not just governments".

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Davey went on: "Presidents and prime ministers change, and with them their policies. Britain's foreign relations, with any country, should be measured by how well they build and cement friendship between peoples, not the short-term fortunes of today's political leader."

Davey said that Afghanistan illustrated why it was so important for diplomacy to engage with the views of people in foreign countries as well as their leaders. Although the Lib Dems supported military action in Afghanistan, they did not think that it would bring peace on its own.

There had to be a "political surge" as well as a miliary surge, Davey said. And he argued that it should have two elements.

First, Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, should form a government of national unity with his main challenger, Abdullah Abdullah, Davey said. "They cannot expect British servicemen and women to risk their lives, day after day, if they aren't prepared to take a risk for peace."

Second, Davey called for "tea with the Taliban", and for talks with other Afghan leaders too.

"Tea is actually the most potent drug in Afghanistan if you want peace. It's how peace deals have been struck in Afghanistan down the ages.

"For you don't win wars by fighting in Afghanistan. Witness the Soviets. Witness the three Anglo-Afghan wars fought by the British empire. Witness Alexander the Great.

"In Afghanistan, you win wars by getting your opponents – or some of them at least – to defect. To defect to your side.

Davey went on: "Peace in Afghanistan will only be built bottom up, village by village, tribal leader by tribal leader."

 

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3 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

So to clarify.. if you think the invasion wasnt a roaring success and are concerned about the refugees..you implicity support the Taliban?

 

No, you didn’t clarify anything.  Being critical is fine, being worried about refugees and those left behind is normal.  
If you think the Taliban deserve reparations you are a fucking idiot.  About as stupid as it’s possible to be.  

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4 minutes ago, Em City said:

What is your grand vision, or rather what is the vision of the Lib Dems, when it comes to Afghanistan and other countries like it where the U.K deems it necessary to deploy military intervention?

 

Not trolling, I am genuinely curious.

 

I would say that if you are going to intervene militarily to depose a dreadful regime, such as a regime harbouring a terrorist who has killed thousands of your people, then you ought to have a really excellent plan for what you do after you've deposed them. And you also should be prepared to commit to seeing your plan through to the end rather than fucking off halfway through when you get bored, like the Americans have just done, because you have a moral responsibility to do so.

 

I've no idea what the Lib Dems are saying about it, but I've never believed that supporting liberty means only supporting liberty within your own borders. Human rights are supposed to be universal.

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11 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

If you think the Taliban deserve reparations you are a fucking idiot.  About as stupid as it’s possible to be.  

 

To think that thirty years ago the people of Leeds East were represented by the mighty intellect of Denis Healey, and now they send a dribbling moron to Westminster.

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16 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Knew it would be Corbyns fault somehow. 

Absolute nap

I could have sworn we invaded  Afghanistan to kill bin laden and in revenge for 9/11?the axis of evil!

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9 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I've no idea what the Lib Dems are saying about it, but I've never believed that supporting liberty means only supporting liberty within your own borders. Human rights are supposed to be universal.

You don't know what your own party are saying about it but you deliberately mis-interpret what a Labour Mp has said about it to score points against Corbyn? 

 

Hmm..... 

 

No comment on Ed Daveys comments I posted I see. Convenient. Shove your Corbyn witch-hunt up your arse. 

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39 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Let's remind ourselves what Ed Davey said ...... 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/sep/20/afghanistan-liberal-democrats

 

It's time for a 'political surge' in Afghanistan, say Lib Dems

Lib Dem foreign affairs spokesman Ed Davey calls for a new diplomacy focusing on 'people, not just governments', which would include 'tea with the Taliban' in Afghanistan

Andrew Sparrow, senior political correspondent

@AndrewSparrow

Sun 20 Sep 2009 14.06 BST

2

Britain and America should lead a "political surge" in Afghanistan aimed at building peace in the country from the bottom up, the Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman, Edward Davey, said today.

Claiming that it was "time for tea with the Taliban", Davey said that the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan would never be defeated by military force alone.

Davey made his comments in a wide-ranging speech on foreign policy that called for a new approach to diplomacy, focusing on Britain's relations with the citizens of other countries and not just their leaders.

There should be a "new foreign policy dictum for the 21st century if we are to promote ethical foreign policy", Davey said. He described the new approach as being "about people, not just governments".

Advertisement

Davey went on: "Presidents and prime ministers change, and with them their policies. Britain's foreign relations, with any country, should be measured by how well they build and cement friendship between peoples, not the short-term fortunes of today's political leader."

Davey said that Afghanistan illustrated why it was so important for diplomacy to engage with the views of people in foreign countries as well as their leaders. Although the Lib Dems supported military action in Afghanistan, they did not think that it would bring peace on its own.

There had to be a "political surge" as well as a miliary surge, Davey said. And he argued that it should have two elements.

First, Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, should form a government of national unity with his main challenger, Abdullah Abdullah, Davey said. "They cannot expect British servicemen and women to risk their lives, day after day, if they aren't prepared to take a risk for peace."

Second, Davey called for "tea with the Taliban", and for talks with other Afghan leaders too.

"Tea is actually the most potent drug in Afghanistan if you want peace. It's how peace deals have been struck in Afghanistan down the ages.

"For you don't win wars by fighting in Afghanistan. Witness the Soviets. Witness the three Anglo-Afghan wars fought by the British empire. Witness Alexander the Great.

"In Afghanistan, you win wars by getting your opponents – or some of them at least – to defect. To defect to your side.

Davey went on: "Peace in Afghanistan will only be built bottom up, village by village, tribal leader by tribal leader."

 

It appears that waffling utter shite is quite the trend amongst Lib Dems. 

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4 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

It appears that waffling utter shite is quite the trend amongst Lib Dems. 

Yeah well they started it with a lie why not continue chatting utter shite eh? 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/john-whitelegg-the-myth-of-mr-kennedy-s-opposition-to-the-war-730741.html

 

 

 

But, lets all point fingers at an absolute humanitarian who actually does believe that human rights are supposed to be universal and has spent a career lobbying that cause despite all the lies and rhetoric from those who like to pretend they believe that sentiment but we all know they don't. 

 

 

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Also that 'dribbling moron from Leeds east' has a much more humane voting record than the leader of the Lib Dems

 

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25391/richard_burgon/leeds_east/votes

 

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10155/edward_davey/kingston_and_surbiton/votes

 

I don't even need to check to see that Corbyn will. Human Rights are Universal and all that. 

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28 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I would say that if you are going to intervene militarily to depose a dreadful regime, such as a regime harbouring a terrorist who has killed thousands of your people, then you ought to have a really excellent plan for what you do after you've deposed them. And you also should be prepared to commit to seeing your plan through to the end rather than fucking off halfway through when you get bored, like the Americans have just done, because you have a moral responsibility to do so.

 

I've no idea what the Lib Dems are saying about it, but I've never believed that supporting liberty means only supporting liberty within your own borders. Human rights are supposed to be universal.

 

Let's be charitable and assume the Afghanistan invasion was for moral reasons. They've spent 20 years, $83 billion and thousands of lives - it's hardly been a half arsed effort. The Afghani army nominally outnumbers the Taliban five to one, they have an air force where the Taliban has none and they have billions of dollars worth of state of the art equipment and yet they still melted away in a matter of weeks. If Vietnam has shown anything, it's that a corrupt, puppet regime has no chance of resisting a determined, unified force with an ideological purpose once the superpower that supports that regime directly withdraws its manpower.

 

There's no viable exit strategy for Afghanistan, there never was. If the U.S and U.K had humanitarian goals, perhaps they should start by stop seeking arms to the Saudis or backing Israel's construction of illegal settlements.

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It’s honestly not a cult. Really it’s not. 
 

A stupid tweet by a stupid MP results in a torrent of whataboutery and the eventual inclusion of Israel. It’s very funny to watch. 

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7 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Somebody said something disingenuous about Richard Burgeon and tried to further slander people who support Jeremy Corbyn. Quick, hand the hypocrite his arse ! 

Absolutely! 

 

cc40fd5d0a6f5757afd7d42111c4de9e.gif

 

 

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Just now, Rico1304 said:

It’s honestly not a cult. Really it’s not. 
 

A stupid tweet by a stupid MP results in a torrent of whataboutery and the eventual inclusion of Israel. It’s very funny to watch. 

You'll be on about chicks with dicks any minute 

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