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Stu Monty

The Latin America thread

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2 hours ago, moof said:

Where have I ever suggested I would support a military coup in response to “electoral fraud”? You’re a fucking idiot, I’m done with you. 

 

You're the one moaning about a "democratically elected" leader being ousted even when there's evidence of massive electoral fraud. You can't even admit that Morales is not a legitimately elected leader.

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Morales has requested, and been granted, asylum in Mexico.

 

He's on his way there now.

 

Another tick in the "coup" column, I suppose.

 

But we'll have to wait and see who takes power, and how they take it, to really know.

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13 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

You can call it whatever you want. Someone who tried to rig an election was removed from power. The end.

Removed from power by the army.

 

Nothing to worry our pretty little heads about here.

 

As you were, freedom-lovers.

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7 hours ago, polymerpunkah said:

 

But we'll have to wait and see who takes power, and how they take it, to really know.

No one is "taking" power - Mesa's supporters claimed victory in the election. He was president of Bolivia before Morales.

 

It is pretty much a repeat of Venezuela in that Morales refused to have the election re-done after pretty much everyone around cried foul.

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4 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I think SD's guiding principle here is "if Corbyn opposes it, it must be OK".

 

No, my guiding principle is that if someone commits massive electoral fraud, then they're not democratically elected, and have no right to be in power.

 

Let me know if you're still having trouble with that concept.

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12 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

No, my guiding principle is that if someone commits massive electoral fraud, then they're not democratically elected, and have no right to be in power.

 

Let me know if you're still having trouble with that concept.

And the military have the right to take over?

 

Please, Captain Freedom, explain to me what the fuck is in any way liberal or democratic about a military coup, because I've got to admit I'm having a shitload of trouble with that concept. 

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3 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

And the military have the right to take over?

 

The deputy head of the Senate, Jeanine Áñez, has said she will take over as interim president until new elections are held.

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10 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

And the military have the right to take over?

 

Please, Captain Freedom, explain to me what the fuck is in any way liberal or democratic about a military coup, because I've got to admit I'm having a shitload of trouble with that concept. 

 

6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

The deputy head of the Senate, Jeanine Áñez, has said she will take over as interim president until new elections are held.

 

'Nuff said.

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8 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Hadn't Morales already agreed to new elections, y'know, without the military deposing anyone?

I think he resigned then said there should be new election. That was Sunday -- Monday he left the country out of fear of protestestors, not the military.

The police play a big part - they joined in with protests -- the military has not.

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

And the military have the right to take over?

 

Please, Captain Freedom, explain to me what the fuck is in any way liberal or democratic about a military coup, because I've got to admit I'm having a shitload of trouble with that concept. 

 

That's because you ain't notin' but a knee jerk, argues Ms Marsden.
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/evo-morales-bolivia-protests-corbyn-president-police-labour-socialism-a9198256.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1UW9pxp5PjQOY3QF_F_DaKhxL3ubPmjEPnv1je-7p9aD939MsdYd3ZQyE#Echobox=1573489315

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42 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I think he resigned then said there should be new election. That was Sunday -- Monday he left the country out of fear of protestestors, not the military.

The police play a big part - they joined in with protests -- the military has not.

Do you have a good link, I've yet to find an explanation why exactly has he fled the country so suddenly.

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27 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Do you have a good link, I've yet to find an explanation why exactly has he fled the country so suddenly.

Why do you think?

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1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

I think he resigned then said there should be new election. That was Sunday -- Monday he left the country out of fear of protestestors, not the military.

The police play a big part - they joined in with protests -- the military has not.

He called for new elections before he resigned.

 

After he called for new elections, the military suggested he should resign.

 

Which he did.

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38 minutes ago, moof said:

Why do you think?

 

11 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

@SasaS I imagine he feared for his life. The Mexican minister tweeted his life was now safe so...

 

He had already left the capital and was presumably safe among his supporters, no? 

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2 minutes ago, polymerpunkah said:

He called for new elections before he resigned.

 

After he called for new elections, the military suggested he should resign.

 

Which he did.

I think that he didn't call for new elections until the OAS made it's announcement Sunday 

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6 minutes ago, polymerpunkah said:

Is there any suggestion that he's squirreled away a load of ill-gotten gains in foreign bank accounts?

 

Well, they don't have any oil so there are no ill gotten gains.

 

They do have coca though. 

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On 11/11/2019 at 09:56, SasaS said:


Great to hear the perspective of someone with actual ties with the country, but I though you were Brazilian?

It's complicated. I was born in Brasil but we moved to Bolivia when I was 7. I have Brasilian citizenship but not Bolivian, though I think of myself as Bolivian as I spent most of my formative years there.

 

As for the whole debate on what's going on, I think it's clear that there was no good solution to the problem. Morales is gone - that is good. The question now is who is going to take over, and how long before we have real elections?

 

If it goes badly, then I suppose it will turn into a coup. If, for example, elections are not held promptly, or if they are ignored or manipulated, then the word "coup" is probably fair. If, however, as I and all Bolivians hope, the elections are called promptly and they are carried out without vote-rigging, then I think "coup" isn't the right word.

 

For right now, I don't care about any of it - who becomes president, what major power they're in the pocket of, none of it. For me, right now, the only thing I care about is the safety of my mother. She is a tough woman, been through a LOT in her life, so suffice it to say that I was alarmed in the extreme when she sent me her updated last will and testament last night.

 

I tried to call but couldn't get through, then on Whatsapp she said that armed gangs are taking advantage of the chaos and lack of police presence (all the police are distracted by the protests and riots) to move through neighborhoods terrorising people and looting. People have died, homes have been burned, and a lot of families have lost everything.

 

Apparently the men at the school where she teaches organised a defense of the school, so she stayed there to wait out the night with the other teachers. Twice violent gangs actually attacked (trying to get in to steal everything in the school) but when the men went out to confront them with clubs and machetes, they backed down and went off to look for an easier target.

 

I was able to get a message from her this morning with all of that info, and the fact that everyone in the school is OK. The interim president is promising to activate the National Guard to patrol the streets and restore order. My hope is that for everyday Bolivians, life will return to normal as quickly as possible and they will be safe.

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