The Latin America thread

[Jose Jones]

Chavez is a bit of a loon though. I mean that Hola Presidente TV show he has where he fires questions at all the cabinet ministers and shouts at them when they can’t answer isn’t exactly restrained statesman like behaviour. I saw a documentary on Venezuela a while back (which might have been made by western imperialist pigs) where Chavez had flown over some mountains about an hour away from Caracas and decided on the spot it was a great place to build a new socialist city. His plan was to move some people from the shanty towns in Caracas to this new city. The problem was that no-one wanted to go and they ended up with about 30 half built houses in the middle of nowhere. It was pretty ridiculous.

I think he plays the politics in Venezuela very well in that he’s really the first person to mobilise the poor and stand up for them, and he also plays the left-leaning west pretty well by being anti-American. You mention the loon in Iran – but Chavez has pledged closer allegiance with Ahmadinejad when he visited Iran 3 weeks ago.

[Section_31]

I'm baffled why you're baffled. The USA has the potential to be an incredible force for good and progress in the world, instead the small clique that drive its foreign policy use much of that power for narrow selfish purposes. Is it too much to ask for that they actually followed the values they espouse ?

 

Long-term it has to be in the interests of the general population of the USA to support progressive forces in other countries that bring equitable development to their populations rather than the corrupt and brutal regimes they often favour. There won't be peace without justice.

 

Your explanation of how 'countries' serve their own interests sounds a bit like Thatcher's 'no such thing as society'.

 

I don't disagree with any of that other than the Thatcher comment, I'm just saying I don't see why people are surprised, or why people expect anything different than they do from any other power with the ability to dominate.

 

The USA is all about money (the business of America is business) so it has spent most of the last 60 years fighting anything which will stop it making money. I've been reading a bit about organised crime lately, and the CIA are virtually the fathers of the modern day Mafia in Italy, the Triads, and the Yakuza. All were supported and had their leaders released to 'fight communism'.

 

But

 

Is the way the USA acts any worse than if you picked any country in the world at random and made them a superpower? Even a relatively benign nation like, say, Norway? If you sprinkled magic dust on it, made it the world's most powerful nation, but then gradually threatened its position with the prospect of rival philosophies or nations emerging, how long before we saw Norgie aircraft carriers bearing down on them bitches?

 

I'm not saying this is the way things should be, I'm just sayig that IMO - it is.

[Catch22]

I didn't need to. I did, but I'm already pretty well versed on events over there. I'm not daft enough to think that suddenly holding your tongue about a military coup that rids the continent of another left-leaning leader can be described as being damned when you don't interfere. And I don't think it's tin foil hat territory to be wondering if, as with pretty much every other coup on the continent, the CIA didn't have their fingers in pies somewhere along the way.

 

I completely agree that the US should look after their own interests, that makes sense, but if they want to continue preaching to the world on the values of freedom and democracy then they need to follow those words up with action or people will, quite rightly, start to see their arses with them.

 

Anyhow. Read something today that I thought might be really interesting to a few people here. It's an interview in The Nation with Chavez discussing plenty of different issues, with one of them being Obama.

 

There Is Much to Do: An Interview With Hugo Chavez

 

It makes me laugh when people throw him in the same bracket as people like that Iranian loon; turning up to the UN and denying holocausts again. Here's to hoping that Venezuela can keep playing banker for the region for long enough to see if some real social democracy can flourish.

 

 

When you save a country from the left, you are supporting freedom!

[Section_31]

When you save a country from the left, you are supporting freedom!

 

[Strontium]

When you save a country from the left, you are supporting freedom!

 

 

Don't be silly Catch - everyone knows that real freedom is having your business seized by the government because you are unable to adhere to state-mandated fixed pricing, or having the court system packed with judges who are cronies of the president, or, indeed, having your television stations punished for showing foreign cartoons.

[Stu Monty]

Don't be silly Catch - everyone knows that real freedom is having your business seized by the government because you are unable to adhere to state-mandated fixed pricing, or having the court system packed with judges who are cronies of the president, or, indeed, having your television stations punished for showing foreign cartoons.

 

We could both play that game. I could say that real freedom was having your elections rigged, being dissapeared for forming a union, being murdered for dissenting in the press or having your whole tribe slaughtered because you're on top of oil that BP want. All of which we can find examples of in the exploits of free-market fundamentalism.

 

But it's a bit more complex than that, isn't it.

[Section_31]

Saw this before, looks well worth a watch.

 

[YOUTUBE]76IxxapAHQo[/YOUTUBE]

[Kevin D]

So, Chavez?

[Mr. Beast]

this website is ace:

http://www.narconews.com/

[Stu Monty]

So, Chavez?

 

From what I heard a few weeks ago it sounded like he was being a bit of a bellend over Syria. Not really kept up on it though.

[Strontium]

Still insisting that the US has given him cancer, isn't he?

 

Lunatic.

[VladimirIlyich]

Still insisting that the US has given him cancer, isn't he?

 

Lunatic.

 

If looneys are the type that charge 10p a gallon of petrol,have 95% literacy rates and pump billions of pounds/dollars etc into a free health service while spotting a 'Pandejo' in the white house then keep them coming.

[Stu Monty]

Still insisting that the US has given him cancer, isn't he?

 

Lunatic.

 

That's if he actually believes that and isn't just antagonising and demonising the US, as he often quite likes to.

 

Tim Farron, Liberal Democrat, on the other hand, actually believes that there's a loving and all-powerful interventionist God. Hopefully not the same God that told Bush to go to war and eases Blair's worries when he speaks to him at night.

 

The fucking lunatic.

[Strontium]

Chavez also believes in that God, so he's still more of a lunatic.

[md1892]

If looneys are the type that charge 10p a gallon of petrol,have 95% literacy rates and pump billions of pounds/dollars etc into a free health service while spotting a 'Pandejo' in the white house then keep them coming.

 

Well said.

 

Although the is absolutely no room for religion in politics, as SD will agree no doubt.

[Kevin D]

Thought this was as good a time as any to bump this thread.

[Strontium]

Even Uncle Noam, to give him his dues, had lost patience long ago with Chavez's autocracy

 

Noam Chomsky criticises old friend Hugo Chávez for 'assault' on democracy | World news | The Observer

 

Splendid piece in Slate which says it all

 

Hugo Chavez’s legacy: The former Venezuelan president was not the typical South American strongman. - Slate Magazine

 

What has Chávez bequeathed his fellow Venezuelans? The hard facts are unmistakable: The oil-rich South American country is in shambles. It has one of the world’s highest rates of inflation, largest fiscal deficits, and fastest growing debts. Despite a boom in oil prices, the country’s infrastructure is in disrepair—power outages and rolling blackouts are common—and it is more dependent on crude exports than when Chávez arrived. Venezuela is the only member of OPEC that suffers from shortages of staples such as flour, milk, and sugar. Crime and violence skyrocketed during Chávez’s years. On an average weekend, more people are killed in Caracas than in Baghdad and Kabul combined. (In 2009, there were 19,133 murders in Venezuela, more than four times the number of a decade earlier.) When the grisly statistics failed to improve, the Venezuelan government simply stopped publishing the figures.

[neko]

Mexico is the place to be, amigos.

[Kevin D]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZajyVas4Jg

 

Best documentary I've seen in a long, long while. Just remarkable.

[Byrnie]

Yeah, watched that recently. Great documentary.

[Strontium]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZajyVas4Jg

 

Best documentary I've seen in a long, long while. Just remarkable.

Economical with the truth, though. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts.

 

Many of the omissions and distortions are addressed by this documentary:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Ray_of_a_Lie

 

[Kevin D]

Economical with the truth, though. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts.

 

Many of the omissions and distortions are addressed by this documentary:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Ray_of_a_Lie

 

 

I had a sense it was biased from the outset and they used "neo-liberal" about 10 times in the first 2 minutes which let you know what you were in for. Some of those are pretty egregious and misleading. That said, I don't think any of their omissions and distortions are hanging offences, certainly I don't think they changed the substance of the documentary, or lessen the drama. 

 

I am still amazed at that point, after the coup, when the journalists were on TV openly discussing how they had conspired to overthrow the government. Never seen anything like it. 

[Kevin D]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/argentina-details-easing-of-dollar-control/2014/01/27/836bae92-8772-11e3-a760-a86415d0944d_story.html?tid=auto_complete

 

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — Argentines will be able to buy up to $2,000 per month if they’re up to date with their tax payments, the government said on Monday during the release of the first details of its easing of currency controls.

 

Argentina announced on Friday it was relaxing restrictions on the purchase of U.S. dollars. The decision was forced by double-digit inflation and the hardest drop in the local peso’s value in 12 years.

 

Wage-earners will also be able to save in dollars. But Capitanich cleared up that the Argentine tax rate on credit card purchases made in dollars abroad will not be lowered to 20 percent from the current 35 percent, as he had announced last week.

 

Argentina is suffering a shortage of greenbacks due to one of the world’s highest inflation rates, low foreign investment and the country’s inability to tap global credit markets after a massive debt default during its 2001-2002 economic crisis.

 

The center-left government relies on Central Bank reserves to meet its debt payments abroad and finance infrastructure at home. But the reserves have plunged to about $29.5 billion, their lowest level in more than seven years.

 

The tough currency restrictions that began in 2011 have backfired by pushing many Argentines to the black market in search for dollars, and in turn, stoking inflation, which is estimated at around 30 percent.

 

After Friday’s announcement, the black market dollar weakened to 11.8 from 13 pesos, while the official rate held roughly stable at an average 8 pesos to the dollar

 

[SammyAftershave]

Hey Strontium Dog, admittedly we may have had our disagreements in the past but they have mostly they have concerned with you blowing out of your arse and your indefensible liberal fanny politics involved on these shores. Have you actually 'Travelled' or ever spent ANY time in Latin America or are you simply blowing further similar fanciful bollocks out of your Herb Albert-like trumpet/trombone extremity? (and yes I have spent time there in both Spanish n Portuguese territories) If you're not in, you're out. Nondescript politics are most often seen for what they are in that part of the world in my experience, that is a luxury and hard to carry unless you're Daddy's a General or something similar. Not really a place for fanny merchants.Wind your neck in I would say.

[Strontium]

Instead of levelling personal attacks on me, perhaps you can address what you believe are factual inaccuracies in my posts. And then kindly take a long walk off a short pier.