The Latin America thread

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Didn't Morales himself came to power after leading mass protests against the president which then stepped down so the elections could be held?
 

Still don't understand the sudden flight to Mexico.

If you read above you will see that military and far-right types are dragging his supporters out of their homes. Imagine what they would do to him. 

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Didn't Morales himself came to power after leading mass protests against the president which then stepped down so the elections could be held?

 

I think you'll find that those were the right kind of violent protest. An easy mistake to make, given how utterly identical they are.

[aRdja]

Interesting statement from Chomsky on this.

 

https://peoplesdispatch.org/2019/11/09/we-stand-against-the-coup-in-bolivia-statement-from-noam-chomsky-and-vijay-prashad/

 

In Bolivia, a coup d’état is brewing against the elected government led by Evo Morales. Sections of the armed forces – including the police – have openly indicated that they are willing to allow fascistic militia groups to attack the presidential palace in La Paz. This is a very serious situation.

Evo Morales has invited the four major parties to sit down and talk about the way forward for Bolivian democracy. He has asked for the creation of a dialogue to prevent a return to the days of military dictatorships and the rule of the oligarchy. Morales has called upon the United Nations, the Organization for American States, the Vatican and others to assist in a path away from the coup.

The coup is driven by the Bolivian oligarchy, who are angered by the fourth election loss by their parties to the Movement for Socialism. The oligarchy is fully supported by the United States government, which has long been eager to remove Morales and his movement from power. For over a decade, the US embassy’s Center of Operations in La Paz has articulated the fact that it has two plans – Plan A, the coup; Plan B, assassination of Morales. This is a serious breach of the UN Charter and of all international obligations.

We stand against the coup, and with the Bolivian people. We hope that they will be able to withstand what is thrown against them in the days to come.

El Mundo Con Evo. So are we.

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

If you read above you will see that military and far-right types are dragging his supporters out of their homes. Imagine what they would do to him. 

How did he managed to lose the grip on the police and the military so completely after 14 years of power, with the 2/3 majority in the parliament before these elections and two (three?) previous presidential landslide victories? Where did all this far-right types suddenly come from in such big numbers?

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think you'll find that those were the right kind of violent protest. An easy mistake to make, given how utterly identical they are.

Did you not state that violent protest is wrong recently? 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

How did he managed to lose the grip on the police and the military so completely after 14 years of power, with the 2/3 majority in the parliament before these elections and two (three?) previous presidential landslide victories? Where did all this far-right types suddenly come from in such big numbers?

I don't know mate I have no idea. 

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Did you not state that violent protest is wrong recently? 

 

Sarcasm.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Sarcasm.

Aah yes. Fair enough. 

[moof]

16 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think you'll find that those were the right kind of violent protest. An easy mistake to make, given how utterly identical they are.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

[TheHowieLama]

2 hours ago, moof said:

I would just like to point out claims of election rigging and fraud are completely unsubstantiated as of right now 

Unfortunately no one has claimed that they were not rigged - especially the folks who do that stuff.

[Red Shift]

LaRouche's take on Bolivia

https://larouchepub.com/pr/2019/191111_bolivia_coup.html

 

 

[SasaS]

42 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

LaRouche's take on Bolivia

https://larouchepub.com/pr/2019/191111_bolivia_coup.html

 

Ah, just as I thought, the City of London is behind it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think you'll find that those were the right kind of violent protest. An easy mistake to make, given how utterly identical they are.

Not really identical, though.

 

Still, who needs to be right when you can be smug?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 11/11/2019 at 21:03, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

You can't even admit that Morales is not a legitimately elected leader.

What are your thoughts on Juan Guaido?

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

What are your thoughts on Juan Guaido?

 

He's a massive improvement on Maduro, but I suspect there is more to the question than that.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

He's a massive improvement on Maduro, but I suspect there is more to the question than that.

Can you even admit that he's not a legitimately elected leader?

 

I honestly can't recall what you were saying at the time, but if you're consistent you should have been arguing that it's wrong for any country to recognise him as president. 

[Strontium]

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Can you even admit that he's not a legitimately elected leader?

 

I honestly can't recall what you were saying at the time, but if you're consistent you should have been arguing that it's wrong for any country to recognise him as president. 

 

I think the situations are completely different, I haven't been following Venezuela closely recently, but isn't Guaido an interim president selected by the national assembly until new elections can be held?

 

If the elections don't happen, then maybe you can start to say he's not there legitimately.

[moof]

You don’t follow any of it closely, that much is self evident. 

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, moof said:

You don’t follow any of it closely, that much is self evident. 

Mate - I love you but you are not really a factual contributor on these threads -- we know where you stand ideologically.

[TheHowieLama]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

t it's wrong for any country to recognise him as president. 

Difficult here pal -- each and every country should be able to have their own criteria. If a whole bunch of them all have it the same, which they do - then that may become a problem.

[TheHowieLama]

.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I haven't really paid much attention to this story. 

 

The whole involvement of the military and pictures of them pinning a sash on the interim president do make it look a bit coupy. 

 

But, if the OAS claims of electoral irregularities are true, then a fresh election should follow. With Morales as a candidate. But, another organisation, the CEPR, are claiming that there is no categorical evidence of any electoral irregularities. 

 

Can anybody expand on why the claims of the OAS should be given precedence over those of the CEPR? I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just curious as to why one claim should be believed over another.

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

the OAS should be given precedence over those of the CEPR? 

First -- repped for the word "coupy".  Which is not a word and probably not spelled correctly but still pretty cool.

 

My guess is because the OAS is recognized/partnered with the IMF and the World Bank so to get access to those funds the election needs to be ratified.

 

Bolivia is a charter member of the OAS.

[Red Shift]

4 hours ago, SasaS said:

Ah, just as I thought, the City of London is behind it.

not to forget Wall Street.

One of the more entertaining conspiracy websites around. There's always serious money splashed back and forth on a coup. The truth? Who knows.

[Jairzinho]

5 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Mate - I love you but you are not really a factual contributor on these threads -- we know where you stand ideologically.

We know where everyone stands ideologically.