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The Latin America thread


Stu Monty
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That article got me thinking what I find annoying in the reactions to this situation (and the one in Venezuela) it's  almost as if these guys cannot be voted out once they are in office, as if this process is irreversible, or something like the end of history, in Fukuyama's sense, the new, finite order is established and that is that, everything else is Fascism  versus the people.

 

According to reports, Morales' party still has the majority in parliament, there is still a good chance they can win presidential elections, even if they don't, why wouldn't they return in four years? The Left gets voted in and out all the time in many other Latin American countries, in the past 30 years or so at least. Is  there something profoundly not right in democracies in Venezuela and now Bolivia if change of governments is seen as an apocalyptic event for those in power?

 

Why the need to recreate all these Chile '73 imagery when it seems pretty obvious this is not the case, or at least, it doesn't make much sense when you try to think about  it. Morales has been in power for 14 years, carried out all these sweeping reforms, most of them years ago, where are these Fascists coming from all of a sudden and where have they been for the past 35 or how many years since Bolivia has been classified as more or less a democracy?  Which allowed Morales to win in the first place?

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13 minutes ago, SasaS said:

That article got me thinking what I find annoying in the reactions to this situation (and the one in Venezuela) it's  almost as if these guys cannot be voted out once they are in office, as if this process is irreversible, or something like the end of history, in Fukuyama's sense, the new, finite order is established and that is that, everything else is Fascism  versus the people.

 

According to reports, Morales' party still has the majority in parliament, there is still a good chance they can win presidential elections, even if they don't, why wouldn't they return in four years? The Left gets voted in and out all the time in many other Latin American countries, in the past 30 years or so at least. Is  there something profoundly not right in democracies in Venezuela and now Bolivia if change of governments is seen as an apocalyptic event for those in power?

 

Why the need to recreate all these Chile '73 imagery when it seems pretty obvious this is not the case, or at least, it doesn't make much sense when you try to think about  it. Morales has been in power for 14 years, carried out all these sweeping reforms, most of them years ago, where are these Fascists coming from all of a sudden and where have they been for the past 35 or how many years since Bolivia has been classified as more or less a democracy?  Which allowed Morales to win in the first place?

You are aware of the precarious history of “democracy” in South America, and the forces working to undermine it? It’s a valid fear 

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7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

South America is the last place anyone should be looking to for examples of good government, on the right or the left 

By which metrics? There have been many examples of world class leadership, social and economic gains and groundbreaking policy made by various South American governments; Allende’s Chile, Chavez’ Venezuela, Lula’s Brazil, Morales’ Bolivia and Uruguay, to name but a few.
 

I agree that very few right wing regimes have ever approached anywhere near what I would consider good, in most important areas. 
 

It’s a bit rich for people from the US and the UK to be lecturing the rest of the world on “good government” - well, depending on your definition of “good”, I suppose 

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21 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Well, there are really only a few that meet your criteria, and you have mentioned them all.

 

Was Lula stitched up or was he laundering money and taking bribes?

The intercept and brasilwire have done some excellent reporting on this issue, particularly the credibility issues surrounding Lava Jato and Sergio Moro, if you’re interested. 

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