Will we finish in the top 4?

[Hermes]

In each year we had the 4th highest turnover & the 4th highest wage bill.

 

Given that wages are for the life of a contract, that more than ensures the 4th highest budget reckoning

 

Somebody on here indicated that you worked as an accountant or something similar. In that case you must know the difference between budget and spending. Those figures you've quoted are for turnover and wages, how do they justify "they have had us 4th in turnover & 4th in spending in England every year Rafa has been here"?. Where are the transfer fee figures?

 

We are way ahead of Arsenal in transfer spending in the last 5 seasons, so far ahead that it even outstrips the difference in wages over that period.

[Catch22]

Somebody on here indicated that you worked as an accountant or something similar. In that case you must know the difference between budget and spending. Those figures you've quoted are for turnover and wages, how do they justify "they have had us 4th in turnover & 4th in spending in England every year Rafa has been here"?. Where are the transfer fee figures?

 

We are way ahead of Arsenal in transfer spending in the last 5 seasons, so far ahead that it even outstrips the difference in wages over that period.

 

 

 

Transfer fees are clearly important.

 

They are quoted as a 1-off (ie/ we paid £21m for Torres).

(although in fact they are mostly paid over the life of the players's 1st deal. So we had in fact only paid £5m in cash for Keane when we sold him)

 

Wages are quoted annually but football contracts are almost impossible to break as Leeds found out.

 

To compare them you need to put them on the same footing.

 

So, either

i) Do it annually

Torres £21m becomes £4.2m every year for 5 years

OR ii) Do it upfront

If we give Degen £3m/year for 4 years then the charge is an upfront £12m.

 

When you do that, our higher transfer/lower wages is still considerably below Arse's lower fees/higher wages

 

This isn't a great surprise as neither club has a 'sugar-daddy' so their considerable turnover lead causes a higher budget.

[JohanH]

and transfer targets being swiped from under our noses with depressing regularity

 

Ok- who has been swiped away exactly? We were interested in Barry LAST YEAR and I somehow doubt that Xabi's form has passed unnoticed with Benitez since then. So this year we prioritise keeping Alonso and don't worry about Barry. GOOD!

 

I fail to see that we have lost out on any one we have actually (and not reportedly, in our dreams or the rumour pages of the tabloids) showed interest in or offered for.

[Lucky Pierre]

Ok- who has been swiped away exactly? We were interested in Barry LAST YEAR and I somehow doubt that Xabi's form has passed unnoticed with Benitez since then. So this year we prioritise keeping Alonso and don't worry about Barry. GOOD!

 

I fail to see that we have lost out on any one we have actually (and not reportedly, in our dreams or the rumour pages of the tabloids) showed interest in or offered for.

One last time. From what people on here have heard from contacts high up in the club/journos in contact with the club etc, we have had deals in place for Tevez/Barry, but have not been able to go through with them.

 

If you don't wish to believe this, it's your opinion, but don't say that we haven't had anyone snatched from us unless you can cite otherwise.

[JohanH]

One last time. From what people on here have heard from contacts high up in the club/journos in contact with the club etc, we have had deals in place for Tevez/Barry, but have not been able to go through with them.

 

If you don't wish to believe this, it's your opinion, but don't say that we haven't had anyone snatched from us unless you can cite otherwise.

 

I am getting tired of the panic stations every time some guy we have been linked with at some point is bought by someone else. So my take is don't say we have had someone snatched away from us unless you know/believe otherwise.

 

BTW- what does "deal in place" mean? Deal was done and we plug was pulled as we did not have the money or a deal was presented and the player chose another one (i.e. Barry took the money)

[Lucky Pierre]

I am getting tired of the panic stations every time some guy we have been linked with at some point is bought by someone else. So my take is don't say we have had someone snatched away from us unless you know/believe otherwise.

 

BTW- what does "deal in place" mean? Deal was done and we plug was pulled as we did not have the money or a deal was presented and the player chose another one (i.e. Barry took the money)

It's what I believe, as the people I have heard it from are credible.

 

As far as I had heard, for Barry we had an agreement with MON, of £9M over 2 years, and an agreement with Barry. Then Randy Lerner came in and said he didn't want to sell Barry as he's a vital part of the squad. Then City come in with £12M upfront and he sells.

 

Tevez, we actively have a deal in place to sign him for £18M if there's no better offer, but Kia has spent a couple of weeks touting him to Barca/Inter etc.

 

We need someone who can finalise these deals, or stump up the extra cash. Right now the extra £3M from Barry and ~£7M for Tevez is going on interest payments.

[SpeedyG]

Does it? Can you point that out specificaly please as i missed it.

 

Best do it on PM please as may be a little dry for a football forum!

 

Thanks

 

I don't have the accounts, I'm basing it on what ttnbd wrote on Rawk. He seems amenable to sending the accounts out though.

 

A going cause for concern - Emphasis of Financial Matters

[RedinSweden]

Net spend is about to rear it's ugly head..

 

If it does i am going to kick its fucking face off

[Strontium]

Bumpety bump.

 

Interesting reading this thread now that early predictions that this season will be a struggle have proven correct.

 

Any of the 116 who voted Yes ready to change their mind yet? I still think we will (just) scrape into the top 4, but it's far from a done deal.

 

And would any of the people who called me ridiculous for even asking the question in the first place like salt and pepper with that humble pie?

[Red Nick]

Our next 5 games could decide our fate, defeat at Villa and an increasing of the gap to 8 points then it would be clear that we wouldnt make 4th under our current situation.

 

The flipside is if we win the next 5 games which are all winnable then we would be in prime position to finish 4th.

 

End of December will tell us a lot more

[jeff hardy]

I think we can easily do it if Rafa becomes more attack minded and plays the right players no reason why we won't...

 

 

 

 

_____________________

IN RAFA WE BELIVE

[ZonkoVille77]

But that's just it. It hasn't mainly been attack where the problem has been, it's mainly been the defence that's been the problem. I've started to notice he's putting a player on the back post lately?? Insua was against Fiorentina I think (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

He did become attack minded at the start of the season, but he hasn't managed to get the balance right. And that's why my friends, we have been crap this season.

[TheHowieLama]

Equally interesting to note the relatively paltry amounts that we have lost transfer targets for and the form those players have shown since.

 

BTW I am in for a yes vote, today.

[TheHowieLama]

plays the right players

 

dont disagree, just interested in who they are.

[Lucky Pierre]

dont disagree, just interested in who they are.

The saviour. It was written that his initials be AA. Our fourth emergency service.

[piscinin]

But that's just it. It hasn't mainly been attack where the problem has been, it's mainly been the defence that's been the problem. I've started to notice he's putting a player on the back post lately?? Insua was against Fiorentina I think (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

You are right about the Fiorentina game I think that was down to Cavlieri though. The last few games we have been playing 4 zonal without a free man. But yesterday at least once Torres played as the free man (which can sometimes look like a man on the post). The zonal scheme has been getting tweaked game by game and sometimes based on the taker that was noticeable in the West Ham game (maybe it's just an inswinger/outswinger thing).

 

He did become attack minded at the start of the season, but he hasn't managed to get the balance right. And that's why my friends, we have been crap this season.

 

Problem is there are a couple of combinations that are never going to balance out and the tweaking is confusing players, some who are notoriously form players and some who are notoriously slow to adapt anyway. I'm dubious as to whether this tweak, tweak, tweak approach is going to work and wonder whether or not it's time to bit the bullet.

[Little Sammy]

Depends if Benitez is still here.

 

And if Benitez is not here, depends who replaces him.

 

If someone like Hiddink or Mourinho replaces him, it will inject a new lease of life into the team and we are most likely to finish in the top four. If someone else comes in, then it's a different story. And if Benitez stays? Well almost half the season has passed and we're sitting pretty alongside the likes of Stoke and Birmingham, out of the CL and title race by October, out of the Carling Cup by October. So my money's on us scrambling for the Europa League places unless he fucks off with a shred of dignity.

[Unrighteous]

I'm revising my answer to no.

 

There are we're going to finish about fifth or sixth.

[Carra_is_legend]

I still haven't voted so I'm safe I think.

 

What do I think? I think we have one mother fucking massive fight on our hands if we want to finish top 4. Last season Arsenal got away with it because Villa ran out of steam.

 

This year though, City haven't gelled yet (and they will spend more in Jan) and they will gell at some point, Spurs and Villa are both looking good to challenging us.

 

We are fighting 3 potential clubs and we are still shite.

[hobbit]

Yes we will.

[Sol18]

I did not get a chance to take part in this poll earlier on so I just did it now and I voted "NO" based on yesterday's game against Arsenal where we had our strongest team out there and still we managed to lose the game.

[zigackly]

Liverpool manager Benitez 'guarantees' top four finish

 

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez says he "guarantees" that they will finish in the top four despite their poor form so far this season.

 

Having begun hoping to challenge for the title Liverpool lie seventh in the table, 13 points behind leaders Chelsea and out of the Champions League.

 

"I am sure we can do it because I know we are better than the team you are seeing on the pitch," said Benitez.

 

"I can guarantee we will finish in the top four."

 

On Sunday, Liverpool lost 2-1 at home to Arsenal, despite scoring first.

 

That result, their sixth league defeat of the season, left them five points adrift of the Champions League places. And it extended their run of poor results to only three wins in the last 15 games, their last home victory having come against champions Manchester United on 25 October.

 

Benitez is facing the most difficult period of his five years in charge at Anfield, but insists he will not compromise his principles to get out of an uncomfortable situation.

 

"For five years I think we were doing well," he said. "So we have to keep going in the same way because the club is stronger now in everything: the squad, the value of the club is better than five years ago.

 

"Yes, it is a bad moment but I still think we can improve.

 

"I think it is very important for any manager, but especially here in England, to be strong.

 

"You have to show you have an idea, you have your own people that you can talk with and analyse things and say 'This is the way to do things' and we have to keep going.

 

"The main thing for me is to come here early in the morning, do my job, go home still working a little bit and try to be ready for the next day.

 

"That is the way to do things and that is an example for the players - and they are doing the same thing.

 

"Everything can be improved and if we make mistakes we keep going.

 

"There are still 22 games to play so we know we have to change our target. Now it is to get three points against Wigan and then start thinking about Portsmouth (at the weekend)."

 

[sauce]

[PaulMcC]

Good to see he's confident.

[aws]

Good enough for me. I'll stop worrying about it now.

[WaltonRed]

I'd love a manager who'd guarentee us the league.