A thread about a man named Xabi

[wiiksie]

It includes National Insurance which used to only apply to a certain level.

 

Pre-Budget report: National Insurance rise adds to high earners' woes - Telegraph

"Less anticipated though was the clawback of the personal allowance for higher earners, which will see some taxpayers effectively paying paying 60p in the £1, according to leading accountants. These changes will not just affect the 1pc of taxpayers earning more than £150,000 a year. It will potentially affect 650,000 people earning more than £100,000 a year. To further rub salt into the wound these higher earners will also pay an additional 1pc in National Insurance costs, giving an effective taxation rate of 61pc - a rate not seen since the late 1980s."

"From April 2011"

 

And the 60p (not your 62p I might add) is "according to leading accountants".

 

So Alonso is making a career decision in 2009 based on how much tax he will pay in 2011/2012?

[Catch22]

"From April 2011"

 

And the 60p (not your 62p I might add) is "according to leading accountants".

 

So Alonso is making a career decision in 2009 based on how much tax he will pay in 2011/2012?

 

 

That was the Nov '08 budget (headline to 45%)

 

The main increase came in the Apr '09 budget but i just wanted to show the NI principle.

[Whelan]

And he nearly quit over it, in fact some people were convinced he would quit over it. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

We were talking last year, Alonso isn't happy and hasn't been happy with Benitez for some time now.

 

That is the point! He didn't quit.

 

As I say, last year he wanted to replace Xabi with Barry, it didn't work out. Xabi has been excellent and Madrid want him, and suddenly it is Rafa's fault for forcing him out! And anyone who suggest's otherwise is falling for the spin, cos we are all Rafa lovers and a bit stupid. I have no problem with Xabi leaving for Madrid because he Rafa tried to sell him last year, but HE IS NOT being forced out. Put it this way, City have absolutely no chance, if Rafa was forcing him out then they would.

 

I am not taking sides because I can see why Rafa did what he did (I agreed with him) and I can understand why Xabi wants to go to Madrid.

 

There is no need to turn on Xabi and there is no need to turn on Rafa. But we want 35 million and if Madrid don't pay he don't go.

[Xherdan]

And are we using the spanish NI equivalent to compare like with like?

 

Its also worth considering that Spain, along with Ireland are facing the deepest recession in the EU. There is only one way there tax rates are going over the coming years as they are facing unemployment of 20%+.

[Catch22]

That Sami comment is well out of order Catch22.

 

 

Why is it out-of-order to suggest that a man makes a job decision substantially based upon how much money he earns?

 

It is what all of us do.

 

The problem is that people seem to think it is unseemly to accept that money is a main factor in career choices.

 

Sami deserves everything he gets paid: he is wonderful professional.

 

The fact that he includes that in his choice-matrix & then buys a new car is human (& indeed in the long run beneficial for society unless we are Communists) not a criticism.

 

Anyway i am clearly not expressing myself very well as people think it is a criticism when it is completely the opposite (if people stop & think why they are leaving & the tax laws arwe changd then the country will benefit).

 

So it is probably best if i exit the thread for a bit as otherwise i will inadvertantly piss people off!

[wiiksie]

That was the Nov '08 budget (headline to 45%)

 

The main increase came in the Apr '09 budget but i just wanted to show the NI principle.

So we are clear, you are saying Alonso is making a career decision in 2009 based on how much tax (and NI) he will pay in 2011/2012?

[dirty_sanchez]

They could have carried on doing that in England.

 

Our 3 (& 4 if Bob goes) main departures this summer have all left for the continent.

That never happened before but was entirely predictable after the Budget

 

Somehow apparently someone on here will doubtless claim that they know Pennant's agent & he has left because Rafa was so rude to him.

So rude in fact that he had to move across the Channel to get away.

Was Rafa at Pennant's wedding/Why was Rafa not at Sami's kid brith?/ Why hasn't he praised them enough? etc etc

QED

 

Or maybe they wanted to test themselves in a different environment. You think players like Tevez, Johnson, Zhirkov etc had no offers from abroad? It's not always about the salary.

[Zippy]

He happily took a raise up to £120k/wk though didn't he?

 

Which is completely deserved.

 

And yes he follows it less than most (he took a pay cut to join us i think) but he is an extreme exception.

 

Xabi is not!

 

Speculation on your part. Do you think if City do come in now and offer him a deal where he would earn more after tax than he would at Real he would go there?

 

Money is a factor but so is going to arguably the greatest club in his country (many would argue the world) when they are signing several of the world's best players, and also leaving a club where the manager tried to sell him the previous season.

 

To put it all down to money is a gross oversimplification.

[dirty_sanchez]

Why is it out-of-order to suggest that a man makes a job decision substantially based upon how much money he earns?

 

It is what all of us do.

 

The problem is that people seem to think it is unseemly to accept that money is a main factor in career choices.

 

Because in a lot of cases it isn't. A lot of people probably do chose their job based on salary, but equally a lot of people chose their jobs based on whether they will enjoy the role, whether they like the culture of the work place, what the employer stands for, where the job is located, how successful the company is etc.

[Carra_is_legend]

Or maybe they wanted to test themselves in a different environment. You think players like Tevez, Johnson, Zhirkov etc had no offers from abroad? It's not always about the salary.

 

Aye. Catch has a point but the problem is he thinks it is the main criteria, which is wrong.

 

How many top players have wanted to go abroad this season? How many players from United, chelsea or Arsenal have wanted better contracts because of the new tax rules? Not many.

[philyhamann]

That is the point! He didn't quit.

 

As I say, last year he wanted to replace Xabi with Barry, it didn't work out. Xabi has been excellent and Madrid want him, and suddenly it is Rafa's fault for forcing him out! And anyone who suggest's otherwise is falling for the spin, cos we are all Rafa lovers and a bit stupid. I have no problem with Xabi leaving for Madrid because he Rafa tried to sell him last year, but HE IS NOT being forced out. Put it this way, City have absolutely no chance, if Rafa was forcing him out then they would.

 

I am not taking sides because I can see why Rafa did what he did (I agreed with him) and I can understand why Xabi wants to go to Madrid.

 

There is no need to turn on Xabi and there is no need to turn on Rafa. But we want 35 million and if Madrid don't pay he don't go.

 

He didn't quit cause he got what he wanted, the promise of a lucrative new contract and unprecendented control at one of the biggest football clubs in the world.

[t1971]

If Xabi wants to go he should be honest with the fans and tell us he wants to go and why. He should also put in a transfer request and forfeit any bonuses or wages.

 

i hate all this nonsense of trying to force him out and whoring him round europe for £15m. We received a £15m ish bid for him which we rejected as being too low. I dont see any evidence that we went to other clubs in europe trying to get rid of him.

[Xherdan]

Why is it out-of-order to suggest that a man makes a job decision substantially based upon how much money he earns?

 

It is what all of us do.

 

The problem is that people seem to think it is unseemly to accept that money is a main factor in career choices.

 

Sami deserves everything he gets paid: he is wonderful professional.

 

The fact that he includes that in his choice-matrix & then buys a new car is human (& indeed in the long run beneficial for society unless we are Communists) not a criticism.

 

Anyway i am clearly not expressing myself very well as people think it is a criticism when it is completely the opposite (if people stop & think why they are leaving & the tax laws arwe changd then the country will benefit).

 

So it is probably best if i exit the thread for a bit as otherwise i will inadvertantly piss people off!

 

 

 

What you were suggesting is that Sami made this decision based off his salary expectations. Considering where Sami is in his career and the level of competition for CB places at LFC his decision was more based on time on the field, which he made perfectly clear.

 

Even suggesting that he made the decision based on money is hugely disrespectful.

[Whelan]

He didn't quit cause he got what he wanted, the promise of a lucrative new contract and unprecendented control at one of the biggest football clubs in the world.

 

So Rafa only stayed for the money? But Xabi is leaving because he is being forced out?

 

That is my problem with this whole scenario, I think it is quite simple. Madrid have come in for Xabi and he wants to talk to them, he thinks (quite rightly) that since Rafa was prepared to sell him last year that he is well within his rights to talk to them, Rafa thinks he is well within his rights to hold out for as big a fee as possible.

 

If Madrid walk away, I am confident that Xabi will give us the same level of committment that he gave us last year.

 

Seriously, everyone is building this into something it isn't just so they can carry on their petty misgivings, it's becomming a joke.

[cotter]

ayesteran caught flirting with mourinho, ayesteran is sacked, alonso throws his toys out the pram, performance drops, benitez tries to sell, alonso improves, real madrid beckons. this making shit up stuff is easy.

[philyhamann]

So Rafa only stayed for the money? But Xabi is leaving because he is being forced out?

 

That is my problem with this whole scenario, I think it is quite simple. Madrid have come in for Xabi and he wants to talk to them, he thinks (quite rightly) that since Rafa was prepared to sell him last year that he is well within his rights to talk to them, Rafa thinks he is well within his rights to hold out for as big a fee as possible.

 

If Madrid walk away, I am confident that Xabi will give us the same level of committment that he gave us last year.

 

Seriously, everyone is building this into something it isn't just so they can carry on their petty misgivings, it's becomming a joke.

 

Rafa stayed cause he got a huge contract, at a huge club and got more autonomy here than he would get at any other club of this size.

 

I don't see how that compares to Alonso when one of the reasons he is leaving is Benitez disrespecting him. He didn't have a great love for him before hand either, but that pushed him over the edge. I think he would be staying if Benitez hadn't screwed him, but he should hand in a transfer request if he wants to leave.

[t1971]

You entirely miss the point or choose to miss the point.

 

Go ahead then Nick, enlighten me. Why would keeping Xabi here another year be a bad thing?

[rondeco]

Liverpool Echo.co.uk - Liverpool FC - News - Javier Mascherano to be told: You’re staying at Liverpool FC

 

RAFA BENITEZ will tell Javier Mascherano he will not be allowed to leave Liverpool when the Argentinian midfielder returns to pre-season training later this week.

 

The future of Mascherano – who became a father for the second time at the weekend – has been in question throughout the summer after the 25-year-old told the Reds boss that his wife was suffering from homesickness.

 

But with the likelihood of Xabi Alonso quitting Anfield increasing with every passing day, Benitez would be loathe to lose Mascherano as well and see his entire first choice central midfield wiped out in the space of a few weeks.

 

Mascherano has been attracting interest from Barcelona with Nou Camp boss Pep Guardiola keen to employ him behind Andres Iniesta and Xavi in the European champions’ engine room.

 

Benitez is desperate to hang on to the Argentina captain though and has already made it clear he is not looking to cash in on a player he regards as one of the finest defensive midfielders in world football.

 

With Mascherano due to join up with his team mates at pre-season training in Switzerland in the coming days Benitez will take the opportunity to tell the former West Ham man that he won’t be going anywhere because he is needed for Liverpool’s assault on the Premier League title in the coming season.

 

Contrary to reports, there are as yet no plans to offer the player a new contract as a sweetener with Mascherano just 18 months into a four year deal signed in February 2008.

 

Benitez is hoping that the lure of possible glory with Liverpool rather than an increased pay packet will be enough to convince Mascherano that his future remains at Anfield.

 

Only if Mascherano commits himself to the Liverpool cause once again will a new contract become a possibility.

 

Meanwhile, Liverpool are set to strengthen their links with Hungarian club MTK Budapest by taking five of their most promising youngsters on trial.

 

The Reds relationship with MTK has already seen them sign reserve team regulars Krisztian Nemeth, Peter Gulacsi, Zsolt Poloskei and Andras Simon since 2008.

 

With Nemeth and Gulacsi now involved in the first team set up during pre-season, Benitez will look once again tap into the MTK production line by running the rule over the quintet.

 

Goalkeeper Attila Abu, midfielders Krisztian Adorjan and Patrik Vass, striker Peter Horvath and defender Patrik Poor have all been invited to Liverpool’s academy after impressing academy director Frank McParland on a recent scouting mission

[Rex Banner]

I hate reading this thread but I do expecting to find some advancements on the situation after another 10 pages are added but alas I'm always left disappointed and annoyed at the merry go round.

[Red Nick]

Rafa stayed cause he got a huge contract, at a huge club and got more autonomy here than he would get at any other club of this size.

 

I don't see how that compares to Alonso when one of the reasons he is leaving is Benitez disrespecting him. He didn't have a great love for him before hand either, but that pushed him over the edge. I think he would be staying if Benitez hadn't screwed him, but he should hand in a transfer request if he wants to leave.

 

Xabi Alonso tells Rafael Benítez he wants to leave Anfield | Football | The Guardian

 

Xabi Alonso has told Rafa Benítez that he wants to leave Anfield. Real Madrid have made no secret of their desire to sign the midfielder and are hopeful that Alonso will be able to persuade the Liverpool manager to sell. Should that fail, they are keen for him to force Liverpool's hand by going one step further and publicly stating his desire to play at the Santiago Bernabéu.

 

Madrid are understood to have tabled a bid in the region of €27m (£23m) only to have the offer turned down. Spanish media reported that they had returned with a lower offer in light of the pressure exerted by the player on Benítez. Although Alonso is reluctant to go public, he has privately asked his manager to listen to offers from the Spanish club.

 

The Madrid coach, Manuel Pellegrini, admitted that he was keen to sign Alonso. Madrid lack a midfield playmaker and there is a desire to increase the number of Spaniards at the club. The club's president, Florentino Pérez, has talked about the need to "Spanishise" Real Madrid, and Pellegrini said: "We need a midfielder [and] Alonso would fit our system."

 

But having spent more than €150m on Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka, Madrid are reluctant to be pushed into paying over £30m for Alonso, because he does not fit into the galactico category of players who generate cash for the club.

 

Although Benítez tried to force Alonso out last summer as he pursued Gareth Barry, he missed out on the former Aston Villa player when he joined Manchester City last month. That has left Liverpool with few alternatives in central midfield and Benítez publicly says that Alonso is not for sale. Privately he is understood to be willing to sell – but only for £30m or more.

 

Benítez also does not want to appear to be responsible for Alonso's departure after fans reacted angrily to his proposed sale last season. Liverpool supporters made a public display of support for the Spaniard and chanted anti-Barry songs. Alonso then finished the season as the fans' player of the year.

 

A public declaration of intent from Alonso would thus suit the Liverpool manager as well as Real Madrid but Benítez remains determined not to be bullied on the price.

 

Alonso still has three years left to run on his contract. "It is no mystery that we are interested in him," Pellegrini said, "but we know it will not be easy."

[Whelan]

Rafa stayed cause he got a huge contract, at a huge club and got more autonomy here than he would get at any other club of this size.

 

I don't see how that compares to Alonso when one of the reasons he is leaving is Benitez disrespecting him. He didn't have a great love for him before hand either, but that pushed him over the edge. I think he would be staying if Benitez hadn't screwed him, but he should hand in a transfer request if he wants to leave.

 

I can't really disagree with any of that, just disagree as to how much it has to do with this situation.

 

I just don't see what all the fuss is about, I can understand why Xabi wants to leave and I can see (in light of all the shite flying around on this site for instance) why Rafa wants Xabi to hand in a transfer request.

 

There is no need for all this invective aimed at both Rafa and Xabi!

[philyhamann]

I think he would be staying if he actually like the manager, or at least hadn't been disrespected. He was willing to leave last season to after that shambles, he even considered Arsenal did he not?

 

I'm glad we're keeping Masch though, our midfield were a joke against Chelsea without him.

[Whelan]

I think he would be staying if he actually like the manager, or at least hadn't been disrespected. He was willing to leave last season to after that shambles, he even considered Arsenal did he not?

 

I'm glad we're keeping Masch though, our midfield were a joke against Chelsea without him.

 

I think he would be staying if it wasn't Madrid. Arsenal didn't think he was worth 12 million!

 

I think we need two midfielders, one physical to replace Mascherano and another.

[t1971]

I think he would be staying if he actually like the manager, or at least hadn't been disrespected. He was willing to leave last season to after that shambles, he even considered Arsenal did he not?

 

I'm glad we're keeping Masch though, our midfield were a joke against Chelsea without him.

 

I dont. I think he wants to go to Madrid with all the other players they have signed. He wants to be closer to home and money may even be a part of the reason. I think if Rafa left and we got another manager Xabi would still go.

[Red Nick]

It really doesnt matter who is to blame on this one the bottom line is Xabi doesnt want to play for us anymore.

 

Yes Code is right on two key facts that Xabi stood up for Pako and invited him to his wedding and said Mascher wasnt for sale at any price and that he didnt want to sell Xabi which in Rafa speak means for sale at a price.

 

However who is right and who is wrong on what is right for LFC and the right thing for LFC is to fuck Xabi right out of the club

 

Unless Xabi comes out with some type of Gerrard statement which he should have made by now its clear he doesnt want to play for Rafa.

 

The way I would describe the abusrd notion that Xabi can say he doesnt want to play for us anymore and still remain at the club is this. Imagine a Sales manager with a team of 15 Sales people 5 of which are outstanding and producing the company a lot of money, However the 3rd best income producing performer has had a fall out with the manager of the team but still stays in the team. Well in that scenario he would imediately be sacked from the team because they wouldnt want him being a negative impact and dragging the rest of the team down with his negativity and more importantly the sales manager ie Rafa in this case knows that should things start to gp wrong he will be the first person to put the boot in. I bet you Xabi is already telling his side of the story to all the players that will listen especially the Spanish contingent.

 

Be interesting to see if Rafa banishes him to the reserves on Monday like Houllier did with Ince. I would admrie Rafa if he did but I think Rafa likes to be liked wheras Houllier just didnt care what people thought of thim and Rafa also likes to play the PR game and doesnt want to be seen as the one who forced Xabi out.