A thread about a man named Xabi

[INTORRESTING]

The point Rashid is raising is actually more valid than most arguments used on such a forum and how anyone can try and make a fool of him for using it is beyond the pale.

 

Lets take a look at lets say the 5 biggest leagues in Europe the last 30 years, lets agree these 5 leagues are Italy, Spain, England, Germany and France (even if someone could make a strong case for Portugal being a bigger and better league than France).

 

1. How many managers have won the league after being in charge of the same team in the same league for 5 consecutive seasons without winning it in their first 5 seasons?

 

2. How many different managers have won these leagues in the same time frame?

 

After we have done this we can always look at the top 10 as well, if someone thinks they need more data to build their case.

 

Since the point Rashid is making seems so silly I guess loads of people will be on this case in a hurry to prove how silly this argument is by finding all these names.

 

After you have done that we can analyse the circumstances around the different cases to see if we can come up with a conclusion as to why it will be a good idea to give someone more time than 5 years in any job in todays football.

 

How many leagues had 3 of the best teams in europe in them all with more money?

Who are the most successful managers in our league? How long have they been in charge?

Is winning the title after 6 years with what rafa inherited really that bad?

[drewy]

If his investment strategy is based on Spain, for example, buying and letting properties there, it's a big problem. His mortgages just went up a whole lot and the rent didn't.

 

Agreed, but that's pure speculation.

[INTORRESTING]

Madrid is a circus and i am surprised people think it is such a great idea to go there, they will probably get a new manager after 5 mins if the results dont go well and will that man like xabi? I think he is taking a risk going there

[SpeedyG]

The point is though that the biggest clubs have managers who win it in their first three seasons of they get the sack (in nearly all cases). Not saying Rafa should be winning but he should be challenging for it. He himself won it Valencia in his first season.

 

No the point is, titles are won on football pitches, not statistical analysis packages.

[SpeedyG]

Agreed, but that's pure speculation.

 

It is but I think we can at least agree it's plausible, so we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. By the same token there are plenty of ways to hedge against currency fluctuations and so I think catch22s hypothesis is far less certain than he likes to project.

[ToxtethTerror]

No the point is, titles are won on football pitches, not statistical analysis packages.

 

The irony.

[SpeedyG]

The irony.

 

is lost on you. Speedy's hierarchy of C's

 

1. Causation

2. Correlation

3. Co-incidence

4. Crap

5. Code72

 

get it? I do, do you?

[Stevie P]

I'd hate to be one of these clubs who change their manager like the wind. Thankfully that has never been our style and long may it continue.

[Catch22]

So you agree it's a pointless argument, his salary is really unaffected by the exchange rate. He lives in the UK gets paid in GBP and spends GBP in almost everything he does.

 

Everybody is at the mercy of exchange rates, I don't go and see me CEO before I go on holiday demanding more money because Thomas Cook only gave me 1.19 Euros to the Pound.

 

 

But RM would pay him in Euros.

 

If your alternative employers were paying in Euros then you would be in a position to negotiate your salary accordingly.

 

(& although your domestic living costs argument is valid if most of the income is spent on domestic neccessities it is not relevent for very high-earners who have a large surplus every month which they can spend/invest/save anywhere in the world)

 

Whether he personally mentally accounts in GBP (in which case his salary has fallen by 20% due to tax but RM's offer is automatically another 20% higher), in EUR (in which case it has fallen by 40%) or in JPY (in which case it has fallen by over 50% but RM has dropped 10%) there has been a signficant swing in our pay compared to RM's.

 

The rate compared to JPY or USD is not relevant to footballers at the moment as their clubs are not competiting with ours for talent.

 

EUR/GBP is however as all the top clubs pay in 1 or another.

 

It is specifcally relevant when we know that he can increase his take-home pay by at least 40% if he moves.

 

Every one on here would move or at least tell their present employer in that situation which is precisely what he has done.

[diego]

It took me a while to come around to this way of thinking, but it's clear Xabi wants to go and it's clear money is a key drive of this ambition to leave.

 

That's the nub. He and his fans constantly justify his putting himself on the market by reference to the notional fall in the value of his contract due to the depreciation of the Pound Sterling against the Euro. That depreciation has lasted about 6 months in an extended contract of some 8 years. During the time when the Pound Sterling was appreciating against the Euro he never offered to give back the notional rise to LFC.

 

Even with the notional decrease his 65K a week is still 65K in the UK - he doesn't live in Spain.

 

He also has access to the finest specialist financial advisors to shield him from much of the UK taxation and he can, if he wishes, also buy hedges against fluctuations in the value of currencies.

 

The fact is that a move to RM would win him a very big cash bonus as a signing-on fee as well as increase in his wages measured in Euros.

 

He has said on several occasions he does not have a conflict with Rafa and that Rafa treats him the same as he treats every other player. Why do his fans not believe him?

 

This thread has been driven from the beginning by mischievous, agenda-driven disinformation.

[rebel23]

this argument from TT and Code is really stupid just because something doesn't happen often historically, doesn't preclude it from happening and the most glorious example is Fergie took 7 years to win a title after finishing midtable a few times.

 

if you look at La Liga historically only two teams win it, apart from an exception which was Valencia, twice and guess who managed them. didn't Depor win it one season or come close?

 

if you look at England, it has been dominated by a team with a manager who has been there for a long period and when we and the rest of the league were frankly shit, then came along Wenger who is still there and given the patience and control to build sides (wonder what Wenger would make of working with Rick Parry), then came along Abramovich/Mourinho spending unprecedented sums and wins the league, if Man City win the league in the next two seasons Rafa must be shit and Hughes a genius? don't make me laugh.

 

it's about circumstance and resources if you look at it historically not whether a manager can win it within 3 seasons and of course trends can be broken all the time.

[drewy]

It is but I think we can at least agree it's plausible, so we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. By the same token there are plenty of ways to hedge against currency fluctuations and so I think catch22s hypothesis is far less certain than he likes to project.

 

Exactly, given the vast sums of money these people have surplus every month, I'd say it's a cert they'll have top notch accountants and investment people who can smother any effect that currency fluctuation may have on them.

[Catch22]

It is but I think we can at least agree it's plausible, so we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. By the same token there are plenty of ways to hedge against currency fluctuations and so I think catch22s hypothesis is far less certain than he likes to project.

 

 

It doesn't matter if he has hedged against the FX move.

 

RM's new negotiating power is still roughly 40% better off than ours compared to the summer of 2007.

 

If he had bought EUR/GBP as a hedge then he would be personally protected but he can still move to Real & then sell the hedge (as it is no longer needed) & make a windfall.

 

It dosn't matter.

 

RM's negotiating powers are roughly 40% higher than in summer '07 before you consider what has happened on the pitch & off it to us each specifically.

[BatChainPuller]

 

Xabi Alonso

 

 

Xabi and Rafa's 'clear the air' talks.

[Brownie]

I really can't be arsed with this debate any more, what will be, will be. One thing I wanted to put straight though, after reading Dirk's post, was where I hear little snippets of information from.

 

He may not have been talking about me, but I think it would be easily misinterpreted, hence this explanation.

 

He made the point that people have their views because they receive their information from someone who has an axe to grind with the manager. The person I hear little bits from, has absolutely no issue with Rafa at all. Indeed, he's a Middlesbrough fan and has no connection to the club at all, other than being good friends with a professional footballer.

 

That said professional footballer is absolutely desperate to play for Liverpool, so he has no gripe at all with the manager either, so how these little things I hear could be perceived as coming from a source with alterior motives, frankly doesn't make any sense.

 

As I said, I just wanted to clear that up.

 

EDIT - So next time someone accuses me of being part of the 'Bascombe' clan, they will be making themselves look utterly stupid.

[Durango]

No not really as for me this was never about hate, that seemed to be just a cliched response for anyone who was pro Xabi. The same way apparently if you want Alonso to stay you automatically hate Rafa.

Well i like Rafa and want Xabi to stay!!

 

So what group am I in?

[Dirk]

I never mentioned your name but it seemed at the time that there was people on this very thread, when Xabi spoke to Bascombe, that started posting about it because of what they had heard.

 

You do yourself no favours by being so confrontational, you make yourself look utterly stupid. However, where did the agent get the information from? It's still not objective, it will third or even 4th or 5th hand by the time it filters to him, even less reliable.

[Durango]

Barrett must be back frm his hollybobs by now?

He's back in the next 10 days.

[Durango]

Won't Xabi be going on his holidays now.

He wasn't anyway,he's getting married on the 11th of next month.

[diego]

 

So when you say, as you did the other day, it is common knowledge that all the LFC players know about Alonso and Rafa etc etc etc-------what you actually meant was that an unnamed Middlesborough fan, who is a friend of an unnamed Middlesbrough player, who is angling for a move to LFC, knows etc etc

 

I wonder if Bascombe's source is just as exotic.

Edited June 29, 2009 by diego

[Stevie P]

Is it Downing?

 

How would he know that Xabi doesn't want to work with Rafa anymore? If he did it would have been at least 2nd or 3rd hand info.

[Section_31]

Who reps this tool? Controversial.

 

Negged without reading any recent posts.

[Guest Kenny]

When are the Spainish players due back for pre season? we go abroad on the 19th I think.

[Stevie P]

It's all a bit tedious now. Rafa was wrong last summer not to be more upfront with Xabi, but we've moved on and if he harboured a grudge he should have gone and knocked on Rafa's door and sorted it out, not engineer a move away through the media.

 

Rafa has stated that he's not for sale, and if he really wants to go he should come out and say so and stop misleading the fans who worship him.

[Xherdan]

If we are to follow the example put forward by TT and Code, should we not follow the Madrid example and change our manager every other season? They have won most spanish leagues.