A thread about a man named Xabi

[Whelan]

I take it this thread has gone more abusive?

 

I can't be arsed reading through all I have missed (been away) if it is the same as the first 140 pages, any changes?

 

Tell me to fuck off if you feel like, but a nice summary of recent developments would be appreciated!

 

If nothing has changed then just tell me to piss off for being a lazy twat.

[SpeedyG]

I take it this thread has gone more abusive?

 

I can't be arsed reading through all I have missed (been away) if it is the same as the first 140 pages, any changes?

 

Tell me to fuck off if you feel like, but a nice summary of recent developments would be appreciated!

 

If nothing has changed then just tell me to piss off for being a lazy twat.

 

The only new stuff is that Xabi gave a couple of interviews after the game yesterday and they were waffly. No new insight.

[Dirk]

I don't have an issue with people defending their point, be it because they are afraid to let go of their existing beliefs or because they genuinely have an insight. I don't want an end to conflict either, it's a great catalyst for change. What I want is for people to be in "good faith" about what they say and how they treat the opinions of others.

 

BTW I've been in several "learning organizations" so I've been through the Bohmian thing, it is great, but I don't think it's all that relevant, we're all subject to those weaknesses, but we can live with them, they are not crucial to to the well running of this place. If people just treated each other with respect it would be a far more fruitful starting point.

 

 

I don't really understand the point you are making. I don't think we can live with them, I think the fragmentation of society proves that. That was what Bohm's book was primarily written for, it was hijacked by businesses and corporations and is now standard management fayre but that wasn't its initial purpose, it was to evoke a spirit for change. Conflict fragments the whole, I don't think it's possible to exact permanent, meaningful change via conflict, it might present the illusion of peace but that peace will be temporary because the conflict will come with its own set of problems. Anyway, man, I have to go to work. Catch you later.

[Roy Hobbs]

Why does he want to return to Spain though?

 

Could it be because his manager clearly do not want him, but when his masterplan to bring the inferior G.Barry to Liverpool fell through for the second time this summer after he had once again had touted Alonso around Europe to let them know he was still availible even if he had an incredible season, the player probably thought well enough is enough of this disgraceful treatment from someone with an peronal agenda.

 

If Rafa had to go this summer do you think Alonso would have wanted to go?

 

Name me a manager in world football (except Ferguson) who took more than 3 years to win the league. (Those that inherited teams in their top divisions that is so Howard Wilkinson etc don't count as they inherited 2nd division teams and would need more than 3 years to do that miracle!)

 

Can you tell me which managers have been given more than 3 years to win the league?

[Roy Hobbs]

Ferguson doesn't count because in the law of statistics he being one of only one or two is insignificant.

 

Its like saying; of a sample 1000 people 999 hate England, but we MUST count that one person. I'd say the insight from it was clear but there will always be pedants chatting shite and haggling over insignificance like you are doing now.

 

Anyway, come on name me someone other than Ferguson who took more than 3 years to win the league.

 

You fucking clown.

 

Fuck it. How many managers last 3 years?

 

Yet the two most succesfull managers in the premier league have been at their job for well over a decade. Your logic on this shows you up Rash.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Roy the thread has juts got back to some sort of stability and there you go wading feet first into it.

 

Have a read of this thread FAO Dave U

[INTORRESTING]

edit

no point arguing

Edited June 29, 2009 by INTORRESTING

[ToxtethTerror]

Roy the thread has juts got back to some sort of stability and there you go wading feet first into it.

 

Have a read of this thread FAO Dave U

 

Totally missing the point shocker. Not even going to bother explaining.

[ToxtethTerror]

Good post that Rash and its what quite a few have been trying to get across.

 

Neither Alonso or Rafa are blameless in this whole episode.

 

Hopefully now we can put a line under it and move on to the next person we can argue about.

 

I think its been done to death, both parties aren't blameless - both parties are multi-millionnaires - we are just ordinary punters trying to support the club we love. If he leaves he leaves, if he stays then great lets hope they can both draw a line under it. I am beyong caring now, I have bills to pay and can't relate to these footballers/managers anymore.

 

If you are going to go, go now Xabi so we can search for someone top class to replace you.. if he stays then for FFS Rafa clear the air and lets forget this episode altogether.

 

Simple as that.

[SpeedyG]

I don't really understand the point you are making. I don't think we can live with them, I think the fragmentation of society proves that. That was what Bohm's book was primarily written for, it was hijacked by businesses and corporations and is now standard management fayre but that wasn't its initial purpose, it was to evoke a spirit for change. Conflict fragments the whole, I don't think it's possible to exact permanent, meaningful change via conflict, it might present the illusion of peace but that peace will be temporary because the conflict will come with its own set of problems. Anyway, man, I have to go to work. Catch you later.

 

There you go synthesizing your eastern and western mindsets again and leaving me at a disadvantage :smile:

 

I actually completely agree with you when I have my thinking hat on. But when I have my workman's hard hat I completely disagree. If I get time this week I'll PM you about his, if you don't mind, because I learnt a whole lot just reading this response and I'd like to take it further.

[Joe Le Taxi]

Jesus.......

[Catch22]

I think its been done to death, both parties aren't blameless - both parties are multi-millionnaires - we are just ordinary punters trying to support the club we love. If he leaves he leaves, if he stays then great lets hope they can both draw a line under it. I am beyong caring now, I have bills to pay and can't relate to these footballers/managers anymore.

 

If you are going to go, go now Xabi so we can search for someone top class to replace you.. if he stays then for FFS Rafa clear the air and lets forget this episode altogether.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

Neither should be blamed in anyway.

 

Xabi's contract value has falled by about 40% in value since he signed it, thru no fault of either party.

RM can restore it.

 

Would you turn down an opportunity to do the same job for a rise of 50%ish with an equally well regarded firm?

 

No of course you wouldn't so why should he?

 

If you liked your current firm, you woiuld probably tell them of the approach to you in an honest,professional fashion & see if they could try & match it.

 

If they couldn't, you would leave & it would be nobody's fault.

 

This is exactly what is happening here & has been all along.

 

This is a perfectly normal process that happens every day & to every person at some point in their career.

The specific difficulties in retaining top talent in the UK due to tax is happening in every major industry.

 

Football is a job for the players.

 

They behave in their job & career dealings much like the rest of us.

 

Most of the confused thinking on here happens when people do not apply the same rules for players as they would for any other worker.

[Roy Hobbs]

Roy the thread has juts got back to some sort of stability and there you go wading feet first into it.

 

Have a read of this thread FAO Dave U

 

Sorry to post those replies a bit late but it gets my goat up every time he posts it. He's been saying it for a long time now and as far as I am concerned it is one of the weakest points made on a forum I have seen. It need pulling up because he continually drags it out every 2-3 months and states it as some sort of stat that proves he is right.

 

It's a baseless stat and I will continue to point it out.

 

PS the Premier league title has been won by 4 managers. Two of which continue and have both spent more than a decade in their job. They account for all but 3 of the premier league titles handed out since it began.

 

The most succesfull of those two took 7 seven years to win it.

[ToxtethTerror]

The most succesfull of those two took 7 seven years to win it.

 

And the point is, how long did the others take to win it? Thats the point, you missed it by a mile. Pointless arguing it though so lets move on.

[drewy]

Neither should be blamed in anyway.

 

Xabi's contract value has falled by about 40% in value since he signed it, thru no fault of either party.

RM can restore it.

 

Would you turn down an opportunity to do the same job for a rise of 50%ish with an equally well regarded firm?

 

No of course you wouldn't so why should he?

 

If you liked your current firm, you woiuld probably tell them of the approach to you in an honest,professional fashion & see if they could try & match it.

 

If they couldn't, you would leave & it would be nobody's fault.

 

This is exactly what is happening here & has been all along.

 

This is a perfectly normal process that happens every day & to every person at some point in their career.

The specific difficulties in retaining top talent in the UK due to tax is happening in every major industry.

 

Football is a job for the players.

 

They behave in their job & career dealings much like the rest of us.

 

Most of the confused thinking on here happens when people do not apply the same rules for players as they would for any other worker.

 

 

How has his contract value fallen by 40%?

[ToxtethTerror]

How has his contract value fallen by 40%?

 

Combination of exchange rates and the new 50% tax band. Don't get him started please!

[drewy]

Combination of exchange rates and the new 50% tax band. Don't get him started please!

 

I don't buy the exchange rate nonsense (no pun intended), he lives in the UK and gets paid in GBP, where does the exchange rate come into it?

 

At what gross salary rate does the 50% tax rate come in?

[Bogman]

Nice weather we're having for the time of year.

[Roy Hobbs]

And the point is, how long did the others take to win it? Thats the point, you missed it by a mile. Pointless arguing it though so lets move on.

 

I'll move on when you stop bringing up a stupid stat. Managers get sacked all the time in order to protect the board because they don't have the stomach for it.

 

Thankfully the biggest of clubs, the ones that have tasted long term success understand that patience is a godsend. Get the right manager in and back him.

[Catch22]

I don't buy the exchange rate nonsense (no pun intended), he lives in the UK and gets paid in GBP, where does the exchange rate come into it?

 

At what gross salary rate does the 50% tax rate come in?

 

He is from Spain & likely to return there so he will account in his home country.

(Just as when we go abroad we mentally rebase prices into sterling)

 

Anyway even if he accounts in GBP, the value of his contract has fallen by less, but the value of RM's new offer has gone up by more

He still gets a rise of about 50%.

 

The 62% (including NI) comes in next March over just £175k pa or about 2 weeks work for Xabi.

[Code]

Can you tell me which managers have been given more than 3 years to win the league?

 

The point Rashid is raising is actually more valid than most arguments used on such a forum and how anyone can try and make a fool of him for using it is beyond the pale.

 

Lets take a look at lets say the 5 biggest leagues in Europe the last 30 years, lets agree these 5 leagues are Italy, Spain, England, Germany and France (even if someone could make a strong case for Portugal being a bigger and better league than France).

 

1. How many managers have won the league after being in charge of the same team in the same league for 5 consecutive seasons without winning it in their first 5 seasons?

 

2. How many different managers have won these leagues in the same time frame?

 

After we have done this we can always look at the top 10 as well, if someone thinks they need more data to build their case.

 

Since the point Rashid is making seems so silly I guess loads of people will be on this case in a hurry to prove how silly this argument is by finding all these names.

 

After you have done that we can analyse the circumstances around the different cases to see if we can come up with a conclusion as to why it will be a good idea to give someone more time than 5 years in any job in todays football.

[drewy]

He is from Spain & likely to return there so he will account in his home country.

(Just as when we go abroad we mentally rebase prices into sterling)

 

Anyway even if he accounts in GBP, the value of his contract has fallen by less, but the value of RM's new offer has gone up by more

He still gets a rise of about 50%.

 

The 62% (including NI) comes in next March over just £175k pa or about 2 weeks work for Xabi.

 

So you agree it's a pointless argument, his salary is really unaffected by the exchange rate. He lives in the UK gets paid in GBP and spends GBP in almost everything he does.

 

Everybody is at the mercy of exchange rates, I don't go and see me CEO before I go on holiday demanding more money because Thomas Cook only gave me 1.19 Euros to the Pound.

[ToxtethTerror]

Thankfully the biggest of clubs, the ones that have tasted long term success understand that patience is a godsend. Get the right manager in and back him.

 

The point is though that the biggest clubs have managers who win it in their first three seasons of they get the sack (in nearly all cases). Not saying Rafa should be winning but he should be challenging for it. He himself won it Valencia in his first season.

[SpeedyG]

I don't buy the exchange rate nonsense (no pun intended), he lives in the UK and gets paid in GBP, where does the exchange rate come into it?

 

At what gross salary rate does the 50% tax rate come in?

 

If his investment strategy is based on Spain, for example, buying and letting properties there, it's a big problem. His mortgages just went up a whole lot and the rent didn't.

[Stevie P]

So you agree it's a pointless argument, his salary is really unaffected by the exchange rate. He lives in the UK gets paid in GBP and spends GBP in almost everything he does.

 

Everybody is at the mercy of exchange rates, I don't go and see me CEO before I go on holiday demanding more money because Thomas Cook only gave me 1.19 Euros to the Pound.

 

:thumbsup: