Progress or not?

[Code]

A lot of people are talking about all the progress we have made this season, but have we really made this significant progress everyone is talking about?

 

If we look at the facts we were knocked out of the Carling Cup before it really started(4th round), we were knocked out of the FA Cup before it really started(4th round again) and we were knocked out of the CL in the Quarter finals, all other teams from the PL in the same competition reached the semis.

 

We will most likely get our best point tally ever in the league and we have mounted a serious title challenge, but if we look behind these facts what do we find when we look at the numbers?

 

Against the other top 4 teams we have had our best season ever under Rafa getting 14 out of 18 possible points, thats progress but its also just a small number of games, is it right to talk about progress if you really only have improved in a few specific games when you look at the season as a whole?

 

The fact is, in the 05/06 season we got 78 points against the dross in the league, this season we will get maximum 72 points if we win our two last matches.

 

I find it hard to call that progress.

 

If we look at our home form we have got 40, 48, 46 and 42 points in Rafa`s time here, at the moment we have 40 points with one game to go so thats hardly any great progress either.

 

Where we have made some progress though is against the top four teams like I showed above where I think we have doubled our point tally this season compared to our best season prior to this one.

 

We have also improved our away form, having an earlier record with 18, 34, 22 and 34 points.

We are on 40 points now with one game to go, so thats massive improvement in this departement, but is it enough to say we really have progressed on the whole this season?

 

For me we have progressed in bits and pieces and gone backwards in others, just like every season under Rafa, what makes this season different is that we have won he vital games against Chelsea and the mancs denying them points and gaining a few ourselves, but at the moment it looks like that will not be enough and once again we will finish the season empty handed.

 

Combined with our early exit in all Cup competitions I`m nor really overly satisfied just because our league campaign have turned out allright.

 

To round it all off this is how it looks like if we compare ourselves home and away against the mancs tha last five seasons.

 

04/05:

Home:

3. Man Utd 19 12 6 1 31-12 42p

4. Liverpool 19 12 4 3 31-15 40p

Away:

3. Man Utd 19 10 5 4 27-14 35p

10. Liverpool 19 5 3 11 21-26 18p

 

05/06:

Home:

2. Liverpool 19 15 3 1 32-8 48p

4. Man Utd 19 13 5 1 37-8 44p

Away:

1. Man Utd 19 12 3 4 35-26 39p

3. Liverpool 19 10 4 5 25-17 34p

 

06/07:

Home:

1. Man Utd 19 15 2 2 46-12 47p

2. Liverpool 19 14 4 1 39-7 46p

Away:

1.Man Utd 19 13 3 3 37-15 42p

5. Liverpool 19 6 4 9 18-20 22p

 

07/08:

Home:

1. Man Utd 19 17 1 1 47-7 52p

4. Liverpool 19 12 6 1 43-13 42p

Away:

3. Man Utd 19 10 5 4 33-15 35p

4. Liverpool 19 9 7 3 24-15 34p

 

08/09:

Home:

1. Man Utd 18 16 1 1 43-13 49p

2. Liverpool 18 11 7 0 38-12 40p

Away:

2. Liverpool 18 12 4 2 34-14 40p

3. Man Utd 18 11 4 3 24-11 37p

[paddyberger15]

Fuck the numbers, we have played some lovely football recently and have really stamped our authority on games. This is the best season we have had since we last won the title, we could end up with 86 points and most times that would win you the big pot.

OK, we squandered a few points earlier in the season and that argument has been done to death, but of course we have made progress, not even the most contrary retard could argue that we haven't.

[Guest LFD]

I don't see how you can say we haven't made progress. Which I think is what you are suggesting, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The side are on course to get 86 points, now that is 4 more than our best ever Premiership total.

[aws]

Fuck the numbers, we have played some lovely football recently and have really stamped our authority on games. This is the best season we have had since we last won the title, we could end up with 86 points and most times that would win you the big pot.

OK, we squandered a few points earlier in the season and that argument has been done to death, but of course we have made progress, not even the most contrary retard could argue that we haven't.

 

100% correct (except for the very last bit).

[hamstrung]

"You sound like Charlie Browns frickin' teacher"

[paddyberger15]

100% correct (except for the very last bit).

 

Just wanted to point out that I wasn't referring to Code when I said 'contrary retard'.

[Red Banjo]

Were (mathmatically anyway) still in the race for the title with 2 games to go. Add to the fact we've only lost twice all season. Anyone who cant call that improvement is pissed.

[aws]

Just wanted to point out that I wasn't referring to Code when I said 'contrary retard'.

 

Unlike you to be overly diplomatic!!

[The Party Boy]

Watch the match through your eyes, not a calculator.

[Dirk]

Code 72? Is that Turing machine speak for "knob head"?

[aws]

Add to the fact we've only lost twice all season.

 

Both times having gifted freaky own goals.

[Code]

I don't see how you can say we haven't made progress. Which I think is what you are suggesting, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The side are on course to get 86 points, now that is 4 more than our best ever Premiership total.

 

So as long as we get results against Chelsea and the mancs but goes backwards against the rest and are knocked out of all Cup competitions early then we have made massive progress on the whole?

 

The mancs have only got 4 points so far against the top 4 teams so far this season, I guess this means they are going backwards faster than Ronaldo drops to the floor then?

 

This season is made up by the fact we beat the mancs (and Chelsea) twice in the league apart from that we are going backwards or going nowhere compared to other seasons.

 

We`ll see what happens next season because like the mancs have shown this season if you do your job against the teams you are supposed to beat then that will be enough to win the league its not enough to having a great 4 km in a Marathon you know.

[paddyberger15]

Unlike you to be overly diplomatic!!

 

Heh! I know I know. I'm in a good mood the day. It wont last mind.

[Liquid football]

You really are hopelessly obsessed with stats!

 

You can add Villa and Everton to your table if you want. We were also undefeated against those 2.

 

So yeah, undefeated against the against the top 6, in the best league in the world (it wasn't a few years ago by the way). I think we are doing alright personally. *shakes head*

[Hermes]

 

We will most likely get our best point tally ever in the league

 

Do you think football was invented in the same year as the satellite dish?

[paddyberger15]

So as long as we get results against Chelsea and the mancs but goes backwards against the rest and are knocked out of all Cup competitions early then we have made massive progress on the whole?

 

The mancs have only got 4 points so far against the top 4 teams so far this season, I guess this means they are going backwards faster than Ronaldo drops to the floor then?

 

This season is made up by the fact we beat the mancs (and Chelsea) twice in the league apart from that we are going backwards or going nowhere compared to other seasons.

 

We`ll see what happens next season because like the mancs have shown this season if you do your job against the teams you are supposed to beat then that will be enough to win the league its not enough to having a great 4 km in a Marathon you know.

 

When I said 'contrary retard', I was in fact in referring to Code. Sorry about the earlier confusion.

[Barrington Womble]

Fuck the numbers, we have played some lovely football recently and have really stamped our authority on games. This is the best season we have had since we last won the title, we could end up with 86 points and most times that would win you the big pot.

OK, we squandered a few points earlier in the season and that argument has been done to death, but of course we have made progress, not even the most contrary retard could argue that we haven't.

 

What do you define as "most times". In the last 10 seasons that would have won you the league just twice (the most recent being 2003) unless it proves to be enough this year which does not look likely at this time. Things have moved on since we last won the league and a total of 86 points (which we still don't have btw) unfortunately is no longer enough - in fact 4 times during that period 90+ pts would have been required to win it.

 

09 ????? 86+

08 mancs 87

07 mancs 89

06 chelsea 91

05 chelsea 95

04 arsenal 90

03 mancs 83

02 arsenal 87

01 mancs 80

00 mancs 90

[Bogman]

Fuck the numbers, we have played some lovely football recently and have really stamped our authority on games. This is the best season we have had since we last won the title, we could end up with 86 points and most times that would win you the big pot.

OK, we squandered a few points earlier in the season and that argument has been done to death, but of course we have made progress, not even the most contrary retard could argue that we haven't.

 

 

 

Correct on all parts.

 

And yes, course we've fucking improved, we've been in a title race all the way up until May.

 

Long may it continue.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Bogman
fat fingers

[ToxtethTerror]

league title challenge playing wonderful football towards the end. Thats all we wanted, its a giant leap in the right direction.

[snez1]

This is ridiculous.

 

We've challanegd for the league. We've never done that before it's progress. Fact.

 

When we weren't beating the top 3 people said that wasn't good enough.

 

When we beat the top 3 and then drop a couple of more points against worse teams, that's not good enough.

 

We all know we've not quite done what we should have this season, but we've not been far away either. I couldn't give a shiny shite about the Carling Cup, the F.A cup was a genuine blow and the Champions League is a lottery to a certain extent. We're among the top 4 clubs in that competition, easily, and unfortunatly for an hour at Anfield, Chelsea were better than us. That's football. They're a good side and we're a good side and on that night they got the small details right.

 

For years people have banged on about the league being our bread and butter and how we MUST mount a challange. When we finally do it people still fucking whine about the Carling Cup and which teams weve taken our points off. There are enough negative points to the end of this season, do we really need to moan about oher shit that is pretty incidental in the bigger picture?

[Guest ShoePiss]

So as long as we get results against Chelsea and the mancs but goes backwards against the rest and are knocked out of all Cup competitions early then we have made massive progress on the whole?

 

The mancs have only got 4 points so far against the top 4 teams so far this season, I guess this means they are going backwards faster than Ronaldo drops to the floor then?

 

This season is made up by the fact we beat the mancs (and Chelsea) twice in the league apart from that we are going backwards or going nowhere compared to other seasons.

 

We`ll see what happens next season because like the mancs have shown this season if you do your job against the teams you are supposed to beat then that will be enough to win the league its not enough to having a great 4 km in a Marathon you know.

 

So in order to prove your opinion correct you have to take away 4 wins from our season, great.

 

We have progressed. It's simple, we should finish second in the league, possibly on 86pts. We have mounted a title challenge and I think we had to go through this before we win it next season.

[paddyberger15]

league title challenge playing wonderful football towards the end. Thats all we wanted, its a giant leap in the right direction.

 

Rashid might be as mad as a Badger, but he knows.

[Original202]

We might have picked up less points against the dross this season compared to 05/06 but aren't the dross better than they were 3 years ago?

 

They've all spent more money and there has been a bigger emphasis on sides playing more organised, defensive football - or rather, they've become better at it.

 

I suppose to compare it, you'd have to ask whether the team that won the FA Cup in 2006 would beat this years team - and I don't think it would.

 

So we've improved, but not necessarily any more than the league as a whole has improved.

[aws]

When I said 'contrary retard', I was in fact in referring to Code. Sorry about the earlier confusion.

 

Glad you're feeling better.

[The 5th Benitel]

We're theoretically still in it with a week left in the season which reprsents obvious progress. We've been playing entertaining football that has seen us winning games. The fact that we're expecting to win games now means a lot, we've turned Anfield back into a place teams are afraid of playing.

 

As regards the Champions League, we got knocked out cos of set pieces so unless you wanna go down the zonal marking route there's not much to debate. We're lucky enough to now expect to get to the semis but that's not gonna happen every year.

 

The other cups were a disgrace but that was when we were playing negative shite and we've clearly changed since then.

 

So i think we've progressed but we need to improve again nex year if we're gonna get number 19.