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Howard Webb


RobbieOR
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The attitude of the fans means fuck all. The club should be doing something about it. And so should other clubs.

 

Genuine question: In your view, why do you think nothing is being done about it?

 

The attitude of the fans up and down the land does.

 

I'd say 90% of match going fans in and out of England know what happens with the Mancs isn't right (whatever the reason) but most just laugh it off, and by extension the media does too, quite openly in fact.

 

As long as the general public who are football fans sit by with that attitude nothing will ever change. Football fans are the grassroots, without us the game wouldn't exist. We all need to be the mechanism for change.

 

Unfortunately though most people would rather read the S*n and call Suarez a racist, talk about what wife Terry has banged and have an ole chuckle at Arry and his dodgy finances.

 

Fact is, the clubs won't do anything because being honest about it Tom its clear to see the Football Association isn't interested in rocking the money boat and they arn't interested in change.

 

Any club that would kick up a stink about United and make life difficult would be fucking pariahs at the FA table.

 

I think you'll dispute that but I'd suggest its naive to believe those who run the FA would let it go so easily, they really really wouldn't. They would make the club's life a living hell so to speak.

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Fact is, the clubs won't do anything because being honest about it Tom its clear to see the Football Association isn't interested in rocking the money boat and they arn't interested in change.

 

Any club that would kick up a stink about United and make life difficult would be fucking pariahs at the FA table.

 

I think you'll dispute that but I'd suggest its naive to believe those who run the FA would let it go so easily, they really really wouldn't. They would make the club's life a living hell so to speak.

 

I definitely won't dispute that.

 

But if the clubs are aware of this and they don't act together, well then what is the point of actually turning up every week? Fans, managers, players...whoever

 

Why isn't Rodgers calling Benitez, Wenger etc and sorting it out? Something is very wrong if what people here are saying is true, and the remainder of the clubs are sitting on their hands watching it happen.

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I definitely won't dispute that.

 

But if the clubs are aware of this and they don't act together, well then what is the point of actually turning up every week? Fans, managers, players...whoever

 

Why isn't Rodgers calling Benitez, Wenger etc and sorting it out? Something is very wrong if what people here are saying is true, and the remainder of the clubs are sitting on their hands watching it happen.

 

Agree 100%.

 

I'd just put it down to human nature more than anything Tom.

 

People inherently are afraid to stand out from the crowd and cause a fuss.

In this case, its a multi-billion dollar industry which makes it even worse.

 

Plus if theres no brown envelopes or dodgy favours ever being done, how do you really prove anything.

Its hard to make a case for bias or undue influence being exerted, which in most cases it probably just boils down to.

 

Being honest, if I was getting a piece of that pie I'd be hesitant to rock the boat also. That probably makes me a hypocrite but if I was getting paid a million a year I wouldn't give a toss.

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I definitely won't dispute that.

 

But if the clubs are aware of this and they don't act together, well then what is the point of actually turning up every week? Fans, managers, players...whoever

 

Why isn't Rodgers calling Benitez, Wenger etc and sorting it out? Something is very wrong if what people here are saying is true, and the remainder of the clubs are sitting on their hands watching it happen.

 

most clubs are happy to be on the PL gravy train and aren't the least bit interested in stirring up any shit.

 

It would take a journalist uncovering incontrovertible proof of corruption to cause any change. Like many here I think it isn't corruption but rather defference to Ferguson's influence and stature.

 

 

In the end its clear Ferguson is incredibly insecure. I mean honestly to still be fighting and clawing for every possible victory (on the pitch, in the transfer market, etc etc) at age 71 after everything he has already obtained is demented. I'd say he is only as happy as his last result and when he is finally forced out (which they will have to do unless he dies in harness) he'll be bitter and will seeth at the injustice.

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Agree 100%.

 

I'd just put it down to human nature more than anything Tom.

 

People inherently are afraid to stand out from the crowd and cause a fuss.

In this case, its a multi-billion dollar industry which makes it even worse.

 

Plus if theres no brown envelopes or dodgy favours ever being done, how do you really prove anything.

Its hard to make a case for bias or undue influence being exerted, which in most cases it probably just boils down to.

 

Being honest, if I was getting a piece of that pie I'd be hesitant to rock the boat also. That probably makes me a hypocrite but if I was getting paid a million a year I wouldn't give a toss.

 

Let's face it, it's sadly only been made worse by him building his power base and malign influence over such a long period. You've got a man in charge of referees who was renowned for never giving penalties against United while awarding them as generously in their favour as we do 8 figure fees on average footballers. You've got United's Chief Executive in a senior position within the national governing body. You've got the press knowing if they upset him they lose the best seat in town with regards to their career.

 

Little he does in this regard is without a reason and much thought; it's why the point should be made whenever the wider football world tries to compare his trophy success with the likes of Bob, who never resorted to "gamesmanship" and using his position to pollute fair play or obtain a dictator level domination. Even someone like Clough was campaigning to stop players haranguing referees back in his day, and interested more in the quaint old notion of being the better team.

 

Kenny has always been dismissive of the press at the best of times, and last season was often genuinely grating to watch, but for all the terrible reception he received so widely across the media, whenever asked about another club, or a particular player, or whatever happened to be outrage du jour, he always showed great dignity - refusing to offer opinions where they weren't his business, meddle with other clubs or disrespect a competitor. I would imagine he did a lot to thaw the prickly attitude from Everton towards the club with the gracious and respectful way he spoke about them before during and after derbies in his short second tenure.

 

It speaks volumes about the power being exerted at Old Trafford and how weaselly most wanting to stay on side of it are, that the contrast between that old school approach and Ferguson's constant guttersnipe attacks on all and sundry was never pointed out, while Kenny was hounded from all sides as the venerable knight sailed along demanding our best player be sold on live TV without a fucking murmur from the fourth estate, among other beneath contempt hallmark Ferguson braying. Pretty sure Kenny never has advised another team's black players how to represent their own position on racism either.

 

Then again, Ferguson managed to use the phrase "I think you have got to cut through the venom of it" while talking about Rafa Benitez, who for all his faults has a fairly obviously mild if not bland public persona, without anyone bothering to add to the misty-eyed cliches of him ushering giants who'd crossed him out of the door during his fairytale stewardship of United, that Satire had now found it's position filled by someone else as well.

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most clubs are happy to be on the PL gravy train and aren't the least bit interested in stirring up any shit.

 

 

You think Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Chelsea are all merely 'happy to be on the PL gravy train'?

 

I think it's odd they don't make a collective official complaint. Something would seem to be wrong. Very wrong.

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Let's face it, it's sadly only been made worse by him building his power base and malign influence over such a long period.etc

 

 

 

There is much in what you say in that post in full, success, longevity, cash, understanding the system are a potent cocktail, and one that the mancs are very good at working.

 

Your analysis of Kenny and the press is a bit askew. Kenny never liked appearing in front of the cameras and despite his daughter Kelly’s pleas, never reportedly took up the many offers of help in that area, by contrast, Rodgers voraciously devoured every FA course on the media going.

 

But his relationship with the print media has been consistently excellent. His golf days hugely popular with the press, his company both sought after and enjoyed. Very close to his biographer Henry Winter, who provided the authoritative reports of the final year of Rafa’s tenure as a result, Brian Reade also found favour as his subsequent in the Mirror column demonstrates, and he was hugely helpful to up and coming mirror man James Nursey. Far from being dismissive of the press, he has skilfully worked with the print media for a long time.

 

One of Rodger’s big challenges will be to forge his own media relationships, to be fair he has done that well to date.

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Your analysis of Kenny and the press is a bit askew. Kenny never liked appearing in front of the cameras and despite his daughter Kelly’s pleas, never reportedly took up the many offers of help in that area, by contrast, Rodgers voraciously devoured every FA course on the media going.

 

But his relationship with the print media has been consistently excellent. His golf days hugely popular with the press, his company both sought after and enjoyed. Very close to his biographer Henry Winter, who provided the authoritative reports of the final year of Rafa’s tenure as a result, Brian Reade also found favour as his subsequent in the Mirror column demonstrates, and he was hugely helpful to up and coming mirror man James Nursey. Far from being dismissive of the press, he has skilfully worked with the print media for a long time.

 

I mean very specifically the way he spoke to them in his official capacity, in post-match interviews, press conferences, etc - particularly on camera. His treatment of them at such times has never really altered since first time round, albeit in his first few months back at the helm he seemed more relaxed and jovial.

 

You could palpably feel Kenny's contempt for it, as he's a football manager first, second and third, and wasn't interested in justifying the internal machinations of our club to the media or trying to plant seeds that may bear some crooked influence further down the line, while Alastair Campbell's close friend is voraciously interested in bending them to his will as he not only sees the points advantage this can lead to, but is self-evidently a lesser man in that regard than The King.

 

Kenny received widespread criticism last year - obviously not from every last journalist, but it came from all directions, mediums and class of media outlet. I must have missed any of the even-handed praise which came his way for adhering to a more principled style, that contributed less to the increasingly poisonous atmosphere within modern football the media are so happy to carp on about - therefore providing less soundbites and hyperbole for them to keep selling us football's 24 hour soap opera; so fucking spirit-crushingly tedious to those who just love the game itself and loathe the external frippery - or the contrast between this and Ferguson's barking and spewing, constantly aimed at generating ill feeling between persons and clubs within the game to score points off the pitch or assist in the accumulation of them on it.

 

I recall one particularly awful piece on Kenny last season asking if the stress of managing Liverpool was becoming too much a la post-Hillsborough, after we lost 1-0 away to Stoke within the first 10 games! That was even before the Suarez debacle, when open-season was called on one of the game's greatest ever figures, who unlike Ferguson was a genuine all-timer as a player as well. Perhaps that explains the cunt's overall insecurity which scottthecanuck hit the nail on the head with before.

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You think Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Chelsea are all merely 'happy to be on the PL gravy train'?

 

I think it's odd they don't make a collective official complaint. Something would seem to be wrong. Very wrong.

 

Theres definitely some merit to the argument that they should make a "collective" effort.

 

I don't think the lack of such an effort suggests that all those clubs believe everything is fine and dandy. I'd bet if you got Wenger, Benitez, Mancini together with Rodgers and all the respective chairmen of each club in a room without being recorded, they'd all tell you straight up that United have a bit of an unfair advantage in the league due to referee(What the reasons are for that, we could argue all day, regardless...)

 

I'd hazard a guess even Fergie's acolytes in the LMA like Allardyce and Co. would tell you the same thing in private. I think Allardyce in fairness to the big fat fuck has actually hinted at it in the past.

 

Anyway, why theres never been a collective effort to do something is a pretty fair question. Maybe somebody smarter can answer it.

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I think it's the obvious question and one, we as fans, should be asking of our clubs.

 

Maybe at the next Rodgers fans' press conference.

 

Its actually something it'd be nice to see asked.

 

Obviously Rodgers would give a stock diplomatic answer for the most part.

 

But it might nice to reiterate to him its something that needs highlighting as often as possible and the fans are pissed off. I'm sure hes probably well aware though.

 

But he can't do it alone as you yourself say. It would need to be a collective effort to change things.

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I mean very specifically the way he spoke to them in his official capacity, in post-match interviews, press conferences, etc - particularly on camera. His treatment of them at such times has never really altered since first time round, albeit in his first few months back at the helm he seemed more relaxed and jovial. etc

 

Any of us can only call it as we see it.

 

I don’t think we witnessed contempt at Kenny’s broadcast conferences, I think we saw a man doing something he did not like doing, did not want to do, and was not good at doing by his own admission. His post match conferences in the second half of the season pretty much sealed his fate with his own words. The press didn’t drive him out- his results did. The press enjoyed him being back , he was, and is a big story, without him, some of the magic dust ( sales) is gone. They would much rather have an interview with Kenny Dalglish than Brendan Rodgers.

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I think black and white decisions will be given both for and against when the ref sees them, but questionable ones won’t.

 

This is basically it. When the decision is so clear-cut that it needs to be acted upon, refs will generally act upon it even if it goes against the Mancs. What is irritating is that the Mancs are seemingly allowed to get away with an awful lot that players and management of other clubs get penalised and disciplined for.

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Any of us can only call it as we see it.

 

I don’t think we witnessed contempt at Kenny’s broadcast conferences, I think we saw a man doing something he did not like doing, did not want to do, and was not good at doing by his own admission. His post match conferences in the second half of the season pretty much sealed his fate with his own words. The press didn’t drive him out- his results did. The press enjoyed him being back , he was, and is a big story, without him, some of the magic dust ( sales) is gone. They would much rather have an interview with Kenny Dalglish than Brendan Rodgers.

 

You're answering something I've not suggested. I'm not implying the press themselves lost Kenny his job, though the difference between he and Rodgers' respective natural approach to the media is unlikely to be a coincidence from the perspective of our PR savvy US owners. Irrespective of semantics or reasons why, it would not be credible to deny he was simply not interested in furthering many of their questions and played them with a straight bat - he rarely if ever intentionally gave them the angle they were looking for.

 

I'm also certain they loved having him back, but that's no guarantee of him receiving a good press. They love having Suarez here as well as he's a regular source of output, but those sales you mention come steadily from submitting critical copy and easy sensationalism. What is more difficult, is facing up to the person very few want to have a pop at, as has been well illustrated in the non-football world with the recent Savile expose. Far easier to join the herd than to isolate yourself against a powerful and intimidating figure, where they may be repercussions for yourself and your career.

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Someone touched before about the fear of any "perspiring" ©Duncan Jenkins journalists that you will be banned from Old Trafford if it upsets Slur. Imagine a paper had the balls to do it?

 

The BBC got banned for interviews, do you think they have reported Man U games/news/rumours straight down the middle since the ban was lifted by Whiskey Nose?

 

Going back to Sunday's game, here's my prediction: A dive by one of the usual suspects in the first 15 minutes, Webb waves it away. We all think "Aye aye, he is actually playing by the rules here?" Within half an hour he turns down a certain United free kick on the outside of the box. "HE'S FUCKIN BOSS HOWARD WEBB"..... Second half, Scholes is barely breathed on and a penalty is awarded.

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