Something I've been meaning to get off my chest for some time, regarding Rafa.

[Tom R]

We finished 5th! and 4th, we were knocked out of the FA up by Palace and Portsmouth, the UEFA by Celtic and Marseille, we didnt have Chelsea's money to contend with! We were fucking abysmal as you well know.

 

It's somehwat ireellevant now, but we also struggled to finish fifth under Rafa as well. And we were beaten to fourth by an unbelievably shitty Everton side.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no comparison to be made between us and valencia, both pre-benitez??

 

You could just as easily say that we regularly beat Man United and we hammered Arsenal 4-0. You could also say that we'd wno a treble not long before, including a European trophy. So what if we didn't reach a champions league final?? What relevance does that have on Valencia's league position and on our own???

 

Domestically we were almost identical. Both struggling to win the league in countries dominated by 2 or 3 far richer clubs. Both finishing anywhere between 9th and 2nd in the 15 years or so years preceeding rafa.

 

You're a total fucking mentalist if you're denying those similarities and you're being stubborn cunt just for the sake of it.

 

Winning the leagu on the resources we have is the EXACT reason why he was brought here. You can deny that all you like, but you're wrong and you fucking know it.

[Tom R]

So you still want him sacked ?

 

Yes.

 

you have to draw the line somewhere. We have exactly the same problems now that we had after his second season and yet he still hasn't addressed them.

 

I see no reason and have no evidence to suggest that he can and will do that this summer.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Yes.

 

you have to draw the line somewhere. We have exactly the same problems now that we had after his second season and yet he still hasn't addressed them.

 

I see no reason and have no evidence to suggest that he can and will do that this summer.

 

replace with?

[hamstrung]

 

Both the mancs and Madrid have used a system and set up which have played it right into our hands, these games have never been the problem, not even when we used to lose 1-0 from a scrappy goal against the mancs, we have been the better team during these matches the last couple of seasons but this time around we took our chances.

 

 

You sure about that?

 

Before the season, results against the other top 4 was seen as 1 of the biggest areas for improvement if we were to mount a challenge.

 

For something which has "never been a problem" we've been incredibly shit at it. I am sure beyond any doubt that you'll have produced some sort of statistical analysis about it in seasons past.

[Whelan]

It's somehwat ireellevant now, but we also struggled to finish fifth under Rafa as well. And we were beaten to fourth by an unbelievably shitty Everton side.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no comparison to be made between us and valencia, both pre-benitez??

 

You could just as easily say that we regularly beat Man United and we hammered Arsenal 4-0. You could also say that we'd wno a treble not long before, including a European trophy. So what if we didn't reach a champions league final?? What relevance does that have on Valencia's league position and on our own???

 

Domestically we were almost identical. Both struggling to win the league in countries dominated by 2 or 3 far richer clubs. Both finishing anywhere between 9th and 2nd in the 15 years or so years preceeding rafa.

 

You're a total fucking mentalist if you're denying those similarities and you're being stubborn cunt just for the sake of it.

 

Winning the leagu on the resources we have is the EXACT reason why he was brought here. You can deny that all you like, but you're wrong and you fucking know it.

 

Fucking right I am being a stubborn cunt! You don't get to be this deluded without some form of stubborness!!!!! I rate Lucas FFS

 

Ged almost got us there, almost, but he fucked up big time in 2002, Diouf, Cherou and Diao, they weren't needed and we went backards from the moment Diao scored against Leeds.

 

We finished 5th in Rafa's first season, Ged finished 5th in his 4th!

 

I am not talking about prospective leagues, I am talking about Us after finishing 2nd! and Valencia playing each other and us being totally and utterly outplayed, you can't get a better comparison than actually comparing the two teams playing against each other!!!

[Tom R]

Fucking right I am being a stubborn cunt! You don't get to be this deluded without some form of stubborness!!!!! I rate Lucas FFS

 

Ged almost got us there, almost, but he fucked up big time in 2002, Diouf, Cherou and Diao, they weren't needed and we went backards from the moment Diao scored against Leeds.

 

We finished 5th in Rafa's first season, Ged finished 5th in his 4th!

 

I am not talking about prospective leagues, I am talking about Us after finishing 2nd! and Valencia playing each other and us being totally and utterly outplayed, you can't get a better comparison than actually comparing the two teams playing against each other!!!

 

 

rafa was in charge of Valencia when they played us off teh park you loon!

 

How is that possibly a comparison of both clubs, pre rafa?

 

Now who's making the unfair comparisons!

[HJohal]

Rafa was brought in because he had won two league titles with Valencia on limited resources compared to Barca and Real. When he joined Valencia they were in very much the same position that we were in when he joined us. Replace real and Barca with Man U and Chelsea and you get the picture. It was a no brainer.

It was extremely widely publicised at the time that this was the precise reason he was here.

Rick Parry said it.

David Moores said it.

Rafa himself said it.

And all the fans said it.

 

Where the hell were you????

 

How could you even possibly suggest that his remit is NOT to win the league, and merely to "challenge for honours"?

Pile of horse shit that mate. Rafa's remit is exactly the same remit as has been for any LIverpool Manager before him. To win the league. That's exactly why we've got through so many in the last 20 years!!

The day that isn't the remit is the day we're well and truly finished as a football club.

 

If we employed a new manager this summer under the current circumstances, do you think he would do better or worse than Rafa?

 

So £20M net transfer budget, political unrest in the boardroom etc

[aws]

Yes.

 

you have to draw the line somewhere. We have exactly the same problems now that we had after his second season and yet he still hasn't addressed them.

 

I see no reason and have no evidence to suggest that he can and will do that this summer.

 

But why do you assume that the next manager would be any better? The challenge for the league is getting harder not easier.

 

The next guy might have us scrapping for a UEFA cup place again. Would you really want to start all over again on the next five year plan?

[Whelan]

rafa was in charge of Valencia when they played us off teh park you loon!

 

How is that possibly a comparison of both clubs, pre rafa?

 

Now who's making the unfair comparisons!

 

You fucking compared Houlliers Liverpool with Rafa's Valencia! Not me! I was happy with just being hopelessly deluded!!

[philyhamann]

I don't want him sacked, just not given a 5 year contract cause I don't think he deserves it. I don't really see an alternative to him at the moment, and I'm still holding out hope that he'll address the problems. If we still have the same problems next season then I can't see it ever changing, so why should we keep him? It won't help that next season Chelsea will have a decent manager, and Essien back.

[Guest ShoePiss]

If we employed a new manager this summer under the current circumstances, do you think he would do better or worse than Rafa?

 

So £20M net transfer budget, political unrest in the boardroom etc

 

This is it, lots of shouting 'he should be fired' but I haven't seen one realistic replacement mentioned. I could listen to the shouting if there was something constructive, fair and balanced to read but there isn't. It's just a load of hot air.

 

In my opinion there isn't anyone out there that can do a better job working under the conditions a Liverpool manager currently has to.

 

Until those wanting Rafa fired come up with something constructive I'll just believe them to be spoiled bastards demanding someone's head because they haven't got their own way.

[hamstrung]

- Rafa's ace

- Rafa's shit

- Yeah but who else is there?

- Mourinho

- Mourinho's a cunt

- Yeah but our cunt

- Bread and Butter

- Quaresma

- Fin

[Antynwa]

My issue is that this year, our problems have nothing to do with money, Parry, or Twit or Twat.

[Tom R]

But why do you assume that the next manager would be any better? The challenge for the league is getting harder not easier.

 

The next guy might have us scrapping for a UEFA cup place again. Would you really want to start all over again on the next five year plan?

 

You can never know that can you? We didn't know that rafa would lead us to a European Cup but we took the chance on him and it paid off.

 

There's no guarantees, but you can make an informed opinion based on previous years. And my personal view is that I don't thik Rafa can win this league, for reasons that have been gone over a hundred times.

 

I think Rafa has done a job in getting us to where we are now. But I honestly don't think we're any further ahead now than we were after his second year. Do you? Does anybody really believe that we're in the position we're in now because we've improved, or is it because both Chelsea and Man U had a shocking start, and we actually a bit rubbish?

Surely we're all in agreement that it's more the latter than the former.

 

And does anybody believe that we have a stronger squad now than we did in 2005/06? I certainly don't. We may have a stronger spine to the team, but beyond that I'd say it's considerably weaker.

 

I rate Rafa. Of course I do. And he's done a good job to get is here, but It's like he's hit his own ceiling and i'd like to see a fresh head come in and improve upon what he's built.

 

Say what you want about Houllier, and we all know it went disasterously tits up in the end! But we all also have to admit that he also gave us back some much missing pride in giving us some trophies and getting us back amongst Europe's elite.

Rafa has then taken us another step further but he's not got us any further in the last 2 seasons imo.

 

I'm a risk taker, and I'd like to risk a fresh man again, just like we did with rafa. I'd much rather take the risk on a well qualified a new man at the helm than risk another five years of bizarre subs, bad signings, cautious approach play and weakening of squads in mid season, and disappointments come May, put it that way.

[Guest TK-421]

I was joking, for heaven's sake. It was a response to SpeedyG's snide remark.

 

PS I'm not a football manager because I'm too good looking.

 

It's so hard to tell these days!

[JMARKH]

What concerns me about Rafa is just when you think he is learning and has got it sussed he often refers back to being over cautious and becomes infuriating again. I also wonder who the fall out will be with next season as I am sure he will be at the centre of more unrest at some point or other.

[aws]

You can never know that can you? We didn't know that rafa would lead us to a European Cup but we took the chance on him and it paid off.

 

There's no guarantees, but you can make an informed opinion based on previous years. And my personal view is that I don't thik Rafa can win this league, for reasons that have been gone over a hundred times.

 

I think Rafa has done a job in getting us to where we are now. But I honestly don't think we're any further ahead now than we were after his second year. Do you? Does anybody really believe that we're in the position we're in now because we've improved, or is it because both Chelsea and Man U had a shocking start, and we actually a bit rubbish?

Surely we're all in agreement that it's more the latter than the former.

 

And does anybody believe that we have a stronger squad now than we did in 2005/06? I certainly don't. We may have a stronger spine to the team, but beyond that I'd say it's considerably weaker.

 

I rate Rafa. Of course I do. And he's done a good job to get is here, but It's like he's hit his own ceiling and i'd like to see a fresh head come in and improve upon what he's built.

 

Say what you want about Houllier, and we all know it went disasterously tits up in the end! But we all also have to admit that he also gave us back some much missing pride in giving us some trophies and getting us back amongst Europe's elite.

Rafa has then taken us another step further but he's not got us any further in the last 2 seasons imo.

 

I'm a risk taker, and I'd like to risk a fresh man again, just like we did with rafa. I'd much rather take the risk on a well qualified a new man at the helm than risk another five years of bizarre subs, bad signings, cautious approach play and weakening of squads in mid season, and disappointments come May, put it that way.

 

Fair enough.

 

Personally I think we've improved significantly over his tenure - not a smooth upward line of progression but a jerky graph line with peaks and troughs setting an over-riding upward trend.

 

From being embarassed by Marseille and Celtic, we're regularly embarassing the best in Europe.

 

From being beaten regularly by the rest of the "Big Four", we're now handing out lessons to them.

 

From looking at everton's results and shitting it over fourth, we're looking at the mancs' fixture list in the middle of march.

 

I'd give him his contract and if he gets a reasonable amount of cash to buy in players but still hasn't brought in silverware in the next two seasons I'd say the time is right to take a gamble and start all over again. But I think it would be a big gamble whenever the decision is taken because we'll be extremely lucky to find someone better.

[redrosetints]

Yes.

 

you have to draw the line somewhere. We have exactly the same problems now that we had after his second season and yet he still hasn't addressed them.

 

I see no reason and have no evidence to suggest that he can and will do that this summer.

 

Well if thats how you feel mate.

 

I see evidence all around me that says he will get there, I see that he's taken two steps forward, one back this season. Last year we couldn't beat the top sides, this season we are and have more points, but have stumbled at the lesser sides thats progress.

 

Provided we finish in the top 3 we've gone 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, thats our best league finishes since the Premiership began, at a time when its getting harder to win it, not easier when there is more competition and the relative strenght of the lesser sides is at its highest, possibly ever.

 

It may be 20 years, but the league and LFC have changed in those 20 years. When Dalglsh left, we had the money to buy the best players, still had a large part of a title winning squad and at that stage it was right to demand a better fist of it all.

 

But now we have a squad built by Rafa. With Reina, Carra, Skrtel, Masch, Hyppia, Xabi, Gerrard and Torres all world class a huge leap forward from the unflushable turds of Geds reign ( Of course 3 of those arent Rafa signings, but the other 5 are amongst the best in the world at their positions)

 

We are at our strongest now for those 20 years, which is why IMHO its exactly NOT the time to be sacking Rafa.

 

I think I need to lie down, someone wanting rafa sacked after this week and this season, madness, sorry Tom, not meant to insult you, but to me it is quite frankly baffling.

[stringvest]

Would Moyes do a better or worse job? And if you think you can answer that, you must show your working out.

 

I don't know that he'd do any worse. He certainly gets the most out of his pitiful resources, which is something Rafa does only rarely in the league.

 

I think the discussion is actually irrelevant, as it would appear that Benitez will get a new contract, but I find it a useful watermark, measuring our manager's performance against that of the rest of the league. For example, in Houllier's last season I was convinced that any of the other premiership managers would have done a better job!

[redrosetints]

You can never know that can you? We didn't know that rafa would lead us to a European Cup but we took the chance on him and it paid off.

 

There's no guarantees, but you can make an informed opinion based on previous years. And my personal view is that I don't thik Rafa can win this league, for reasons that have been gone over a hundred times.

 

I think Rafa has done a job in getting us to where we are now. But I honestly don't think we're any further ahead now than we were after his second year. Do you? Does anybody really believe that we're in the position we're in now because we've improved, or is it because both Chelsea and Man U had a shocking start, and we actually a bit rubbish?

Surely we're all in agreement that it's more the latter than the former.

 

And does anybody believe that we have a stronger squad now than we did in 2005/06? I certainly don't. We may have a stronger spine to the team, but beyond that I'd say it's considerably weaker.

 

I rate Rafa. Of course I do. And he's done a good job to get is here, but It's like he's hit his own ceiling and i'd like to see a fresh head come in and improve upon what he's built.

 

Say what you want about Houllier, and we all know it went disasterously tits up in the end! But we all also have to admit that he also gave us back some much missing pride in giving us some trophies and getting us back amongst Europe's elite.

Rafa has then taken us another step further but he's not got us any further in the last 2 seasons imo.

 

I'm a risk taker, and I'd like to risk a fresh man again, just like we did with rafa. I'd much rather take the risk on a well qualified a new man at the helm than risk another five years of bizarre subs, bad signings, cautious approach play and weakening of squads in mid season, and disappointments come May, put it that way.

 

Totally disagree, were on course to beat our 82 point haul, that can happen irrespective of what Chelsea and United do. And IMHO this is one of the greatest united sides ever. They are on for over 90 points, at a time when the league is at its most competitive. I agree Chelsea have struggled, but even more reason to continue with stability, look what can happen when you chop and change even with a world class squad.

 

As for our squad, I think the first 11 is stronger now than in 06, absolutely.

 

Masch, Aurelio, Torres are better than Sissoko, Warnock and Crouch while we still have Sami who has seen two excellent young guns in Agger and Skrtel come in. I think the squad overall is not strong enough, but i dont think its weaker than in 06 and certainly not the first 11.

[Tom R]

Fair enough.

 

Personally I think we've improved significantly over his tenure - not a smooth upward line of progression but a jerky graph line with peaks and troughs setting an over-riding upward trend.

 

From being embarassed by Marseille and Celtic, we're regularly embarassing the best in Europe.

 

From being beaten regularly by the rest of the "Big Four", we're now handing out lessons to them.

 

From looking at everton's results and shitting it over fourth, we're looking at the mancs' fixture list in the middle of march.

I'd give him his contract and if he gets a reasonable amount of cash to buy in players but still hasn't brought in silverware in the next two seasons I'd say the time is right to take a gamble and start all over again. But I think it would be a big gamble whenever the decision is taken because we'll be extremely lucky to find someone better.

 

 

there's sound logic there mate, deffo. But would it really be starting all over again? I don't think it would. the squad is in far better shape than it was when rafa took over from Houllier.

 

It's not a rebuilding process by any stretch. It's just addressing the issues that have been there for nearly three years and then pushing on.

[redrosetints]

Would Moyes do a better or worse job? And if you think you can answer that, you must show your working out.

 

I don't know that he'd do any worse. He certainly gets the most out of his pitiful resources, which is something Rafa does only rarely in the league.

 

I think the discussion is actually irrelevant, as it would appear that Benitez will get a new contract, but I find it a useful watermark, measuring our manager's performance against that of the rest of the league. For example, in Houllier's last season I was convinced that any of the other premiership managers would have done a better job!

 

I think its fair to say the nature and demands of managing at Evertons level is far different to ours. Look what happened when they did make the CL, they failed, failed again in the UEFA and then had a poor season.

 

Moyes has made Everton a UEFA cup team, but by the same token Rafa has made us a regular Cl team, one where we arent always looking over our shoulder at who is in 5th, but to the stage now where we are looking forward to those above us.

[Catch22]

You can never know that can you? We didn't know that rafa would lead us to a European Cup but we took the chance on him and it paid off.

 

There's no guarantees, but you can make an informed opinion based on previous years. And my personal view is that I don't thik Rafa can win this league, for reasons that have been gone over a hundred times.

 

I think Rafa has done a job in getting us to where we are now. But I honestly don't think we're any further ahead now than we were after his second year. Do you? Does anybody really believe that we're in the position we're in now because we've improved, or is it because both Chelsea and Man U had a shocking start, and we actually a bit rubbish?

Surely we're all in agreement that it's more the latter than the former.

 

And does anybody believe that we have a stronger squad now than we did in 2005/06? I certainly don't. We may have a stronger spine to the team, but beyond that I'd say it's considerably weaker.

 

I rate Rafa. Of course I do. And he's done a good job to get is here, but It's like he's hit his own ceiling and i'd like to see a fresh head come in and improve upon what he's built.

 

Say what you want about Houllier, and we all know it went disasterously tits up in the end! But we all also have to admit that he also gave us back some much missing pride in giving us some trophies and getting us back amongst Europe's elite.

Rafa has then taken us another step further but he's not got us any further in the last 2 seasons imo.

 

I'm a risk taker, and I'd like to risk a fresh man again, just like we did with rafa. I'd much rather take the risk on a well qualified a new man at the helm than risk another five years of bizarre subs, bad signings, cautious approach play and weakening of squads in mid season, and disappointments come May, put it that way.

 

 

 

You're a risk-taker?

 

Yet you strongly criticise Rafa for cutting his losses quickly with Keane, which any risk-taker not from the "Merson school" would consider essential money-management

 

No-one has ever run a successful risk business without the ability to acknowledge mistakes quickly & takes losses on them.

[23CARRAGOLD]

We now have a manager in charge of our club who has given us Champions League football every single year and in the said Champions League itself has given us a realistic chance of winning it nearly every year.

 

Alongside that we have seen the team progress in the league this year. At the start of this season most people I knew said they just wanted to be in a title race at the business end. I feel that with 9 games to go we are in that race.

 

Alright we could and maybe should be closer or even top but the closeness to the top that we are now is progress in my book.

 

The press in my eyes play a big part in influencing most of our sheepish support into turning on Rafa with all the bullshit written about him and said on t.v.

 

If Inter bin Mourinho where do you think they'll go looking? Along with some of the biggest clubs in Europe they'll be sniffing round Rafa because the mans top quality and they know it. Just hope some of our gobshite support realise it before its too late.

[Tom R]

You're a risk-taker?

 

Yet you strongly criticise Rafa for cutting his losses quickly with Keane, which any risk-taker not from the "Merson school" would consider essential money-management

 

No-one has ever run a successful risk business without the ability to acknowledge mistakes quickly & takes losses on them.

 

Oh, go away will you. Are you a fucking accountant or a football fan?

 

That was one of the shittiest pieces busines of all fucking time.

 

Stop defending it. It's fucking pathetic.