Something I've been meaning to get off my chest for some time, regarding Rafa.

[INTORRESTING]

What could rafa have done in the 5 years to make people happy about him?

 

He has won 1 cl and 1 fa cup

what do people think he should have won? 2 cl's and 2 titles maybe?

I am intrigued.

[Tom R]

Where does it say that!

come on your not stupid! you're a big perv...but your not stupid!

 

And in what time frame, the magical five years? seven years? or was it three and we let him carry on with hope in our hearts?

 

His job is the same as all those who have preceded him and that is to build a side that consistently challenges for top honours, and your right the league is 'the one'

 

He has the hardest job of any Liverpool manager since Shankly, and it is a different ball game now, I think he has done enough this year to warrant a couple more years at least, if next year we are in Arsenals position I might change my opinion, but as it stands now, no chance.

 

At least from my retarded point of view!

 

Rafa was brought in because he had won two league titles with Valencia on limited resources compared to Barca and Real. When he joined Valencia they were in very much the same position that we were in when he joined us. Replace real and Barca with Man U and Chelsea and you get the picture. It was a no brainer.

It was extremely widely publicised at the time that this was the precise reason he was here.

Rick Parry said it.

David Moores said it.

Rafa himself said it.

And all the fans said it.

 

Where the hell were you????

 

How could you even possibly suggest that his remit is NOT to win the league, and merely to "challenge for honours"?

Pile of horse shit that mate. Rafa's remit is exactly the same remit as has been for any LIverpool Manager before him. To win the league. That's exactly why we've got through so many in the last 20 years!!

The day that isn't the remit is the day we're well and truly finished as a football club.

[WaltonRed]

Rafa was brought in because he had won two league titles with Valencia on limited resources compared to Barca and Real. When he joined Valencia they were in very much the same position that we were in when he joined us. Replace real and Barca with Man U and Chelsea and you get the picture. It was a no brainer.

It was extremely widely publicised at the time that this was the precise reason he was here.

Rick Parry said it.

David Moores said it.

Rafa himself said it.

And all the fans said it.

 

Where the hell were you????

 

How could you even possibly suggest that his remit is NOT to win the league, and merely to "challenge for honours"?

Pile of horse shit that mate. Rafa's remit is exactly the same remit as has been for any LIverpool Manager before him. To win the league. That's exactly why we've got through so many in the last 20 years!!

The day that isn't the remit is the day we're well and truly finished as a football club.

 

Superb Mr.Ross, superb.

 

Its exactly how all those who've questioned Rafa feel. Its what we exsist for.

[INTORRESTING]

of course rafa's job is to win the league but its not that easy when your direct competition includes one of the best managers ever, one of the richest men in the world and one of the most innovative managers of our times who has been here 13 years.

 

Where does this magical 5 years come from anyway?

Did the other teams stand still when rafa arrived and say please overtake us?

[philyhamann]

of course rafa's job is to win the league but its not that easy when your direct competition includes one of the best managers ever, one of the richest men in the world and one of the most innovative managers of our times who has been here 13 years.

 

Where does this magical 5 years come from anyway?

Did the other teams stand still when rafa arrived and say please overtake us?

 

5 years is the length of his contract, I think.

[rebel23]

I have not read the whole thread yet, so bare with me if the points have already been raised.

 

But dont you just love it, we have had two superb reults against the mancs and Real and now every problem we have seems to cease to exist.

 

Thats really great stuff, hopefully reality will not hit you too hard in the face next time we struggle to break down a mid table team or someone fighting in an relegation battle.

 

Both the mancs and Madrid have used a system and set up which have played it right into our hands, these games have never been the problem, not even when we used to lose 1-0 from a scrappy goal against the mancs, we have been the better team during these matches the last couple of seasons but this time around we took our chances.

 

I`ll ask just one question for those who now think everything is rosy.

 

How did most of our goals come against both the mancs and Real, could you notice a pattern we will not see much of against the Blackburns, Boltons and Fulhams of this world?

 

that's funny because I remember last season Sky used to bang on about Rafa's record against the top 4 teams and how crap it was, showing tables from his previous years and their results

 

they don't talk about it now

[INTORRESTING]

the thing is we had chances against the park the bus teams but our players fucked it up. We need more clinical players and they cost money.

 

We create untold chances we just happen to waste them.

[The 5th Benitel]

What could rafa have done in the 5 years to make people happy about him?

 

He has won 1 cl and 1 fa cup

what do people think he should have won? 2 cl's and 2 titles maybe?

I am intrigued.

 

I dont think that helps you make your point particularily well. He did amazingly well to win the eropean cup but do you think it's OK for Liverpool to only win the FA cup in the 4 following years and be out of the league by January in every year apart from this one?

 

I think people want us to look like we can at least compete in the league and the 2nd half of the season was his chance to prove he could do it. As it turned out we were out of it in the second week in Feb.

 

Like someone else has said, I'll wait until i see how we do against the likes of Blackburn, Hull and Newcastle before i decide if we've turned a corner.

 

And i'll still never understand why we can go at Real Madrid from the first whistle but not West Ham.

[Tom R]

of course rafa's job is to win the league but its not that easy when your direct competition includes one of the best managers ever, one of the richest men in the world and one of the most innovative managers of our times who has been here 13 years.

 

Where does this magical 5 years come from anyway?

Did the other teams stand still when rafa arrived and say please overtake us?

 

Er, cos that's how long his contract is, maybe?

 

As for the rest, he knew the brief when he took it. He's failed.

 

I've made this analogy already, but in my line of work there are peopl who do my job who have far more resources than I do and it makes their life a lot easire. I can't use that as an excuse to my own boss though if I fail at my own job.

That's just tough shit.

 

Rafa knew exactly what he signed up to. £100m per summer budgets was never a part of it.

 

He was given five years to win the league on the resources we have. He hasn't. Harsh, but that's the way he is.

[philyhamann]

the thing is we had chances against the park the bus teams but our players fucked it up. We need more clinical players and they cost money.

 

We create untold chances we just happen to waste them.

 

That isn't true at all, we were wasteful time to time but we aren't exactly launching a blitzkrieg on their goal. A lot of the time, it was 20m man Keane doing the missing too. A lot of the time we were overly cautious, and looking to not concede a dangerous goal on the counter. I do not think it is a coincidence that we play our best when we're a goal down, which is when we actually look like scoring and I think we're the number one team that has come back after going a goal down in the Premiership this season.

[The 5th Benitel]

the thing is we had chances against the park the bus teams but our players fucked it up. We need more clinical players and they cost money.

 

We create untold chances we just happen to waste them.

 

No we dont though. We create maybe 2 or 3 decent ones a game and we haven't got the personnel to stcik them away cos he's signed one good attacker in 5 years.

[Whelan]

Rafa was brought in because he had won two league titles with Valencia on limited resources compared to Barca and Real. When he joined Valencia they were in very much the same position that we were in when he joined us. Replace real and Barca with Man U and Chelsea and you get the picture. It was a no brainer.

It was extremely widely publicised at the time that this was the precise reason he was here.

Rick Parry said it.

David Moores said it.

Rafa himself said it.

And all the fans said it.

 

Where the hell were you????

 

How could you even possibly suggest that his remit is NOT to win the league, and merely to "challenge for honours"?

Pile of horse shit that mate. Rafa's remit is exactly the same remit as has been for any LIverpool Manager before him. To win the league. That's exactly why we've got through so many in the last 20 years!!

The day that isn't the remit is the day we're well and truly finished as a football club.

 

That is the ultimate aim, of at the moment Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United. But that comes from challenging, you are right ultimately Rafa's ability to win the league is what he will have to deliver on, I AM NOT ARGUING WITH THAT, but in what time frame?

 

You said he hasn't won the league I think he will win the league?

 

Nowhere in your post did you say he was brought into win the league within five years. That was what I was questioning, so long as we are progressing, so long as we are challenging for trophies it makes no sense to me to get rid!

 

And he took over a team that had just reached two successive Champions league finals, we were struggling to finish 4th, think you are being unfair comparing the two.

[stringvest]

Your arrogance knows no bounds. You sit there pompously telling us all how it's done and why Rafa doesn't get it right. Yours is the only way. Why aren't you a football manager?

 

I was joking, for heaven's sake. It was a response to SpeedyG's snide remark.

 

PS I'm not a football manager because I'm too good looking.

[INTORRESTING]

Are you expected to do better than your boss from day 1 even though if he has been doing the job 17 years longer than you and is the best in the country at said job?

 

I think some are seriously unrealistic. To expect us to miraculously leapfrog united, chelsea and arsenal with what has been going on at our club is laughable.

 

However we may still do it but instead of it being labelled a miracle some will say he should have done it earlier.

 

I think our situation shows you will never please some. Even if we win the title people will want him sacked if we dont win it the year after.

 

I think i am just going to enjoy the ride, ignore the naysayers and enjoy rafa's next 5 years as it seems like he is here to stay

[Yerma'satexan!]

I believe this Liverpool team is in the top 2/3 teams in Europe (I guess with the exception of Barca, the top 3 English make up the top 4). Football has changed, it's not like yesteryear where one team could be far superior to all the others, not with all the money knocking around anyway. The difference between the top teams and winning or losing now is so acute it's unreal; anyone from Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea could still win this leaugue and it's by no means over. And contrary to what some others believe I think the desire to win is at it's highest in the last 20 years, just look at some of the Man Utd-esque comebacks we've made this year. Obviously it's out of our hands but I'd still like to think we could sneak it, and if we don't, we will diefintely be there or thereabouts next season. I see it as only a matter of time before we do win the league, and getting rid of Rafa would be a huge step backwards in my opinion. Unless that is we got Glenn Roeder in.

[Tom R]

That is the ultimate aim, of at the moment Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United. But that comes from challenging, you are right ultimately Rafa's ability to win the league is what he will have to deliver on, I AM NOT ARGUING WITH THAT, but in what time frame?

 

You said he hasn't won the league I think he will win the league?

 

Nowhere in your post did you say he was brought into win the league within five years. That was what I was questioning, so long as we are progressing, so long as we are challenging for trophies it makes no sense to me to get rid!

 

And he took over a team that had just reached two successive Champions league finals, we were struggling to finish 4th, think you are being unfair comparing the two.

 

not unfair at all! We'd won every single trophy going except Big Ears and the League throughout just the previous 4 years before rafa arrived. We were hardly a disgrace.

 

valencia also hadn't won the league in something like 30 years, as it had been dominated by two or three far richer clubs. How on God's green earth is that an unfair comparison????

[Glen C]

Er, cos that's how long his contract is, maybe?

 

As for the rest, he knew the brief when he took it. He's failed.

 

I've made this analogy already, but in my line of work there are peopl who do my job who have far more resources than I do and it makes their life a lot easire. I can't use that as an excuse to my own boss though if I fail at my own job.

That's just tough shit.

 

Rafa knew exactly what he signed up to. £100m per summer budgets was never a part of it.

 

He was given five years to win the league on the resources we have. He hasn't. Harsh, but that's the way he is.

 

No he was given 5 years to challenge. Hence why at the beginning of this season everyone knew that if liverpool failed to challenge that rafa would be sacked. Now because we have shown improvement and are currently challenging they have offered him a new deal.

 

As to some people bitching at rafa for being friendly with Hicks. I'm sorry but hicks is his boss. If your boss started chatting to you, you'd be friendly back. If you started acting like a cunt it wouldn't put you in good light and would just make being at work difficult. How anyone can moan at rafa being friendly with his employer is beyond me.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

I'd sack him and bring Mourinho in

[Yerma'satexan!]

I think a question to ask yourself is; "How would Ferguson feel if Rafa left?" I think he'd be absolutley made up.

[redrosetints]

One swallow does not a summer make. When we win at OT and go on to win the league, that will be something special. But winning at OT and trailing them by 10 points at the end of the season will hurt.

 

Don't get me wrong, Saturday was a great result and one I am still basking in. But, as I said, it just made the fact we couldn't beat Stoke home or away all the more galling.

 

Just my opinion, boss. You may not agree, but it don't make it rubbish.

 

No fair enough mate, its not rubbish, shouldnt have said that.

 

While I agree with your assessment, that those draws are galling, its afternoon or evenings like we had this last week that make me tick, not whether we beat Stoke or Fulham, as even if we do, were expected to, where is the euphoria and fun in that and supporting the team is all about fun and enjoyment.

 

I guess I just find this place far too dark generally, never mind this week. Each to their own.

 

Again, sorry for rubbihsing you, not on.

[Whelan]

not unfair at all! We'd won every single trophy going except Big Ears and the League throughout just the previous 4 years before rafa arrived. We were hardly a disgrace.

 

valencia also hadn't won the league in something like 30 years, as it had been dominated by two or three far richer clubs. How on God's green earth is that an unfair comparison????

 

We finished 5th! and 4th, we were knocked out of the FA up by Palace and Portsmouth, the UEFA by Celtic and Marseille, we didnt have Chelsea's money to contend with! We were fucking abysmal as you well know.

They were a team that had appeared in success champions league finals, won the Spanish cup and supercup, won 4-0 at Barcelona, they were also the same team that played us off the fucking park twice! The gulf was there for everyone to see, and it was huge.

 

Look Tom you are right, he has to win the league, the only thing we are disagreeing over is the time frame!

[Guest ShoePiss]

Those against point to why Rafa was brought here, we all know why he was brought here, we also know he hasn't done it yet.

 

I don't think anyone else can do the job as good as him under the current circumstances though, do you?

 

Also I don't think the situation in Spain is a fair comparison to the prem. Yes the comparisons with Chelsea, Utd and Barca/Madrid but the prem has strength and money in depth whereas la liga did/does not. In the transfer market we are not just competing with Chelsea and Man utd but a whole host of other teams.

[INTORRESTING]

Got his 100th win 50 games before fergie, quite good.

[redrosetints]

Rafa was brought in because he had won two league titles with Valencia on limited resources compared to Barca and Real. When he joined Valencia they were in very much the same position that we were in when he joined us. Replace real and Barca with Man U and Chelsea and you get the picture. It was a no brainer.

It was extremely widely publicised at the time that this was the precise reason he was here.

Rick Parry said it.

David Moores said it.

Rafa himself said it.

And all the fans said it.

 

Where the hell were you????

 

How could you even possibly suggest that his remit is NOT to win the league, and merely to "challenge for honours"?

Pile of horse shit that mate. Rafa's remit is exactly the same remit as has been for any LIverpool Manager before him. To win the league. That's exactly why we've got through so many in the last 20 years!!

The day that isn't the remit is the day we're well and truly finished as a football club.

 

So you still want him sacked ?

[aws]

I believe this Liverpool team is in the top 2/3 teams in Europe (I guess with the exception of Barca' date=' the top 3 English make up the top 4). Football has changed, it's not like yesteryear where one team could be far superior to all the others, not with all the money knocking around anyway. The difference between the top teams and winning or losing now is so acute it's unreal; anyone from Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea could still win this leaugue and it's by no means over. And contrary to what some others believe I think the desire to win is at it's highest in the last 20 years, just look at some of the Man Utd-esque comebacks we've made this year. Obviously it's out of our hands but I'd still like to think we could sneak it, and if we don't, we will diefintely be there or thereabouts next season. I see it as only a matter of time before we do win the league, and getting rid of Rafa would be a huge step backwards in my opinion. Unless that is we got Glenn Roeder in.[/quote']

 

spot on

 

you talk far more sense that that tom ross poster