Quantcast
Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week? - Page 18 - FF - Football Forum - The Liverpool Way Jump to content
1892-LFCWasBorn

Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week?

Recommended Posts

How do you know whether it disrupts the team? Do you think he is right to point out that more divisions are likely to cause disruption on any level. I think it sad you whine about Rafa's contract/comments etc off the feild shit affects the team/makes us look silly then this shit is OK so high ranking SOS members can make names and gain status for themselves. He is right, paying Hick's for the priviledge of protesting is stupid.

 

You yourself are paying £700 at least a year towards this Hicks man. That is it. You cannot control what other people do. Take some responsibility, especially when dishing it out. Exactly the same reasoning led to world war 2.

Easy to give it you see, not so easy to take your own standards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't buy merchandise, and I'm not giving up going the match cause someone else will just take my place so its futile. I think getting SoS to let up on their protests against the Yanks under false pretenses is far worse than buying coke in the ground.

 

Explains a lot does that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't try and cloud the issue by quoting corporate law and shit. That was completely irrelevant.

 

No it's not it's completely relevant. You are claiming he will be given "full control" this is obviously untrue as it is illegal. So when you use the words "full control" you don't mean full control. What does it mean then? What are the clauses in the contract that define it? You don't really know do you? You're reading between the lines and filling in the gaps and scaremongering on the basis of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sometimes I wish someone would just give Rafa a metaphorical slap. He's just so god-damned pig headed at times that he gets stuck in these little ruts, where it's him against the world. The man who could do this, and therefore got the best out of Rafa was Pako. Whatever happened between those two was sad. A good friendship had been wrecked and a guy who was key stabilizing force for Rafa, with big enough balls to stand up for himself, was lost. The fact that Rafa has filled his backroom with sycophants ever since then doesn't inspire me.

 

It's a shame because he really does have everything you need in a manager but he has a pretty big achilles heel - he needs someone to ground him. But is there anyone in world football that Rafa respects enough, to be told he's wrong? I can't see Arrigo Sacchi wanting to be a number 2.

 

Thats a fucking brilliant post and Red Nick agrees with Mr T 100%

 

for me the rot set in once Pako left, I believe it was Pako who questioned his judgement on the Babel signing. For me Rafa is now like Brian Clough but without Peter Taylor.

 

I just cant see Rafa making the right decisions needed. he has had plenty of time to get the right wingers and in reality we've sold better wide player than we currently have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Citing the ownership dispute as a reason to hold fire on Rafa's contract doesn't strike me as being valid - if anything it's a reason to get it signed now.

 

Football people, and by that I mean fans, argue about Rafa's ability to win the league. When was the last time anyone worried we'd become a non-top-four side under Rafa? Now exclude any time Man City's new money was mentioned in that or any time it was attached to (misguided) fears the owners would be selling Torres and Gerrard.

 

Keep Rafa and you (as much as you can in football) guarantee top four football, and a decent run in the CL.

 

That's what the business plan calls for. That's what potential investors want to see. They would love to see us win things, and there's a bit more money the further you get, but what will get them opening their cheque books is proof we can make them money.

 

If things are as tight as is claimed (and they probably aren't quite so tight) then we have to finish top four. Get a new stadium built and then you've got some leeway because (in theory) that will bring in plenty money.

 

It's not unusual for highly-rated coaches to finally find a job they can't do, especially when they come to this country. You don't know, until you try it.

 

Rafa represents "collect" on the fruit machine, a fruit machine that sometimes pays out a hidden bonus. You press "collect" and get a decent amount of money back, hoping to see that bonus light come on and maybe double your winnings.

 

A new coach represents "gamble". You might get the jackpot, but you might lose it all. Only the hidden bonus will save you because it might let you win what you'd have got it you pressed "collect"

 

Stick or twist? Gamble or collect? Fans will have their own views (believe it or not) and so you'll find some who want to gamble, some who don't. But investors, ones with the money to buy into us - they want to "stick" for now.

 

Let Rafa go and you will scare some, if not all, investors off. The ones who don't run away for good will sit watching to see if the gamble works first.

 

I understand your point of view and can agree with where you are comming from. However i think under the scenes are some seriously pissed off LFC players at what has happened this season (obviously there fault as well) and it wouldnt take much for them to turn on the manager and if Rafa stays with the current owners I dont think there is any guarantee we will finish in the top 4 next season, Both Villa and Man City will be competing for CL spots along with Arsenal, thats at least 4 from 6 and there is always one team that comes up and makes a challenge from the previous season like Villa have done this season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And who is going to tell him this if he gets the control he is asking for, and the control you are saying he should get? On the one hand you're saying he shouldn't have to answer to anyone on football decisions and should be allowed to do what he wants within the budget he has, and on the other you say someone needs to tell him no more squad players?

 

Agreed and more to the point Shanks and Paisley never got that type of control and when they did they earnt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No it's not it's completely relevant. You are claiming he will be given "full control" this is obviously untrue as it is illegal. So when you use the words "full control" you don't mean full control. What does it mean then? What are the clauses in the contract that define it? You don't really know do you? You're reading between the lines and filling in the gaps and scaremongering on the basis of it.

 

See, you ignored the rest of the post and chose to be pedantic. What a surprise.

 

You know exactly what full control means. It means Rafa wants to be able to say 'I want this player and that player, and I'd like to sell this player and that player.' And as long as it's within his budget, he expects to be allowed to do that. That's what he wants, it's not even being disputed. How it is defined in the contract, and what wording is used is really not the issue and had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was asking you about, but then you know that.

 

You're nitpicking because you have no comeback on the original point that was made, and how the fuck am I scaremongering? I merely pointed out that you were saying Rafa should be allowed to buy and sell who he chooses, but you contradicted it by saying he should be told no more squad players.

 

I'm done with this, some people may have the patience to run round and round in circles arguing with you, but I don't. You seem to get some kind of kick out being obtuse and arguing for the sake of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand your point of view and can agree with where you are comming from. However i think under the scenes are some seriously pissed off LFC players at what has happened this season (obviously there fault as well) and it wouldnt take much for them to turn on the manager and if Rafa stays with the current owners I dont think there is any guarantee we will finish in the top 4 next season, Both Villa and Man City will be competing for CL spots along with Arsenal, thats at least 4 from 6 and there is always one team that comes up and makes a challenge from the previous season like Villa have done this season

 

Pissed off players - based on what, exactly? So you think, based on this season, it's unlikely we'd be guaranteed to finish in the top four? We're level on points with Chelsea, 6 points ahead of Villa, 9 ahead of Arsenal, and 23 ahead of Man City.

 

Melodramatic, much?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We both know how you would react if Hicks over ruled Rafa this summer on a signing, because he said 'we don't need this player'. You'd say who the fuck is he to tell Rafa who we need and don't need. Or would you say 'I agree with Tom, player x wouldn't improve our first eleven so Hicks is right'?

 

My reaction would depend on the circumstances. Sometimes principles need to be compromised that doesn't mean you shouldn't have principles and it doesn't mean you condemn just because a principle has been broken. It's the real world out there and unfortunately in the real world there are many more exceptions than we would like.

 

You said 'he needs to be told' no more squad players. You then said thats not what you meant, and you meant that it's what you'd like to tell him. Fair enough.

 

However, you've been repeatedly saying that he should be allowed to buy whoever he likes within his budget and shouldn't be over ruled by non football people. So which is it? Allow him to sign whoever he wants within his budget, even if it's players to sit on the bench, or tell him he can't sign squad players?

 

There's a difference between telling someone something and creating an organizational structure to hamstring them. I've never said he should be able to spend his money however he wants because that's clearly not possible or legal. I also realize that there are other than footballing decisions that come into player recruitment like home grown player rules, revenue targets, the desire to have local lads in the lineup, marketing objectives etc and if I were CEO I would sit down with the manager at the beginning of every season and lay out a set of parameters within which his transfer plan needed to fit. Within those parameters all footballing decisions are his. If he wants Barry instead of Alonso fine.

 

You say he would refuse to work that way, I don't believe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We both know how you would react if Hicks over ruled Rafa this summer on a signing, because he said 'we don't need this player'. You'd say who the fuck is he to tell Rafa who we need and don't need. Or would you say 'I agree with Tom, player x wouldn't improve our first eleven so Hicks is right'?

 

You said 'he needs to be told' no more squad players. You then said thats not what you meant, and you meant that it's what you'd like to tell him. Fair enough.

 

However, you've been repeatedly saying that he should be allowed to buy whoever he likes within his budget and shouldn't be over ruled by non football people. So which is it? Allow him to sign whoever he wants within his budget, even if it's players to sit on the bench, or tell him he can't sign squad players?

 

Don't try and cloud the issue by quoting corporate law and shit. That was completely irrelevant.

 

And the 20 £1m players was a hypothetical thing to illustrate the point. Of course it's an extreme example, but not much more extreme than the idea he'd spend his whole budget on one player. It's more likely he'd buy a £10m, a £5m, two £2.5m and a couple of Bosmans.

 

 

If Rafa had his way Xabi would no longer be at this club and personally I think he should have been given everything he wanted so we could see that when he took total control he fucked up and we would now be looking for his replacement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats a fucking brilliant post and Red Nick agrees with Mr T 100%

 

for me the rot set in once Pako left, I believe it was Pako who questioned his judgement on the Babel signing. For me Rafa is now like Brian Clough but without Peter Taylor.

 

I just cant see Rafa making the right decisions needed. he has had plenty of time to get the right wingers and in reality we've sold better wide player than we currently have.

 

 

 

How do you know that? Pure speculation, that's what that is. It's funny how everyone are 'in the know' during these times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How do you know that? Pure speculation, that's what that is. It's funny how everyone are 'in the know' during these times.

 

Cause Tony B said it, or maybe it was Chris B. Elisha Scott too, various people. Who knows, its widely accepted that it was the straw that broke the camels back in their relationship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure exactly what Rafa is asking but is he asking for any more control then what managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Moyes and O'Neill have.

 

A manager should be allowed to sign who he wants but he has to be made responsible for those signings.

 

A fine example would be last summers signings would have Rafa in the shit because they were a disaster and he would now be under pressure to rectify those mistakes in the summer.

 

If a manager is given a budget but not allowed to sign the players he wants within that budget then we may as well go down the route of appointing a Director of Football and replacing Rafa with a Coach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cause Tony B said it, or maybe it was Chris B. Elisha Scott too, various people. Who knows, its widely accepted that it was the straw that broke the camels back in their relationship.

 

Got any links to support the claim?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pissed off players - based on what, exactly? So you think, based on this season, it's unlikely we'd be guaranteed to finish in the top four? We're level on points with Chelsea, 6 points ahead of Villa, 9 ahead of Arsenal, and 23 ahead of Man City.

 

Melodramatic, much?

 

Lets actually see what happens I can give you good reasons whilst Villa, Arsenal and Man City will make big Strides and why we will drop back.

 

I will address this at the end of the season if Rafa does sign a new contract

 

Im just praying he doesnt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know exactly what full control means. It means Rafa wants to be able to say 'I want this player and that player, and I'd like to sell this player and that player.' And as long as it's within his budget, he expects to be allowed to do that. That's what he wants, it's not even being disputed. How it is defined in the contract, and what wording is used is really not the issue and had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was asking you about, but then you know that.

 

You think it means that, I don't. Planning, oversight and governance are realities in multi million $ businesses. IMO he knows there will be constraints on how he spends the money and that's the kind of thing they are discussing now, the details of those constraints. Obviously, the constraint whereby Keane can be bought instead of Barry is one he is looking to have rectified.

 

You're nitpicking because you have no comeback on the original point that was made,

 

I addressed this in my other post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cause Tony B said it, or maybe it was Chris B. Elisha Scott too, various people. Who knows, its widely accepted that it was the straw that broke the camels back in their relationship.

 

That's funny because it's also widely known that the straw that broke the camels back was Rafa getting more involved with training.

 

Which is also funny because it's also widely known that the straw that broke the camel's back was Pako interviewing for jobs at other clubs.

 

Insiders, eh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lets actually see what happens I can give you good reasons whilst Villa, Arsenal and Man City will make big Strides and why we will drop back.

 

I will address this at the end of the season if Rafa does sign a new contract

 

Im just praying he doesnt

 

Ok, well then let's actually see what happens rather than waving our vitual hands in the air, shouting at the moon and saying we're all doomed with rafa in charge then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not sure exactly what Rafa is asking but is he asking for any more control then what managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Moyes and O'Neill have.

 

A manager should be allowed to sign who he wants but he has to be made responsible for those signings.

 

A fine example would be last summers signings would have Rafa in the shit because they were a disaster and he would now be under pressure to rectify those mistakes in the summer.

 

If a manager is given a budget but not allowed to sign the players he wants within that budget then we may as well go down the route of appointing a Director of Football and replacing Rafa with a Coach.

 

And that's the fact of the matter right there. We don't know what he's asking for, but we're willing to deny him it anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's funny because it's also widely known that the straw that broke the camels back was Rafa getting more involved with training.

 

Which is also funny because it's also widely known that the straw that broke the camel's back was Pako interviewing for jobs at other clubs.

 

Insiders, eh.

 

It was Pako being friendly with Mourinho, not interviewing for other jobs as far as I know. Him ignoring Pako's suggestions is what pissed Pako off big time, don't think we've won a trophy since then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cause Tony B said it, or maybe it was Chris B. Elisha Scott too, various people. Who knows, its widely accepted that it was the straw that broke the camels back in their relationship.

 

Babel had nothing to do with their fallout. Absolute bollocks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×