Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week?

[one dude abides]

If you can accept not winning the PL for the next 5 years then obviously if wouldnt be as bad for you as horrendous it is for me.

 

and you can predict what the next five years holds?

 

PS - if you find it a 'horrendous' chore, supporting Liverpool FC, then you'd be best buggering off and supporting Man Utd or Chelsea.

[SpeedyG]

Are you suggesting Rafa wil dismantle his two holding midfielder obsession just because we got Barry?

I need to correct your mis-use of the term "holding midfielder" because neither Barry nor Mascherano nor Lucas nor Gerrard are purely holding midfielders. They are box to box midfielders, some better defensively than others. Some started as defensive midfielders, some started as attacking midfielders. And that was clearly the options Benitez was looking to start the season with. So yes I think Benitez was planning an approach that didn't involve playing with two midfielders solely screening the back 4.

 

The work he has done with Mascherano should be more than ample evidence that the role of the central midfielders is more than just holding.

 

Holding midfielders don't do this:

 

Dossena v Real Madrid

 

or this:

 

Torres v Portsmouth

 

I don't think Rafa has tactics that ensures we get several players in the box, it's 3 at a time maximum.

 

Babel v Manchester United

 

Oh look 5 players in the box; A "holding midfielder" getting to the byline!

[Red Nick]

Sad but predictable

[stringvest]

I'm not absolutely convinced anyone would do massively better, but I am fairly sure that there are a good few managers that would do as well with the same resources. I'm not saying we should replace him anyway - I honestly believe that the situation should be reviewed at the end of the year, and a pragmatic decision should be made for the good of the club. That may well mean that Benitez should stay, and if this year's performance warrants that, I'll be happy to agree with it. I just don't buy the opinion that Benitez is somehow performing miracles at the club. He's not.

[SpeedyG]

I think Barry is a defensive midfielder.

 

 

Well if you think that then we're done.

[JMARKH]

As no one seemed to pick up on this and find the numbers I asked for I will do it myself.

 

2006/07:

In:

Michael Carrick, Tottenham - £18,6M

Owen Hargreaves, B Munich - £17M

Anderson, Porto - unknown

Tomasz Kuszczak, West Brom - unknown

Nani, Sporting Lisbon - unknown

 

Out:

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake, Plymouth - £200000

Quinton Fortune, Bolton - Free

Ruud van Nistelrooy, Real Madrid - £11M

Luke Steele, West Brom - unknown

Paul McShane, West Brom - Free

Liam Miller, Sunderland - Free

David Jones, Derby - £1M

Tim Howard, Everton - £3M

 

Loans

Tomasz Kuszczak, West Brom

Henrik Larsson, Helsingborgs

 

2007/08:

In:

Carlos Tevez, West Ham - Free

Manucho, Petro Atletico - unknown

 

Out:

Kieran Richardson, Sunderland - £5,5M

Giuseppe Rossi, Villarreal - unknown

Daniel Rose, Oxford - unknown

Alan Smith, Newcastle - £6M

Gabriel Heinze, Real Madrid - unknown

Phil Marsh, Blackpool - Free

Adam Eckersley, Port Vale - Free

Ryan Shawcross, Stoke - £1M

Phil Bardsley, Sunderland - £2M

Kieran Lee, Oldham - Free

Gerard Pique, Barcelona - £5M

 

2008/09:

In:

Dimitar Berbatov, Tottenham - £30M

Zoran Tosic, Partizan Belgrade - unknown

Ritchie De Laet, Stoke - unknown

 

Out:

Michael Lea, Scunthorpe - Free

Ritchie Jones, Hartlepool - Free

Chris Eagles, Burnley - unknown

Mikael Silvestre, Arsenal - unknown

Louis Saha, Everton - unknown

 

So since we finished with 82 points and the mancs with 83 points in the 05/06 season we have brought in 25 players while the mancs have brought in 10 players.

 

Out of the players brought in we have either sold or loaned out 7 of the 25 players while the mancs have loaned out or sold 1 of their 10.

 

I reallly dont care about net spend, why on earth should I?

 

What I do care about though is the fact we use a lot of money on dross going with the quantity instead of quality model.

 

Like I said we finished 1 point behind the mancs that season and personlayy I think we had a better sqaud back then than now, the only thing I find interesting to debate is what could have been if we had done like the mancs gone for quality instead of quantity?

 

And your exactly right to think that to code, the squad is not as strong as it could be for the money Rafa has spent and therefore this is why he complains about not being able to compete, if you have less money you shouldn't go chucking it away as often as he does, if he spent it more on quality rather than quantity we would be in a stronger position for a sustained challenge.

[SpeedyG]

And your exactly right to think that to code, the squad is not as strong as it could be for the money Rafa has spent and therefore this is why he complains about not being able to compete, if you have less money you shouldn't go chucking it away as often as he does, if he spent it more on quality rather than quantity we would be in a stronger position for a sustained challenge.

 

I wish that whenever Code posted this stuff (AGAIN) he would include the starting squad and that our only winger was Richie Partridge! Of whom Wiki has this to say

 

Partridge made his Chester debut in a 0–0 draw with Chesterfield on August 11, 2007, with his first goal coming against Crewe Alexandra in the Johnstone's Paint Trophy the following month. In the following weeks he enhanced his reputation as a lively winger with an eye for goal, most notably after scoring two very well taken goals in Chester's 2–1 win at Stockport County on October 20. However, he has managed just two more goals during the season and is struggling to establish a first–team place in the early weeks of the 2008–09 season.

 

That people no matter what anyone says was the reality of the situation in 04/05.

 

As an aside, why are people surprised that a manager who has to replace a whole squad has done more transfer business than one who hasn't? It's astonishing.

[ToxtethTerror]

I wish that whenever Code posted this stuff (AGAIN) he would include the starting squad and that our only winger was Richie Partridge! Of whom Wiki has this to say

 

How many "wingers" do we have now 5 years down the line?

[SpeedyG]

How many "wingers" do we have now 5 years down the line?

 

You are trying to take this somewhere most people are tired of going. At least my point was relevant to the discussion.

[Spy Bee]

I can't believe I didn't notice Rashid before. It's just quintessential Rashid!

[ToxtethTerror]

You are trying to take this somewhere most people are tired of going. At least my point was relevant to the discussion.

 

You are running around attacking people left right and centre with absolute bollocks and stats. You said we didn't have a winger of note in 2004, I think it's entirely relevent to ask how many of these "wingers" you moaned about not having, we have now.

[Thants]

How many "wingers" do we have now 5 years down the line?

 

4ish with another 3 that can do the job.

[coop]

Little point just to throw in but whoever the manager is at the current time whether it be Rafa or Mourinho or even Timmy Mallet people should not under-estimate the job they face trying to dislodge Man United.

 

Regardless of how much it grates Alex Ferguson is a world class manager who has been at the same club for over 20 years building what seems to be almost the perfect set up.

 

We may go on and win the Champions League but over the course of a 38 game league system the strength in depth and quality of Man Uniteds squad is very hard to break down.

 

The only 'quick fix' to catching Man United up is to spend like Chelsea did under Ranieri and then Mourinho but even that catches up with you as we are seeing currently with Chelsea who have an ageing side that once again needs a lot of money spent on them.

 

I personally think Rafa has narrowed the gap and if given the opportunity may well continue to do so but to fight such an empire as Man United's you need to build your own and this takes time and patientence not only from the owners and staff of the footbal club but also its fans.

[SpeedyG]

You are running around attacking people left right and centre with absolute bollocks and stats.

 

Yawn!

You said we didn't have a winger of note in 2004, I think it's entirely relevent to ask how many of these "wingers" you moaned about not having, we have now.

 

I was merely offering a data point as to why we had more transfers than manure. If you actually want to debate the point (which is unlikely). Players who can play on the wing who are IMO better than Richie Partridge, let's see.

 

Gerrard, Kuyt, Babel, Riera, Leto, Amoo, Benayoun, Dossena, Pennant, Weijl, Anderson, Kacaniklic, ...

 

And your point is?

[ali]

I just watched the pre-match press conference and he said the 2 week thing is not true.

 

that's because the British press have completely scavanged a very lengthy interview from AS that appeared yesterday with Enrique Ortego -

 

 

 

as usual the hacks have twisted, chopped his answers to Enrique's questions to suit their own agendas. None of the comments were made to any of the papers that carried the comments this morning or Sky Sports.

[SpeedyG]

that's because the British press have completely scavanged a very lengthy interview from AS that appeared yesterday with Enrique Ortego -

 

 

 

as usual the hacks have twisted, chopped his answers to Enrique's questions to suit their own agendas. None of the comments were made to any of the papers that carried the comments this morning or Sky Sports.

 

Do you have a link to the original? Has ASF translated it yet?

[ToxtethTerror]

Yawn!

 

 

I was merely offering a data point as to why we had more transfers than manure. If you actually want to debate the point (which is unlikely). Players who can play on the wing who are IMO better than Richie Partridge, let's see.

 

Gerrard, Kuyt, Babel, Riera, Leto, Amoo, Benayoun, Dossena, Pennant, Weijl, Anderson, Kacaniklic, ...

 

And your point is?

 

The same point applies back then doesn't it?.. you used Ritchie Partridge as our only winger but what about the ones who could "play on the wing" as you stated above? Do you remember that far back? It is pre 2005 by the way...

[ali]

Do you have a link to the original? Has ASF translated it yet?

 

No I think he might have missed it, I nearly did as well. If you go to AS.com and then football, go to Champions League, then scroll down to De Bleeckere is "satisfied" story where underneath the main paragraphh there's a sub heading of Madrid - This is Anfield - Liverpool click on Liverpool and then scroll down to Thursday 12-03-2009

 

"In Spain, long-term projects are difficult"

 

there's only about half of the interview there now sadly

[SpeedyG]

The same point applies back then doesn't it?.. you used Ritchie Partridge as our only winger but what about the ones who could "play on the wing" as you stated above? Do you remember that far back? It is pre 2005 by the way...

 

;)

 

And before you ask, No I don't go to the game.

[SpeedyG]

No I think he might have missed it, I nearly did as well. If you go to AS.com and then football, go to Champions League, then scroll down to De Bleeckere is "satisfied" story where underneath the main paragraphh there's a sub heading of Madrid - This is Anfield - Liverpool click on Liverpool and then scroll down to Thursday 12-03-2009

 

"In Spain, long-term projects are difficult"

 

there's only about half of the interview there now sadly

 

Thanks mate!

[Drewas]

Little point just to throw in but whoever the manager is at the current time whether it be Rafa or Mourinho or even Timmy Mallet people should not under-estimate the job they face trying to dislodge Man United.

 

Regardless of how much it grates Alex Ferguson is a world class manager who has been at the same club for over 20 years building what seems to be almost the perfect set up.

 

We may go on and win the Champions League but over the course of a 38 game league system the strength in depth and quality of Man Uniteds squad is very hard to break down.

 

The only 'quick fix' to catching Man United up is to spend like Chelsea did under Ranieri and then Mourinho but even that catches up with you as we are seeing currently with Chelsea who have an ageing side that once again needs a lot of money spent on them.

 

I personally think Rafa has narrowed the gap and if given the opportunity may well continue to do so but to fight such an empire as Man United's you need to build your own and this takes time and patientence not only from the owners and staff of the footbal club but also its fans.

 

Whisky nose is coming to the end of his tenure and unforunately its about who will be best equipped to challenge them when hes gone. A new manager means a new 5 year plan and then unless you get someone who knows how to win in the Prem you could till not have achieved it.

[dennis tooth]

You are running around attacking people left right and centre with absolute bollocks and stats. You said we didn't have a winger of note in 2004, I think it's entirely relevent to ask how many of these "wingers" you moaned about not having, we have now.

 

More than we had then?

Idiot.

 

Anyway. You can see by the sheer volume of players sold each summer, which brings up Fergie's transfer net spend nicely hiding the amount he acutally spends, to other top league teams the sheer quality at United running through the reserves and youth teams. It pushes through to the top where the standard is so high it allows Fergie just to pick an 11 and know it is got a good chance of spanking anyone. None of that 11 can take their place for granted.

 

The club has been built from the bottom up not the other way round, the reserves push up into the team not the other way round. That's the way it should be. It takes time, he has had the time to build on that and while he can handpick the best he can sell most of the others at a handsome profit or enough to fund the next batch. It only supports the view that long term planning is always best if you want sustained progress. Look at Chelsea, Real etc

[Red Nick]

Little point just to throw in but whoever the manager is at the current time whether it be Rafa or Mourinho or even Timmy Mallet people should not under-estimate the job they face trying to dislodge Man United.

 

Regardless of how much it grates Alex Ferguson is a world class manager who has been at the same club for over 20 years building what seems to be almost the perfect set up.

 

We may go on and win the Champions League but over the course of a 38 game league system the strength in depth and quality of Man Uniteds squad is very hard to break down.

 

The only 'quick fix' to catching Man United up is to spend like Chelsea did under Ranieri and then Mourinho but even that catches up with you as we are seeing currently with Chelsea who have an ageing side that once again needs a lot of money spent on them.

 

I personally think Rafa has narrowed the gap and if given the opportunity may well continue to do so but to fight such an empire as Man United's you need to build your own and this takes time and patientence not only from the owners and staff of the footbal club but also its fans.

 

I agree that catching Manu will be difficult but a manager playing a style of football to maxamise points off piss poor opposition would help better. However I dont think 11 for 11 were that far behind them but we do need a manager that changes our style of play and is prepared to play players such as Robben, Duff, Cole, Walcott, Nasri and Nani

 

For me two world class wingers and our first 11 would be stronger than Manu's however for our squad to be as strong that will take time.

[Code]

I wish that whenever Code posted this stuff (AGAIN) he would include the starting squad and that our only winger was Richie Partridge! Of whom Wiki has this to say

 

In the 2005/06 season we had Gerrard, Pongolle, Cisse and Garcia who all could play on the right and we had Kewell, Garcia, Cisse, Riise, Zenden and Warnock who could play on the left.

[Red Nick]

In the 2005/06 season we had Gerrard, Pongolle, Cisse and Garcia who all could play on the right and we had Kewell, Garcia, Cisse, Riise, Zenden and Warnock who could play on the left.

 

You'd have to say that our players in the wide positons have gone backwards since then.