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Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week?

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We went into the 2nd half of our first title challenge in years having sold our 2nd best forward. That left us with our best forward who had been having injury problems all year, a forward we converted to right midfield (mainly cos he went nearly a calender year in the league without scoring), a untired 19 year old and a weak wide player who people have tried to convince themselves can play up front just cos he's quick.

 

How isn't that a mistake? They're not extremes. They're facts.

 

My abiding memories of Keane will be of him missing sitters in a most non liverpool way, of blocking Torres' shots, telling the manager to fuck off and not being able to gel with the rest of the team. He clearly wasn't working out. Now if we were manure then we would probably do as many have suggested and kept hold of him. But we are not, the 3-4m difference between what we could get in Jan vs. the new season is not something we can ignore. Just another example of how we are in a different game than manure. The evidence of it is there to see if you are prepared to look.

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well, I think this thread has covered just about everything.

 

can't remember if we've discussed to death whether our nett spend is more or less than manure's, or come to think of it, whether we've discussed the finer points of pancake tossing.

 

round and round we go, where we stop, nobody knows.

 

I just put you from 1 to full green

 

Hamstrung has mighty big cock.

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We've done that, I agree. Generally it been away from home. And while I have been fuming at the time, they aren't the games that have cost us.

 

Its generally agreed that the draws at home have cost us, and in those its been because we haven't had the breaks (Stoke) or the wherewithal (most of the others) to break a defensive team down.

 

We just didn't go for it in those games. The amount of times we only had two men in the box or even just 4 men within 30 yards of their goal was excruciating to watch. In fact, the exact momant i lost faith in Benitez was when he subbed Mascherano against City cos he was pushin forward to try and get us a goal. I should really have given up after Hull when, having gone 2 down, the players went for it and got 2 back and nearly got a third. He gets them in at half time and it's the same boring shite we've seen all season.

 

If you only play with 4 attackers against teams with basically 8 defender the chances are you wont win a lot of those games. He hasn't worked that out yet.

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We've done that, I agree. Generally it been away from home. And while I have been fuming at the time, they aren't the games that have cost us.

 

Its generally agreed that the draws at home have cost us, and in those its been because we haven't had the breaks (Stoke) or the wherewithal (most of the others) to break a defensive team down.

 

 

I would agree we were unlucky against Stoke away, but if you want to win the league you need more than 2 points per game, so against the likes of Stoke away you need to pick up 3 points, especially if you've already dropped at home.

 

As for the home games, I don't remember too many sides coming to settle who we've dropped points against. West Ham didn't, Fulham were the best side for most of the game (played 2 up front iirc), Everton certainly didn't hide and defend in the league game. I can't remember off the top of my head the other draws at home (sure there must have been more, but haven't got time to look now as I'm about to leave work), but I don't think it's been negative tactics of the opposition that have cost us, it's been our own.

 

EDIT ... actually 5th Benitel has just reminded me of 2 more draws, City and Hull. Neither of those were down to a park the bus mentality of the opposition either.

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Voronin was never our 2nd top scorer after half a season and will never score 15 goals a season for anyone in our league. That is definately a fact.

 

Again, you give any other club in our league a choice between those two and you'd only get one answer.

 

I don't want to piss your chips but...

 

We just didn't go for it in those games. The amount of times we only had two men in the box or even just 4 men within 30 yards of their goal was excruciating to watch. In fact, the exact momant i lost faith in Benitez was when he subbed Mascherano against City cos he was pushin forward to try and get us a goal. I should really have given up after Hull when, having gone 2 down, the players went for it and got 2 back and nearly got a third. He gets them in at half time and it's the same boring shite we've seen all season.

 

If you only play with 4 attackers against teams with basically 8 defender the chances are you wont win a lot of those games. He hasn't worked that out yet.

 

True in some games, less so in others.

 

I think you and I have done this before though. I am more inclined to think in most of the home games having an extra Torres/Gerrard here and there might have made the difference. You think we don't attack enough.

 

If you sprinkle a little bit of both on Anfield you probably have the truth.

 

I would agree we were unlucky against Stoke away, but if you want to win the league you need more than 2 points per game, so against the likes of Stoke away you need to pick up 3 points, especially if you've already dropped at home.

 

As for the home games, I don't remember too many sides coming to settle who we've dropped points against. West Ham didn't, Fulham were the best side for most of the game (played 2 up front iirc), Everton certainly didn't hide and defend in the league game. I can't remember off the top of my head the other draws at home (sure there must have been more, but haven't got time to look now as I'm about to leave work), but I don't think it's been negative tactics of the opposition that have cost us, it's been our own.

 

I was on about Stoke at home.

 

In the majority of the drawn home games I have been at its been attack Vs defence for the most part with us playing in front of teams 18 yard box. There's been the odd weird exception (Hull) but for the most part that's how I have seen it.

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My abiding memories of Keane will be of him missing sitters in a most non liverpool way, of blocking Torres' shots, telling the manager to fuck off and not being able to gel with the rest of the team. He clearly wasn't working out. Now if we were manure then we would probably do as many have suggested and kept hold of him. But we are not, the 3-4m difference between what we could get in Jan vs. the new season is not something we can ignore. Just another example of how we are in a different game than manure. The evidence of it is there to see if you are prepared to look.

 

The mancs spewed the likes of Stam and Horseface for doing some of what you said there. I also seem to remember Kuyt taking an air shot last week to add to his collection of fuck ups in front of goal. I wonder if he'll get stuck on the bench for the rest of the season? The fact is Kuyt was in the best goal scoring from since he's been here and Keane was clearly struggling to settle down (as many players do when they go to a new club) and yet they ended up with the same amountof goals.

 

And i cant help wondering if he couldn't have recouped money on Dossena given we actually have a replacement in Insua rather than selling our 2nd best forward with no replacement. Even if that wasn't the case i'm sure most reds would have sacrificed 3-4m to at least be in with a shout of the league now and there would certainly be more chance of that with Keane in the squad rather than relying on N'gog.

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It was a glaring mistake to add to all the others in the league this season.

 

you're certainly entitled to a point of view

 

wrong or not

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Not being funny, but I saw Robbie Keane play on of teh best games I've ever seen from a striker lat week. He scored one and made three and was absolutely fucking brilliant.

 

Why?

 

Cos he's an excellent player, and he always has been. Only now he has a manager who knows how to use him and play to his stregnths, that's why.

 

Wed have got no less for Keane in the summer than we did in January. Anyone who says we would is fucking deluded.

If anything we my even have got more as he wouldn't have been cup tied.

 

It should be a sackable offence to considerably weaken your squad in mid-season. you certinly shouldn't be rewarded with a five year fucking deal, not when we could just as easily finish 5th and trophyless as we could finish 2nd and be European Champions this year.

 

Big fish in a small pond. He is not a clinical striker and never has been. He scores goals but spurs can play freely with no pressure, they don't have the park the bus treatment dished out to them. Big clubs need players that take their chances when it matters. You can talk about keane not being given a chance or being played out of position but he missed so many sitters in those 20 odd games he started and whinged and whined through his whole time here. I am glad we got rid but if we had money i doubt he would have gone as other clubs can get through making mistakes and buy again in the summer. Rafa probably had to get him out to get some sort of kitty this summer.

 

Not bringing in a replacement was a massive mistake imo but Keane really was awful for us.

 

We could also win the double. maybe it is worth waiting til may?

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We just didn't go for it in those games. The amount of times we only had two men in the box or even just 4 men within 30 yards of their goal was excruciating to watch. In fact, the exact momant i lost faith in Benitez was when he subbed Mascherano against City cos he was pushin forward to try and get us a goal. I should really have given up after Hull when, having gone 2 down, the players went for it and got 2 back and nearly got a third. He gets them in at half time and it's the same boring shite we've seen all season.

 

If you only play with 4 attackers against teams with basically 8 defender the chances are you wont win a lot of those games. He hasn't worked that out yet.

 

Do you think if we'd got Barry that there would sometimes be more attackers in the box?

 

Do you think that if Keane had been able to adapt that we might have played SG in the middle and we might have ended up with him and Barry also in the box?

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Voronin was never our 2nd top scorer after half a season and will never score 15 goals a season for anyone in our league. That is definately a fact.

 

Again, you give any other club in our league a choice between those two and you'd only get one answer.

 

true but games played and goals scored are close to identical. Keane wasn't good enough for us. Keane's average for Spurs was around 13 goals per season by the way.

 

I'd love to know what Rafa's options were as far as getting a replacement. I bet he didn't say, we don't need a replacement.

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I don't want to piss your chips but...

 

 

 

True in some games, less so in others.

 

I think you and I have done this before though. I am more inclined to think in most of the home games having an extra Torres/Gerrard here and there might have made the difference. You think we don't attack enough.

 

If you sprinkle a little bit of both on Anfield you probably have the truth.

 

I agree on both and, while he was certainly poor in a lot of his games for us, there is no one else in our squad with more potential to provide that bit extra we get from SG or FT than Keane would. I'm not saying he's their standard but he has shown in the past he is capable of a bit a magic that no other players aside from those two can. I also dont think theirs any doubt we need to commit forward more and take a few risks if we want to beat teams like that. in fact, the only time we've done that was agaisnt Real bizzarely enough and look how that turned out. Granted, we also played very well but i think we could easily play worse a win with that attitude agasint the likes of Hull.

 

And when was Voronin our 2nd top scorer after half a season?

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The mancs spewed the likes of Stam and Horseface for doing some of what you said there. I also seem to remember Kuyt taking an air shot last week to add to his collection of fuck ups in front of goal. I wonder if he'll get stuck on the bench for the rest of the season? The fact is Kuyt was in the best goal scoring from since he's been here and Keane was clearly struggling to settle down (as many players do when they go to a new club) and yet they ended up with the same amountof goals.

 

And i cant help wondering if he couldn't have recouped money on Dossena given we actually have a replacement in Insua rather than selling our 2nd best forward with no replacement. Even if that wasn't the case i'm sure most reds would have sacrificed 3-4m to at least be in with a shout of the league now and there would certainly be more chance of that with Keane in the squad rather than relying on N'gog.

 

As well as moving around the goal posts you are missing the point which is that our transfers are constrained by the fact that in addition to being about player recruitment, they are also about revenue generation. Yes, we are a selling club. You can't ignore that.

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We've done that, I agree. Generally it been away from home. And while I have been fuming at the time, they aren't the games that have cost us.

 

Its generally agreed that the draws at home have cost us, and in those its been because we haven't had the breaks (Stoke) or the wherewithal (most of the others) to break a defensive team down.

 

And we don't have the options on the bench if one of our match-winners is having an off-day or isn't winning their personal battle.

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I just put you from 1 to full green

 

Hamstrung has mighty big cock.

 

Cheers cock ;)

 

Getting a tad boring now all this.

 

Any idea how to put a fruit pastel in your mouth without chewing?

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My worry with Mourinho is it'd be more of the same and without the extra cash he had at Chelsea, we'd be just as we are now. I wouldn't choose to swap him, but if Rafa leaves for whatever reason, I can think of worse managers the yanks could choose - but I don't think it would be a step forward, but I understand those who think it would (he's won the league everywhere he's been if he takes Inter to the league and even though he's had one advantage or another each time, that is still some achievement and his home record is just plain incredible).

 

To be honest though I think it's really difficult for us as fans to pick someone. A manager of someone else we don't quite study in the way we do our own and also we don't have the opportunity to sit down and talk to candidates. If I had the chance I would certainly like to talk to Rijkaard, I would deffo be interested in both Hiddink and Capello (although we've obviously missed the boat on both of those) and I'm sure if I put my mind to it there'd be others too. Even you look Guardiola seems to be doing a fine job at Barca, so perhaps we don't even need someone who has a track record and just someone who has the clubs vision (if that still exists with our current ownership) and a plan to deliver.

 

I can respect where you're coming from here, I suppose I'm cautious by nature though. I'd like to feel that there was someone who I believed to do a better job under the circumstances we are currently under.

 

When I think back to the Souness days it was very clear to me that he had to go and at the time I hoped that Kenny would come back, Kenny was someone who I knew could do a better job.

 

It was very clear to me that Houllier had to go too, at the time I thought there were a number of managers that could do a better job as it seemed like he had lost it after his illness.

 

I just don't have that feeling with a replacement for Benitez, especially under these very testing circumstances. It is different now, we used to have a nice but dim owner who deep down had the interests of the club at heart.

 

We have owners who don't have our best interests at heart at all, only making money from us.

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We will have finished above them 3 times out of the last 4 at the end of this year.

 

More to the point though, they have finished above us 2 out of the 4 years Rafa has been in charge... lets not count our chickens for this season just yet.

 

Arsenal won the League from the 2nd budget position,just as the Manc's will this year.

 

You saying Arsenal had the 2nd highest budget in 1997-1998? Liverpool, Manchester United and Newcastle who spent hundreds of millions at the time had far bigger budgets... are you sure you didn't start supporting us when the Delloitte reports starting getting published?

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Do you think if we'd got Barry that there would sometimes be more attackers in the box?

 

Do you think that if Keane had been able to adapt that we might have played SG in the middle and we might have ended up with him and Barry also in the box?

 

I think Barry is a defensive midfielder. I remember when we played West Ham Gerrard wsa in the middle with Alonso in a 4-4-2 and he was clearly under instructions not to break forward so i cant see why Barry would. Our defensive mids are clearly told to hold their position, break down attacks and start our breaks. Look at Mascherano getting subbed agaisnt City for pushing on and Rafa screaming at him to get back just before he helped set up the winner against Pompey.

 

It's a sad indication of where we are that people think the solution to out attacking problem could be solved by another defensive mid. We've got £36m worth already. We need attackers, it's that simple. If a team is leaking goals you dont buy a left winger.

 

I can see what you're getting at with Keane adapting but i dont think he was given much chance to prove himself. He must only have played with a fully fit Torres 2 or 3 times. I just think if you looked at our squad we were clearly lacking potential match winners but if you had to pick 3 they would have been SG, FT and Keane. He may have been out of form but he could have improved but he sold him and we'll never know. We just knew for definate his replacements weren't up to it and anouther title passes us by.

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Truly disgraceful decision if Rafa is given a contract when he should be replaced at the end of the season.

 

It will be an awful decision

 

With whom?

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true but games played and goals scored are close to identical. Keane wasn't good enough for us. Keane's average for Spurs was around 13 goals per season by the way.

 

I'd love to know what Rafa's options were as far as getting a replacement. I bet he didn't say, we don't need a replacement.

 

He said: "We have Ngog."

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Do you think if we'd got Barry that there would sometimes be more attackers in the box?

 

Do you think that if Keane had been able to adapt that we might have played SG in the middle and we might have ended up with him and Barry also in the box?

 

Are you suggesting Rafa wil dismantle his two holding midfielder obsession just because we got Barry?

 

I don't think Rafa has tactics that ensures we get several players in the box, it's 3 at a time maximum.

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With whom?

 

Basil Brush.

 

Daft we're even discussing getting rid of the old fella.

 

Some people need to remember what we achieved in the 19 years or so before him.

 

He's put us back on the pedestal.

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Do you think if we'd got Barry that there would sometimes be more attackers in the box?

 

Do you think that if Keane had been able to adapt that we might have played SG in the middle and we might have ended up with him and Barry also in the box?

 

No. Having players in the box doesn't gurantee goals.

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