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1892-LFCWasBorn

Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week?

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It wasn't obvious at xmas though, was it? I think you can be fairly certain of the top 4 but that's true in most leagues and probably most sports as well. However, the idea it's nailed on before a ball is kicked just isn't true and cetainly wasn't this year.

 

I've gone to the ground recently expecting to see dull, negative display that will probably end in a draw and that's often what i've got. It's got nothing to do with finance cos often our midfield costs more than their entire squad. The fact is, our tactics and team selections have cost us at least having a shout this season.

 

Our finishing is what's cost us. We've hardly seen torres and his £18m replacement struggled to put the ball in the net from 5 yards out.

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Guest ShoePiss
hahaha, so uise the astats because it suits you, then when you get pulled on it, there's exceptions to the rule, it'd just LFC and Rafa are not allowed to be exceptions. Money plays a part, players play a part, the manager plays a part. Our failings this year come directly from the manager thinking a draw is an great result.

 

Why would he think that? You're basically saying simple mathematics is beyond him.

 

Our failings come from many things this season, the players not performing to their best abilities, some strange team selections by the manager, lack of strength in depth in the squad, failed player purchases, Anfield being a fucking morgue, the owners being absolute cunts, Parry being Parry...

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hahaha, so uise the astats because it suits you, then when you get pulled on it, there's exceptions to the rule, it'd just LFC and Rafa are not allowed to be exceptions. Money plays a part, players play a part, the manager plays a part. Our failings this year come directly from the manager thinking a draw is an great result.

 

 

That post doesnt really do you justice.

 

You know as well as I do that no-one is saying that the correlation is 1.00 & equally no-one is saying that Stoke could win it.

 

So clearly there is a line to be drawn.

 

Now you can draw it differently to me but the fact that no 4th budget team has ever won the PL should give people a bit more food for thought

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Check your facts. I was posting around the time of Rafa's Ferguson rant, when we were several points clear at the top.

 

Statements carry more weight when they are backed up with fact, but don't let that small detail get in the way of your attempt to make a point.

 

Which is rich coming from someone using wrong facts such as Rafa's spending, but dogmatically sticking them anyway. And when pulled on it his best attempt at justifying what he's said is to belittle the person who's facts contradict his.

 

Indeed you couldn't even do that properly as you stated:

"Ah yes, Tomkins. The man ridiculed by all and sundry on here as continually writing inaccurate articles, except when his inaccuracies appear to back up Rafa's case of course."

 

No one has ever ridiculed his articles for being inaccurate, infact the opposite is true, in that his articles are too long and too overladen with facts.

 

Statements carry more weight when they are backed up with fact, but don't let that small detail get in the way of your attempt to make a point.

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If you cannot win it's best to not lose.

 

Unless of course you didn't try to win in the first place.

 

and there lies the story of our league season

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This is ours by the way.

 

06/07:

In:

Craig Bellamy - Blackburn, £6M

Gabriel Paletta - Banfield, £2M

Fabio Aurelio - Valencia, free

Mark Gonzalez - Albacete, £1M

Jermaine Pennant - Birmingham, £6,7M*

Dirk Kuyt - Feyenoord, £9M

Nabil El Zhar - St Etienne, unknown

Alvaro Arbeloa - Deportivo, £2.6M

Javier Mascherano - West Ham, £1.5M

 

Loans:

Danielle Padelli - Sampdoria, 2006/07

Emiliano Insua - Boca Juniors, 2006/07-07/08

 

Out:

Robbie Foy - Scunthorpe, released

Fernando Morientes - Valencia, £3M

Zak Whitbread - Millwall, £200.000

Bruno Cheyrou - Rennes, unknown

Carl Medjani - Lorient, unknown

David Raven - Carlisle, free

Dietmar Hamann - Bolton(Man City), unknown

Antonio Barragan - Deportivo, £675.000

Djimi Traore - Charlton, £2M

Neil Mellor - Preston £500 000

Jan Kromkamp - PSV Eindhoven £2M

Chris Kirkland - Wigan £3.5M

Darren Potter - Wolverhampton £250 000

Stephen Warnock - Blackburn £1.5M

David Mannix - Hamkam, released

Salif Diao - Stoke, released

 

07/08:

In:

Sebastian Leto, Lanus - £1.85M

Andriy Voronin, Bayer Leverkusen - free

Lucas Leiva, Gremio - £6M

Fernando Torres, Atletico Madrid - £20,2M

Ryan Babel, Ajax - £11.5M

Yossi Benayoun, West Ham - £5M

Charles Itandje, Lens - £2M

Emiliano Insua, Boca Juniors, unknown

Martin Skrtel, Zenit St Petersburg - £6.5M

Javier Mascherano, MSI - £18.6M

 

Out:

Danny O'Donnell, Crewe - £100 000

Daniele Padelli, Sampdoria - end of loan

David Roberts, Bangor City - released

Robbie Fowler, Cardiff - released

Jerzy Dudek, Real Madrid - released

Boudewijn Zenden, Marseille - released

F. Sinama-Pongolle, Recreativo - £2.7M

Luis Garcia, Atletico Madrid - £4M

Djibril Cissé, Marseille - £6M

Craig Bellamy, West Ham - £7.5M

Mark Gonzalez, Real Betis - £4M

Gabriel Paletta, Boca Juniors - £2M

Jimmy Ryan, Shrewsbury - released

James Smith, Stockport - released

Mohamed Sissoko, Juventus - £9.6M

Lee Peltier, Yeovil - unknown

Besian Idrizaj, FC Wacker Innsbruck - released

 

 

08/09:

In:

Philipp Degen, Borussia Dortmund - free

Andrea Dossena, Udinese - £6M*

Diego Cavalieri, Palmeiras - £3.5M

David N'Gog, Paris Saint-Germain - £1.5M

Robbie Keane, Tottenham - £19M

Albert Riera, Espanyol - £8M

Out:

John Arne Riise, Roma - £4M

Anthony Le Tallec, Le Mans - unknown

Harry Kewell, Galatasaray - released

Peter Crouch, Portsmouth - £11M

Danny Guthrie, Newcastle - £2.25M

Scott Carson, West Bromwich - £3.75M

Steve Finnan, Espanyol - £2.5M

Robbie Keane, Tottenham - £16M

 

Loans:

Paul Anderson, Nottingham Forest 01.07.08 - 31.05.09

Robbie Threlfall, Hereford 21.07.08 - 01.01.09, Stockport 03.01.09 - 31.01.09

Adam Hammill, Blackpool 19.07.08 - 31.12.08, Barnsley 02.02.09 - mai 09

Miki Roque, FC Cartagena 22.07.08 - 30.06.09

Godwin Antwi, Tranmere 25.07.08 - 31.12.08, Hereford 17.02.09-21.03.09

Jack Hobbs, Leicester 25.07.08 - 31.05.09

David Martin, Leicester 04.08.09 - 31.05.09

Sebastián Leto, Olympiacos 05.08.08 - 30.06.09

Craig Lindfield, Bournemouth 22.08.08 - 31.12.08, Accrington Stanley 26.01.09 - 02.05.09

Andriy Voronin, Hertha Berlin 01.09.08 - 30.06.09

Ryan Flynn, Wrexham 27.11.09 - 26.04.09

Jermaine Pennant, Portsmouth 20.01.09 - 30.06.09

Jordy Brouwer, RKC Waalwijk 22.01.09 - 30.06.09

Krisztian Nemeth, Blackpool 26.01.09 - 28.02.09

Peter Gulacsi, Hereford 02.02.09 - 02.05.09

 

As no one seemed to pick up on this and find the numbers I asked for I will do it myself.

 

2006/07:

In:

Michael Carrick, Tottenham - £18,6M

Owen Hargreaves, B Munich - £17M

Anderson, Porto - unknown

Tomasz Kuszczak, West Brom - unknown

Nani, Sporting Lisbon - unknown

 

Out:

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake, Plymouth - £200000

Quinton Fortune, Bolton - Free

Ruud van Nistelrooy, Real Madrid - £11M

Luke Steele, West Brom - unknown

Paul McShane, West Brom - Free

Liam Miller, Sunderland - Free

David Jones, Derby - £1M

Tim Howard, Everton - £3M

 

Loans

Tomasz Kuszczak, West Brom

Henrik Larsson, Helsingborgs

 

2007/08:

In:

Carlos Tevez, West Ham - Free

Manucho, Petro Atletico - unknown

 

Out:

Kieran Richardson, Sunderland - £5,5M

Giuseppe Rossi, Villarreal - unknown

Daniel Rose, Oxford - unknown

Alan Smith, Newcastle - £6M

Gabriel Heinze, Real Madrid - unknown

Phil Marsh, Blackpool - Free

Adam Eckersley, Port Vale - Free

Ryan Shawcross, Stoke - £1M

Phil Bardsley, Sunderland - £2M

Kieran Lee, Oldham - Free

Gerard Pique, Barcelona - £5M

 

2008/09:

In:

Dimitar Berbatov, Tottenham - £30M

Zoran Tosic, Partizan Belgrade - unknown

Ritchie De Laet, Stoke - unknown

 

Out:

Michael Lea, Scunthorpe - Free

Ritchie Jones, Hartlepool - Free

Chris Eagles, Burnley - unknown

Mikael Silvestre, Arsenal - unknown

Louis Saha, Everton - unknown

 

So since we finished with 82 points and the mancs with 83 points in the 05/06 season we have brought in 25 players while the mancs have brought in 10 players.

 

Out of the players brought in we have either sold or loaned out 7 of the 25 players while the mancs have loaned out or sold 1 of their 10.

 

I reallly dont care about net spend, why on earth should I?

 

What I do care about though is the fact we use a lot of money on dross going with the quantity instead of quality model.

 

Like I said we finished 1 point behind the mancs that season and personlayy I think we had a better sqaud back then than now, the only thing I find interesting to debate is what could have been if we had done like the mancs gone for quality instead of quantity?

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Since you only joined in 07, how do yo uknow what anyones expectation was of Rafa. I can equally say that recently people have suddenly said 'Rafa was got in to win us hte prem on a shoestring' yet Ive never, ever seen that before these last few months. Yes, he did well at Valencia, with a lower budget than Madrid or Barcalona, but I didnt know he was supposed to win it for us on nothing.

 

Nothing? Behave yourself.

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no i expect him to shut the fuck up and stop stoking all this up. in two weeks time the media will be all over him again asking if it's signed (because it won't be) and the cycle will start all over again. If he'd said in November I don't wish to talk about my contract, I want to concentrate on football then much of this would have been played out without the media. Instead he spouts his mouth off before every big league game (as I mentioned before I don't remember him wanting to distract anyone prior to the match against his beloved Madrid) and if the press don't ask him about his contract, he briefs them off the record after the press conference.

 

I don't care what eanyone says, specualtion about the manager undermines him and effects the players. His constant "me, me, me, can we talk about me" is effectively sabbotaging our league season.

 

How did this all start? For me it was with the owners snidey underhand way of doing business. I'm in full agreement that none of this should have been played out in the press and I think if he had a board that conducted itself more befitting of our clubs values we wouldn't have any of this shite.

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Our finishing is what's cost us. We've hardly seen torres and his £18m replacement struggled to put the ball in the net from 5 yards out.

 

He was in the worst form ever seen from him but he was still our 2nd top scorer and he was the only forward aside from Torres to have scored 15+ goals a season in our league.

 

Remind me why it was a good idea to sell him without bringing in a replacement during our first title run in years?

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United spending more money defo had something to with us drawing against the likes of Stoke this season and getting beat by Boro.

 

Oh hang on a minute...

 

 

Exactly , I wish he'd just shut the fuck up about HIS needs and concentrate on winning fuckin football matches .

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Why would he think that? You're basically saying simple mathematics is beyond him.

 

Our failings come from many things this season, the players not performing to their best abilities, some strange team selections by the manager, lack of strength in depth in the squad, failed player purchases, Anfield being a fucking morgue, the owners being absolute cunts, Parry being Parry...

 

I've watched with my own eyes Rafa settling for draws against teams that are relegation candidates. Settling, because he'd sooner get a draw than risk a win, even though simple maths will tell you as it's 3 points for a win, that's fucking good odds and it's worth going for it. If you've not seen that in our play this season, you've not been watching.

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He was in the worst form ever seen from him but he was still our 2nd top scorer and he was the only forward aside from Torres to have scored 15+ goals a season in our league.

 

Remind me why it was a good idea to sell him without bringing in a replacement during our first title run in years?

 

Remind me why you have left out Gerrard in your 15 goals a season argument, (before you say it, he HAS been playing up front and HE was the player who would have been replaced)

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Out of the players brought in we have either sold or loaned out 7 of the 25 players while the mancs have loaned out or sold 1 of their 10.

 

I reallly dont care about net spend, why on earth should I?

 

What I do care about though is the fact we use a lot of money on dross going with the quantity instead of quality model.

 

 

But you forgot the wages!!!!! Don't you see? the more you pay them the better they play, or so we are led to believe. Maybe we should pay Lucas £500,000-a-week and watch him turn into a world beater.

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Guest ShoePiss
I've watched with my own eyes Rafa settling for draws against teams that are relegation candidates. Settling, because he'd sooner get a draw than risk a win, even though simple maths will tell you as it's 3 points for a win, that's fucking good odds and it's worth going for it. If you've not seen that in our play this season, you've not been watching.

 

I've seen players play like they don't really give a fuck at times yes, I've seen us put in 20 mins of pressure only to see them give up if they haven't scored in that time. I've seen them score and then decide the game is won only to draw and I've also seen them go behind and then decide to start playing, often too late...

 

I think the above is down to the Manager and the players though, you seem to want to pin it solely on the Manager...

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That post doesnt really do you justice.

 

You know as well as I do that no-one is saying that the correlation is 1.00 & equally no-one is saying that Stoke could win it.

 

So clearly there is a line to be drawn.

 

Now you can draw it differently to me but the fact that no 4th budget team has ever won the PL should give people a bit more food for thought

 

No team had ever come from 3 down in a european cup final and went on to win it. These things are there to be broken and Rafa was hired for having the exact skills of being able to compete without having as big a budget as the other two. He knew that when he took the job and was happy to take the job on those terms. Yet all of a sudden all we hear is him crying we don't spend enough money. It's fucking bullshit, you and lots of others make us sound like peasants. We're a wealthy club with a fucking massive budget and a massive (if inbalanced) squad. It's not been the lack of money stopping us having a go at the likes of stoke, it's the managers shithouse tactics.

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I think you understood what exactly I was saying so I don't think there is a need for me to answer that question.

 

 

Yeah I do. The media are cunts, you know that and I know that. They will talk about Rafa's contract regardless of whether or not he says anything. What is telling is that this contract offer was only discovered due to Rafa letting us know.

 

Previously it was leaked he would sign within the week, prior to him receiving it. This made sure it was in the press and a hot topic. Guess who has to face the press 2-3 times a week a answer these questions while the snakes sit in the back ground.

 

Rafa has told us the score and the media the score. 2 weeks. Simple, wait and see, now lets talk about the football.

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He was in the worst form ever seen from him but he was still our 2nd top scorer and he was the only forward aside from Torres to have scored 15+ goals a season in our league.

 

Remind me why it was a good idea to sell him without bringing in a replacement during our first title run in years?

 

I've already said that decision was a colossal risk.

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well, I think this thread has covered just about everything.

 

can't remember if we've discussed to death whether our nett spend is more or less than manure's, or come to think of it, whether we've discussed the finer points of pancake tossing.

 

round and round we go, where we stop, nobody knows.

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How did this all start? For me it was with the owners snidey underhand way of doing business. I'm in full agreement that none of this should have been played out in the press and I think if he had a board that conducted itself more befitting of our clubs values we wouldn't have any of this shite.

 

The owners are a pair of cunts, I've never said otherwise, but that does not get Rafa off the hook with all this - he is playing his part it making this whole circus keep going round. If he has any balls, he should just say to the owners, "this is what I want, sort it or I'm off.". All this media stuff - snide, shithouse, real madrid politics.

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No team had ever come from 3 down in a european cup final and went on to win it. These things are there to be broken and Rafa was hired for having the exact skills of being able to compete without having as big a budget as the other two. He knew that when he took the job and was happy to take the job on those terms. Yet all of a sudden all we hear is him crying we don't spend enough money. It's fucking bullshit, you and lots of others make us sound like peasants. We're a wealthy club with a fucking massive budget and a massive (if inbalanced) squad. It's not been the lack of money stopping us having a go at the likes of stoke, it's the managers shithouse tactics.

 

STOP TALKING SENSE.

 

ITS THE WAGES AND PARRY!!

 

EDIT: Can't rep you unfortunately. Have to spread around first.

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The PL is a squad game. Xabi had been involved in the Euros & couldn't play every game

We had to rest him

Now when is debateable but whenever it happened we were bringing in a £6m player whilst the Manc's 4th CM cost £17m

 

We can match them on team not on squad & the 1st team cant play all 38 games anymore.

 

Robbie Keane was manifestly out-of-depth at a CL club which was why at 28 none had ever signed him.

Now Rafa is totally at fault for that & he should shup up pretending he wasnt (although yet again even when is bad he is still better than Jose who spunked £30m on Shevchenko & then blamed someone else)

Now it wasnt his fault that he wasnt good enough but it was his fault trying Hollywood gaols away at Atletico & being petulant & disruptive.

We are better off without him.

 

Finally we are losing the PL to the Mancs not because they are significantly outscoring us but becuase their defense is much better.

That is probably not unconnected with Rio costing more than our 1st choice back 5 put togther but it is cartainly not becuase we are too defensive: if anything, it would be the opposite.

 

The CL is more glamourous than the League, has far more top teams & is the whole of Europe not just a small part but some on here want the PL because it is over a longer period which reduces the chances of luck.

 

But then accept that principle when analysing finance vs position.

Hull were in the top 4 after 10 games. Anyone who thinks they could have kept that up for 38 games needs to meet me next week as I have some magic beans to sell.

 

 

Again, this is just dressing up mistakes.

 

Alonso cant play every game but he SHOULD be playing in games were he's had a weeks rest and Gerrard is out injured. That was glaringly obvious to everyone and the result showed that everyone was right to think that. You can also point to playing N'gog or Lucas ahead of Keane (who barely played a full game all season) when we were deperate to score. If you think either of them are more likely to help us score than him then i'll wholesale you a job lot of those magic beans you're knocking out. Attempted back heels or not he is still clearly a better option to most of the players preferred ahead of him and would have been more likely to have a meaningful contibution to our title run in. Plus, Gary McAllister was playing for Coventry and hadn't played at the top level when we bought him and he was boss and was 7 years older than Keane (who played for Inter).

 

As for being better defensively. Haven't we had the most clean sheets for the last few years? Now it's cos they've got a £30m defender they're winning the league even though he's been there all the other years when we've been better in that department and that's forgetting that he's also been out for half of the season.

 

And yes Hull had a good run but we spend more on shit left back than they do on their entire attack. You cant compare us to them. We have got a disadvantage but we are close enough to compete and this year was unusual cos we managed to get to Feb before being out of it. We're not that far behind that we should constantly be out of it at the halfway point considering at that point we'll have played 2 richer teams, one abou the same and the rest who would kill to have the resources he has at his disposal.

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