Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week?

[Catch22]

Does anyone truthfully know what the Yanks' priority is in terms of competitions?

 

Until the marginal sponsorship & crucially marginal TV revenues change, it will always be the CL, as at every club.

 

As a fan you're entitled to most want any competition you want but they are not going to lose £40m to get an extra £5m which is the rough maths of a Rafa/Valencia/win League,no CL season.

[Barrington Womble]

I know some might dispute this but of all the lads I go the away games with, none of them have even suggested Rafa should go. They have their criticisms, Lucas, Kuyt, Babel, we're to negative etc. But I certainly don't get the feeling at the away matches that too many are calling for him to be replaced. That is also the impression I get from the pubs before the home games.

The problem is, like most things in life the loudest tend to be the ones complaining (for want of a better word) If you are happy with Rafa you just carry on as normal, If not then you want to voice your opposition so in effect you become more noticable.

Also, I have met fans who want Rafa out, who moan and complain who are 40+, scousers who still live in Liverpool, so I don't think you can use the old complaint of 'day trippers and out of towners', just in case anybody will suggest that.

But I agree to a certain degree with Real Red, some of those who want him replaced tend to be out in 'force' when we have lost and it would seem some dissapear when we win.

 

of all the lads i go the match with, i think just 1 thinks Rafa is doing a good job. Most like me think the only benefit in keeping him is we've no idea what fucking idiot will be brought in by the pair of gimps who own us.

Take this Mourinho thread that's been going - I voted I wouldn't swap Benitez for Mourinho, however, if benitez is gone and Twit and Twat have a world full of nobheads they could pick, I think I would be quite relieved if we got Mourinho. Personally I think Rafa's biggest asset right now are the 2 clowns who own us and most lads I know feel the same.

[Barrington Womble]

You clearly haven't got game intelligence son.

 

but we have our little zizou for that.

[ToxtethTerror]

sometimes you have to think hard before wishing for something. We are 3rd, and great in the CL - the next manager would have be pretty special to win us the league and keep as top of the European Rankings as Number 1 - that's what we are asking of Rafa.. its not easy.

 

My personal gripe is transfer policy and the style of play.. I want that to change.

[sir roger]

Totally disagree with everything you say there Catch22 - lets leave it at that. You live in a world where football started in 1992.

 

I don't think he is saying we as fans should not want the league most , he is just pointing out the fact that ( for various reasons ) the owners / board / non-Scouse players will always prefer to win the CL.

 

The manager is a funny one. He will be torn 2 ways in that the owners will be looking mainly at his CL revenue-earning while his tenure in the job probably hangs on supporter-opinion which edges towards the league position.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

This spending bollocks excuse with the Mancs is becoming an embarrasment to be honest.

 

Just heard Reina on SSN saying the same thing, coming after Carra the other day.

 

Anyone think Rafa has been briefing the players?

[Warwick Hunt]

Look, how long has Ferguson been in the job (remember how long he got before the trophies started rolling in).

 

Continuity is the key, and control, which I’m sure Ferguson has got at Man U, he’s the godfather and what he says goes.

 

 

Liverpool’s success came from a prolonged period of a steady system of continuity, the same people in and around the place, ditto the training methods. All went tits up when someone came in and ripped up the rulebook and did things his own way and we haven’t come back from it.

 

 

Benitez needs to be given another 5 years minimum, simple as. And yes, he’s certainly proved he deserves more control and respect. He’s the one getting all the shit and having to give the answers, and its not fair when the problems are beyond your control.

 

He’s only after what Fergie wants, probably what Martin O’ Neill has got too.

 

 

Anyone who doubts his managerial credentials, or his integrity, or his passion for Liverpool FC is woefully misguided in my opinion.

 

This week we thrashed the mighty Real Madrid 4-0. Our reputation across the World is restored. No one wants Liverpool in Champions League.

 

And until its mathematically no longer possible, we’re still in the title race. Footballs a funny old game. And even so, 2nd place is achievable and will, no matter how you want to view it, is a sign of progress.

 

And anyone who disputes this should really sit down and think whether not winning the title against a team who are currently the champions of Europe and the world with the longest serving manager in football and the biggest club stadium in the country is such a woefully bad thing.

 

That Man U legacy won’t last forever, and we need to be there and ready when it starts tumbling down.

[The 5th Benitel]

Yes, the thread I posted above gives all the figures season by season. Rafa has outspent Ferguson by about £5m since he took the job.

 

But of course, Rafa doesn't decide who we sign does he? That's his latest excuse.

 

 

I'm dubious if Benitez is the man for the job but the net spend thing is completely misleading. When he arrived here Taggert had pretty much the squad he wanted already and so could just add a couple of big money signings each season. Plus, he also had the luxury of selling players he alread had for big money.

 

Benitez had about 5 or 6 players he thought were good enough and the rest of them were worth next to nothing. The best example i can think of is starting a game of Monopoly and you've already got half the houses on the board. You wouldn't say your opponent should still be able to win just cos you both started with the same amount of money.

 

That being said, there's still no excuse for having only signed one quality attacker in 5 years. Also, we're not out of the title race cos of the mancs or Chelsea. It's because of Fulham, Stoke, Hull, West Ham etc who have a fraction of our budget to spend.

[hamstrung]

 

"Competing with Manchester United and Chelsea is very difficult," he said. "I am not a cry-baby but they have enough money to sign five £20m players and, if one or two of them doesn't succeed, they have three more. I can sign two of them and, if one doesn't succeed or I make a mistake with one, then you really notice it."

 

 

I agree with that.

 

Our margin for error is much smaller than theirs.

[stringvest]

Benitez will sign asap now. He's being a good boy again.

[The 5th Benitel]

I agree with that.

 

The nub of it is, our margin for error is much smaller than theirs.

 

However, if you go into the 2nd half of your first title challenge in years having spent more on the defensive midfielders than you have on forwards then he really has only got himself to blame.

[Original202]

What's so great about being top of the UEFA rankings? It means nothing.

 

As long as we're in the top 8 seeds then we'll be in the first pot, but there's no advantage to being the number 1 team - you don't win a trophy...

 

You could get to the semis every year and be top but never win the competition. Whereas winning it every other year but getting knocked out in the second round might not even guarantee you a place in the top 8.

 

The top ranked sides as at the end of 2007/2008 were

 

1. Chelsea

2. Milan

3. Liverpool

4. Barcelona

5. Man Utd

 

So Chelsea finished top despite never having even won the competition.

 

UEFA Team Ranking 2009

[hamstrung]

However, if you go into the 2nd half of your first title challenge in years having spent more on the defensive midfielders than you have on forwards then he really has only got himself to blame.

 

Comes back to the point he was making really. He fucked up with his £20M attacking signing. Whereas the other two would just go and get another (or already have one in reserve), we don't and/or can't.

 

I can sign two of them and, if one doesn't succeed or I make a mistake with one, then you really notice it."

[sir roger]

Reina - 6

 

Arbeloa - 2,6 Skrtel - 6,5 Aurelio - free

 

 

 

Kuyt - 9 Alonso - 10,7 Mascherano - 18,5 Babel - 11,5

 

Torres - 20,2

 

 

Bench:

 

Hyppia - 3 Dossena - 6

Cavaleri - 3,5 Lukas - 6 N'gog - 1,5

 

Liverpool starting 11: £ 85m

 

Liverpool squad: 105m

 

 

Interesting stats , in as much as I would anticipate the sale of the bought players in the first team would bring in @ £150m which suggests that the manager is not as useless as some might suggest in the transfer market.

 

I do agree with posters on here however & think Rafa ( if still here ) has to stop the revolving door policy on transfers in the close season and home in on a maximum of 3 excellent players , using sales from the bloated under-squad to make this financially viable.

[Catch22]

What's so great about being top of the UEFA rankings? It means nothing.

 

As long as we're in the top 8 seeds then we'll be in the first pot, but there's no advantage to being the number 1 team - you don't win a trophy...

 

You could get to the semis every year and be top but never win the competition. Whereas winning it every other year but getting knocked out in the second round might not even guarantee you a place in the top 8.

 

The top ranked sides as at the end of 2007/2008 were

 

1. Chelsea

2. Milan

3. Liverpool

4. Barcelona

5. Man Utd

 

So Chelsea finished top despite never having even won the competition.

 

UEFA Team Ranking 2009

 

 

It addresses the comment that a CL run is "only" 15 games as opposed to 38 domestically.

Over 5 years that number rises up to around 55-65 & so more than answers the "consistency" point.

 

If we were top of it but never winning then there would be an issue.

 

However, in Rafa's 4 years, 4 teams have won 1 CL, of which we are 1

To seperate them go to the co-efficicents & we are top

(We are actually top of all teams over the 4 years as well)

 

The award is given every year by Uefa so is a very prestigous one.

 

It is for the previous 5 years so at the end of this season Rafa will have been in charge for all the period measured.

We are leading entering the final lap but could be passed by the Mancs,Barca or the Chavs.....

[Best Believe It]

Time for the Net Cunting Spend tag again?

[Whelan]

I think Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves and Tevez are good examples of where the lack of 'big' money signings is strongest, I would argue Tevez (a perenial substitute) is the only success. Jun See Park and Fletcher have replaced the others so Rafa is right I think in that case.

 

Nobody is disputing whether or not Rafa has spent big money, but when the two clubs above you are spending/Have spent more then I think a little more time and patience is not really out of the question.

 

If he was to go and waste 20 million on five squad players I would not be able to defend him, but 20 million on Barry, Glen johnson and Joaquin (or that pole) would be the right intentions at least.

[RSM]

How much longer is he going to spout this shite? he's beginning to sound like David Moyes. The press should present him with the evidence that he has spent more than Ferguson since he took the job and let him explain that "fact".

 

Yes, because we all know that Houllier left Rafa with a squad that was comparable to United's in 2004.

[RSM]

I've been meaning to ask you, why is it when we were neck and neck with Chelsea earlier in the season, and when we were top, you were conspicuous by your absence, yet as soon as we dropped off the pace you were back with a vengeance? I'm genuinely curious.

 

I was wondering the exact same thing.

[derykw]

Look, how long has Ferguson been in the job (remember how long he got before the trophies started rolling in).

 

Continuity is the key, and control, which I’m sure Ferguson has got at Man U, he’s the godfather and what he says goes.

 

 

Liverpool’s success came from a prolonged period of a steady system of continuity, the same people in and around the place, ditto the training methods. All went tits up when someone came in and ripped up the rulebook and did things his own way and we haven’t come back from it.

 

 

Benitez needs to be given another 5 years minimum, simple as. And yes, he’s certainly proved he deserves more control and respect. He’s the one getting all the shit and having to give the answers, and its not fair when the problems are beyond your control.

 

He’s only after what Fergie wants, probably what Martin O’ Neill has got too.

 

 

Anyone who doubts his managerial credentials, or his integrity, or his passion for Liverpool FC is woefully misguided in my opinion.

 

This week we thrashed the mighty Real Madrid 4-0. Our reputation across the World is restored. No one wants Liverpool in Champions League.

 

And until its mathematically no longer possible, we’re still in the title race. Footballs a funny old game. And even so, 2nd place is achievable and will, no matter how you want to view it, is a sign of progress.

 

And anyone who disputes this should really sit down and think whether not winning the title against a team who are currently the champions of Europe and the world with the longest serving manager in football and the biggest club stadium in the country is such a woefully bad thing.

 

That Man U legacy won’t last forever, and we need to be there and ready when it starts tumbling down.

 

Good post that mate.

 

I`m in the Rafa out camp but your points have given me pause for thought. I just think that we are Liverpool FC and we should always strive to be No 1, not looking for excuses why we are not.

[RSM]

This spending bollocks excuse with the Mancs is becoming an embarrasment to be honest.

 

Just heard Reina on SSN saying the same thing, coming after Carra the other day.

 

Anyone think Rafa has been briefing the players?

 

It must be rafa briefing them, FFS

 

They are fucking grown men, who aren't stupid and can see the obvious correlation between the Mancs and Chelseas' success and the resources that have been available to them over a sustained period of time. It really isn't rocket science.

[redrosetints]

No, the facts are here:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/74246-transfer-spending-since-2002-a.html

 

and have been printed by several newspapers over the last few weeks. Rafa and his apologists refuse to accept them.

 

Sky say 98m Net, the Club (Paul Tomkins Article) says 108m.

 

So what your saying, Hermes me old mucker, is that Rafa should have been able to overtake Chelsea and United with 20m a season ? Given their starting points, we've done well to be where we are.

 

Its bollocks isnt it really. The reality is United already had Ferdinand prior to 02 when those stats started, he cost 30, they had also spent 30m on Veron and 19m on Van NIstelrooy. Both Veron and Van horse face were sold in the time frame and dont count against the cost going out, but the money generated from their sales and David Beckhams is about 60m, that 60m is invisible on the NET Spend or outgoings.

 

So in 02, United had a title winning squad, had two 30m players in Veron and Ferdinand, had a 20m striker 6 years before we did and could afford to sell them and then buy moer decent players.

 

There really is no comparison, you're the one avoiding the facts.

[redrosetints]

Yes, the thread I posted above gives all the figures season by season. Rafa has outspent Ferguson by about £5m since he took the job.

 

But of course, Rafa doesn't decide who we sign does he? That's his latest excuse.

 

Yes, because prior to Rafa arriving, Fergie already had Ronaldo, Ferdinand and Rooney, who cost 75m. And were able to reinvest from the sales of Veron, Van Nistelroy and Beckham, which is another 60m. Thats 135m that isnt being accounted for in your stats.

 

Fuck me, your an intelligent bloke Hermes, stop ignoring the facts.

[Woo]

5 year contract? Fucking hell! Can anybody please honestly tell me what Rafa has done to merit a 5 year deal? I could see the argument to giving him say an extra year/18 months extension to his current deal, with a bit of a pay rise, but this takes the piss!

[WaltonRed]

sometimes you have to think hard before wishing for something. We are 3rd, and great in the CL - the next manager would have be pretty special to win us the league and keep as top of the European Rankings as Number 1 - that's what we are asking of Rafa.. its not easy.

 

My personal gripe is transfer policy and the style of play.. I want that to change.

 

Not arsed about rankings in case you didnt know United won the European Cup last year, we last won it in 05'.

 

Rankings mean fuck all.

 

Shankly will be spinning in his grave, defeatism paired with excuses, woeful.