Rafa to finally pen 5 year deal next week?

[WaltonRed]

The problem with this transfer fee argument is that there are no publicly available accurate figures of our transfer fees. You have to take into account the costs of Bosman transfers, Ballack being the best example of why they can be nothing like a "free" transfer. You have to consider the costs of renewing an existing player's contract, clearly it's expensive to renew a contract like Gerrard's, but not as expensive as going out and buying a fresh Gerrard.

 

If you want to prove a point, you'll find figures that suit. And the problem is, once it's obvious you're on a mission to prove a point, most of what you say -- backed with figures or not -- sounds like the rantings of one of those protesters who devote their lives to walking outside government buildings with hand-scrawled cardboard signs demanding an end to the sale of ready meals.

 

What does get worrying sometimes is when you work out what the motives are of those who can't see any good in what they think is bad or vice-versa.

 

Tomkins strikers me as someone who cares about the club and wants it to be a success. I've no idea how biased towards Rafa he is because I don't read his stuff enough to see whether he tries to be objective. But from what I do see, his desire is for the club to do well - he thinks Rafa is the person to best achieve that success.

 

Some of those who are opposed to Rafa seem to have a grudge against him that pre-dates even Istanbul in some cases. They disappear if we're doing well. They reappear during the bad patches. If they do post after a win, it's still completely negative. We win despite Rafa, we lose because of him.

 

I think both extremes want to be proved right, desperately. They are delighted every time a result or performance backs up their argument. It's just a shame this means one extreme is, as a result, delighted when we lose.

 

Luckily we've not got many on here who are at those two extremes, but if we are to have extremes then I'd rather have the over-optimistic fan who is just glad when we win.

 

If you are delighted when we lose whoever you are you are not a supporter. End of story.

[Thants]

Let's hope he signs sooner than later.

 

Then Dirk will follow

[kop]

I really hope he signs a new deal soon, but I think 5 years is a bit much? There's so much uncertainty in the club these days so the 5 years could come back and bite us in the arse. Or maybe that's why 5 years is good; it clears one of the uncertainties? I'm not certain, that's for certain.

[WaltonRed]

I still stand by the assertion he'll not see out the contract if he does put pen to paper.

 

As for Real Red's thoughts I just cant get my head round that you think fellow reds would feel like that.

 

The people on here who have voiced concerns are not some new supporters, or kids or whatever they are good honest match going reds and when people like that pipe up its time to listen.

[RedinSweden]

Yes, the thread I posted above gives all the figures season by season. Rafa has outspent Ferguson by about £5m since he took the job.

 

But of course, Rafa doesn't decide who we sign does he? That's his latest excuse.

 

That doesn't take into account the £14m paid for Cisse. Seeing as the deal was done before Rafa came, but counts as "his" signing.

[Catch22]

No, the facts are here:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/74246-transfer-spending-since-2002-a.html

 

and have been printed by several newspapers over the last few weeks. Rafa and his apologists refuse to accept them.

 

 

 

You are way too intelligent to post this nonsense.

 

These figures have been debunked many times.... Cisse/Tevez etc

 

& most importantly do not include wages which are far more important.

(Degen is a very poor signing by Rafa as he costs £2m per year: that he was on a free is irrelevant)

 

We have the 4th biggest budget in football, quite close to, but still behind the Arse & miles ahead of 5th who were Newc & are now probably AV.

 

If you want him gone for proper footballing & not personal reasons then you should be able to come up with a better argument than this.

 

If he signs it will be the best off-field news we have had for years.

He deserves it for his performance & we lock up our most important asset.

Trebles all round!

[ToxtethTerror]

Our most important assets sit in the stands mate... some fans won't understand this but the club certainly does and should.

[Catch22]

Our most important assets sit in the stands mate... some fans won't understand this but the club certainly does and should.

 

Good point.

[Bogman]

Benítez to hold talks next week on Liverpool future :- Guardian

 

Rafael Benítez has reiterated his desire to remain at Liverpool and will meet the club's owners to discuss his future next week, with a final decision to be made within a fortnight. Benítez's position has been the subject of recent speculation linking him with a move to Real Madrid and he has been quick to take advantage of Liverpool's win over the Spanish champions on Tuesday to defend his record.

 

"Next week I am going to study my present and my future with my bosses," said Benítez, who was also quick to dismiss suggestions that he could leave ­Merseyside. "I have to decide on my future in the next two weeks.

 

"People who see me leaving for Madrid are wrong. I have a contract with Liverpool, I owe Liverpool and I am only thinking about Liverpool. I am happy here and there is a project under way. I have been here for five years and [if I was to stay] from now on things would be easier."

For the first time, though, there was the hint that he is considering other alternatives should Liverpool not allow him to lead a stable project on his terms. There was a hint too of irritation at those who have jumped on the Benítez bandwagon now but did not back him before.

 

"I want a medium- or long-term project. I don't want to be working day to day, always hanging on the latest result, without a programme to follow or an idea to develop over a period of time," he said. "What I want is hard to find in Spain. Long-term projects do not exist [in Spain], like they do in England. I am young as coaches go and I can't predict my future. Real Madrid are a great club, a very great club, but I am at another wonderful club – one that really motivates me. I will work where I feel I can develop a project."

 

Benítez defended his record at Anfield on what he insisted were limited resources. He also responded to those who criticised his team's style and admitted that the words of Vicente Boluda, the Real Madrid president who said that the Spaniards would "take the mickey out of Liverpool"‚ gave his team added motivation.

 

"Competing with Manchester United and Chelsea is very difficult," he said. "I am not a cry-baby but they have enough money to sign five £20m players and, if one or two of them doesn't succeed, they have three more. I can sign two of them and, if one doesn't succeed or I make a mistake with one, then you really notice it."

 

"I have been given a tag that I do not deserve and is not true," Benítez added. "I keep saying so but it doesn't do any good. Last season we scored 119 goals – more than anyone else in England. Liverpool don't just hoof the ball, as I keep reading and hearing. We have produced some very good performances to get to two Champions League finals and a semi-final in the last four years. We are the best team in Europe over the last five years.

 

"With our full team against Madrid in the second leg we showed that we are aggressive and ambitious. We went for them. We could have scored more, too. Liverpool are a good team – despite the fact that people have showed us a lack of respect during this tie. I reminded my players of what Boluda said and that reinforced the need to win."

 

The Liverpool manager also paid tribute to his Spanish World Cup striker Fernando Torres, who played through an injury at Anfield and worked hard to score the opening goal.

 

"I didn't want to push him considering we have the game with Manchester United at Old Trafford coming up and we have no choice but to win that to keep our chances of winning the league alive," he said.

 

"However, he insisted and insisted and insisted on playing, he fought against the pain, he took injections, they almost had to plaster his ankle – and the miracle worked with the first goal. That's Torres for you: a real great."

 

 

 

That bit's quite interesting.

[navbasi]

How much longer is he going to spout this shite? he's beginning to sound like David Moyes. The press should present him with the evidence that he has spent more than Ferguson since he took the job and let him explain that "fact".

 

How much longer are you going to spout this shite? You're beginning to sound like David Moyes. :whistle:

[2pak]

Dont really see how anyone can say Rafa's done poor job since he arrived. We are No. 1 for European results despite being only No 7 in the wealth stakes.

 

where is the trophy for being top ranked? its been 4 yrs!

[navbasi]

I think Rafa should be given a 2 year contract extension on the basis that he prioritises the league championship and a remit to have the team playing good football - neither is anything out of the ordinary and both would be demanded if he went to Real Madrid.

 

 

That's the only thing I don't agree with, If he went to Real his remit would be especially in the first year to win the European Cup and not worry too much about the league. Just like in Italy, Mancini was sacked after delivering the league on 3 successive seasons... In Europe, I think the mentality is different to here, it's European success first, league second. As you pointed out with Ancelotti.

[zico]

Based on the teams on display in the CL this week and the players on the bench, these are the numbers I get.

 

Of course the numbers are only as good as their sources (I might have gotten something wrong below, please don't hang me for it), and there are some squad members missing (Riera - 8, Agger - 5,8, Kuszczak - 2,5, Tosic and Ljajic -16 total), as well as Tevez is only listed with the loan fee, not the buy option price.

 

The picture seems pretty clear though, Ferguson has had more money to spend in the highest price bracket, and UTd are about 50-60 million ahead of us.....

 

Imagine what a winger, forward and playmaker we could buy for that amount....

 

Van der Sar - 2

Reina - 6

 

O'Shay - free Ferdinand - 30 Vidic - 7 Evra - 5,5

Arbeloa - 2,6 Carra - free Skrtel - 6,5 Aurelio - free

 

 

Ronaldo - 12,2 Carrick - 18 Scholes - free Giggs - free

Kuyt - 9 Alonso - 10,7 Mascherano - 18,5 Babel - 11,5

 

Rooney - 30 Berbatov - 30

Gerrard - free Torres - 20,2

 

 

Bench:

 

Evans - free Anderson - 16 Fletcher - free Gibons - loan

Hyppia - 3 Kelly - free Spearing - free Dossena - 6

 

Foster - loan Park - 4,5 Tevez - 10 (loan)

Cavaleri - 3,5 Lukas - 6 N'gog - 1,5

 

Utd starting 11: £ 134,7 mill

Liverpool starting 11: £ 85

 

Utd squad: 165,2

Liverpool squad: 105

[Roy Hobbs]

Benítez to hold talks next week on Liverpool future :- Guardian

 

Rafael Benítez has reiterated his desire to remain at Liverpool and will meet the club's owners to discuss his future next week, with a final decision to be made within a fortnight. Benítez's position has been the subject of recent speculation linking him with a move to Real Madrid and he has been quick to take advantage of Liverpool's win over the Spanish champions on Tuesday to defend his record.

 

"Next week I am going to study my present and my future with my bosses," said Benítez, who was also quick to dismiss suggestions that he could leave *Merseyside. "I have to decide on my future in the next two weeks.

 

"People who see me leaving for Madrid are wrong. I have a contract with Liverpool, I owe Liverpool and I am only thinking about Liverpool. I am happy here and there is a project under way. I have been here for five years and [if I was to stay] from now on things would be easier."

For the first time, though, there was the hint that he is considering other alternatives should Liverpool not allow him to lead a stable project on his terms. There was a hint too of irritation at those who have jumped on the Benítez bandwagon now but did not back him before.

 

"I want a medium- or long-term project. I don't want to be working day to day, always hanging on the latest result, without a programme to follow or an idea to develop over a period of time," he said. "What I want is hard to find in Spain. Long-term projects do not exist [in Spain], like they do in England. I am young as coaches go and I can't predict my future. Real Madrid are a great club, a very great club, but I am at another wonderful club – one that really motivates me. I will work where I feel I can develop a project."

 

Benítez defended his record at Anfield on what he insisted were limited resources. He also responded to those who criticised his team's style and admitted that the words of Vicente Boluda, the Real Madrid president who said that the Spaniards would "take the mickey out of Liverpool"‚ gave his team added motivation.

 

"Competing with Manchester United and Chelsea is very difficult," he said. "I am not a cry-baby but they have enough money to sign five £20m players and, if one or two of them doesn't succeed, they have three more. I can sign two of them and, if one doesn't succeed or I make a mistake with one, then you really notice it."

 

"I have been given a tag that I do not deserve and is not true," Benítez added. "I keep saying so but it doesn't do any good. Last season we scored 119 goals – more than anyone else in England. Liverpool don't just hoof the ball, as I keep reading and hearing. We have produced some very good performances to get to two Champions League finals and a semi-final in the last four years. We are the best team in Europe over the last five years.

 

"With our full team against Madrid in the second leg we showed that we are aggressive and ambitious. We went for them. We could have scored more, too. Liverpool are a good team – despite the fact that people have showed us a lack of respect during this tie. I reminded my players of what Boluda said and that reinforced the need to win."

 

The Liverpool manager also paid tribute to his Spanish World Cup striker Fernando Torres, who played through an injury at Anfield and worked hard to score the opening goal.

 

"I didn't want to push him considering we have the game with Manchester United at Old Trafford coming up and we have no choice but to win that to keep our chances of winning the league alive," he said.

 

"However, he insisted and insisted and insisted on playing, he fought against the pain, he took injections, they almost had to plaster his ankle – and the miracle worked with the first goal. That's Torres for you: a real great."

 

 

 

That bit's quite interesting.

 

 

What the inserted bit?

[ToxtethTerror]

That's the only thing I don't agree with, If he went to Real his remit would be especially in the first year to win the European Cup and not worry too much about the league. Just like in Italy, Mancini was sacked after delivering the league on 3 successive seasons... In Europe, I think the mentality is different to here, it's European success first, league second. As you pointed out with Ancelotti.

 

In his four seasons in charge he has steered the club to two European Cups, two domestic league titles, a European Super Cup and a World Club Cup.

 

- Del Bosque - sacked after that? He won 2 European Cups in 4 years.

[Whelan]

I know some might dispute this but of all the lads I go the away games with, none of them have even suggested Rafa should go. They have their criticisms, Lucas, Kuyt, Babel, we're to negative etc. But I certainly don't get the feeling at the away matches that too many are calling for him to be replaced. That is also the impression I get from the pubs before the home games.

The problem is, like most things in life the loudest tend to be the ones complaining (for want of a better word) If you are happy with Rafa you just carry on as normal, If not then you want to voice your opposition so in effect you become more noticable.

Also, I have met fans who want Rafa out, who moan and complain who are 40+, scousers who still live in Liverpool, so I don't think you can use the old complaint of 'day trippers and out of towners', just in case anybody will suggest that.

But I agree to a certain degree with Real Red, some of those who want him replaced tend to be out in 'force' when we have lost and it would seem some dissapear when we win.

[Catch22]

EDIT- posted twice

[Catch22]

Originally Posted by ToxtethTerror

"I think Rafa should be given a 2 year contract extension on the basis that he prioritises the league championship and a remit to have the team playing good football - neither is anything out of the ordinary and both would be demanded if he went to Real Madrid."

 

No one is going to prioritise the League at any major club.

"90% of footballers" (Maschereno) regard Europe as the most important.

If you start prioritising the League, they will fuck off to a club which concentrates on the CL.

Torres leaving Atletico,a club he loved, is a prime example of that.

 

Our club, in particular, has to prioritise the CL due to our budget being so dependant on non-gate revenues.

These are prize money & global sponsorship.

Although the PL now returns £50m to the winner, you still get about £45m for coming 3rd.

The CL is much more concentrated.

 

If we had 1 season of no CL football & winning the domestic League as Rafa twice did at Valencia then we would have a £35m hole in our budget & probably have to sell some of the players responsible.

 

Moreover global sponsors do not care about a parochial,domestic competition anymore than you really give a toss who wins the Bundesliga,MLS or J-League which are the domestic competitions of 3 countries with far bigger markets than England.

Sony plaster CL film montages over big screens thru-out Japan- do you really think they are going to show Andy Gray with clips of Stoke vs Hull?

 

Theoretically a team like Arsenal could just about prioritise the PL for a year now IF their fans accepted that as selling 60k tickets grossing £3m a time is the main key to their budget.

However even that is extremely doubtful as their season tickets contain all CL games which is why they can charge so much for them

Access to potential CL QF & SF is why season tickets are £1500+, not the PL.

 

You will no more get our club to prioritise the League than Nadal will concentrate on the Madrid Open & Fededer the Swiss Open over the 4 majors, which are the true test of greatness.

[ToxtethTerror]

Totally disagree with everything you say there Catch22 - lets leave it at that. You live in a world where football started in 1992.

[Catch22]

Totally disagree with everything you say there Catch22 - lets leave it at that. You live in a world where football started in 1992.

 

 

I am 36. I have watched football for approx 30 years.

The fact that I have seen many different Leagues in Europe be the best over that time & only 1 European Champion remain constant is one of the many reason why the CL is more important.

My friends are of similar age to me & they all rate the CL far above any parochial trophy.

 

However all that is irrelevant. Footballers, sponsors & the people who run the clubs all prefer the CL for the reason i outlined.

They decide the manager's priorities not me nor you.

 

And you can stamp your feet about it as much as you like, but you are no more going to change that than King Canute could stop the tides.

[navbasi]

In his four seasons in charge he has steered the club to two European Cups, two domestic league titles, a European Super Cup and a World Club Cup.

 

- Del Bosque - sacked after that? He won 2 European Cups in 4 years.

 

You might be right in the long term, but in the short term it would defo be the European Cup, IMHO.

[Barrington Womble]

The problem with this transfer fee argument is that there are no publicly available accurate figures of our transfer fees. You have to take into account the costs of Bosman transfers, Ballack being the best example of why they can be nothing like a "free" transfer. You have to consider the costs of renewing an existing player's contract, clearly it's expensive to renew a contract like Gerrard's, but not as expensive as going out and buying a fresh Gerrard.

 

If you want to prove a point, you'll find figures that suit. And the problem is, once it's obvious you're on a mission to prove a point, most of what you say -- backed with figures or not -- sounds like the rantings of one of those protesters who devote their lives to walking outside government buildings with hand-scrawled cardboard signs demanding an end to the sale of ready meals.

 

What does get worrying sometimes is when you work out what the motives are of those who can't see any good in what they think is bad or vice-versa.

 

Tomkins strikers me as someone who cares about the club and wants it to be a success. I've no idea how biased towards Rafa he is because I don't read his stuff enough to see whether he tries to be objective. But from what I do see, his desire is for the club to do well - he thinks Rafa is the person to best achieve that success.

 

Some of those who are opposed to Rafa seem to have a grudge against him that pre-dates even Istanbul in some cases. They disappear if we're doing well. They reappear during the bad patches. If they do post after a win, it's still completely negative. We win despite Rafa, we lose because of him.

 

I think both extremes want to be proved right, desperately. They are delighted every time a result or performance backs up their argument. It's just a shame this means one extreme is, as a result, delighted when we lose.

Luckily we've not got many on here who are at those two extremes, but if we are to have extremes then I'd rather have the over-optimistic fan who is just glad when we win.

 

I can't believe any proper fan who is anti-Benitez wants to be proved right, in fact if he was sacked today imo it still doesn't prove you're right because many of the pro-rafa people claim he needs more time and money, so as he hasn't had it, it proves fuck all. I know I want us to win every game we play no matter who is the manager, my problem is I'm not sure the manager is as keen on winning games as I am.

[fivetimes]

I can't believe any proper fan who is anti-Benitez wants to be proved right, in fact if he was sacked today imo it still doesn't prove you're right because many of the pro-rafa people claim he needs more time and money, so as he hasn't had it, it proves fuck all. I know I want us to win every game we play no matter who is the manager, my problem is I'm not sure the manager is as keen on winning games as I am.

 

You clearly haven't got game intelligence son.

[Whelan]

Totally disagree with everything you say there Catch22 - lets leave it at that. You live in a world where football started in 1992.

 

You should have left your post at that, in all fairness there was no need for the last bit! I don't agree with all the money arguments but it doesn't require comments like that.

[Best Believe It]

Does anyone truthfully know what the Yanks' priority is in terms of competitions?