Questiontime

[Anubis]

Any position he takes is the opposite of what's correct, so I'm happy with that.

 

True.

[Section_31]

That will be when Mr T broke through the blockade in his Helicopter. He was heard shouting 'Get some Nuts' at the Israelis.

 

He said something like "Not only are supplies getting through, but they're getting through in disproportionate numbers. In the financial times the other week, and this is the FINANCIAL TIMES, a stall holder in Gaza was complaining that there's too many Snickers bars doing the rounds and it's driving the price down."

 

I was fucking speechless, it was like some kind of Ali G shit.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Now watching This Week - Linda Papadopolous (the psychologist). WOW! Hot and amazing boobage.

[Fugitive]

He said something like "Not only are supplies getting through, but they're getting through in disproportionate numbers. In the financial times the other week, and this is the FINANCIAL TIMES, a stall holder in Gaza was complaining that there's too many Snickers bars doing the rounds and it's driving the price down."

 

I was fucking speechless, it was like some kind of Ali G shit.

 

Fucking hell, that is some bad bollocks.

[Johnni]

He said something like "Not only are supplies getting through, but they're getting through in disproportionate numbers. In the financial times the other week, and this is the FINANCIAL TIMES, a stall holder in Gaza was complaining that there's too many Snickers bars doing the rounds and it's driving the price down."

 

I was fucking speechless, it was like some kind of Ali G shit.

 

If you're allergic to nuts in Gaza you're fucked.

[The Special One]

I wanted to download today's off thebox before I realized he was listed as one of the guests. I don't think I'd be able to bear seeing his face without smashing my laptop.

[Stu Monty]

He's up there atm with Kay Burley as the biggest cunt in the world.

 

And she definitely would.

[TheBitch]

And she definitely would.

 

Mmmmmm kay burley atm.

[lifetime fan]

I have it series linked, wont be watching this weeks episode.

 

Cunt even spiols my tv.

[She Knows It]

Does Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood have mild learning difficulties, or is she just a general thick, Welsh bint?

[lifetime fan]

Does Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood have mild learning difficulties, or is she just a general thick, Welsh bint?

 

As someone working in the field I can tell you she's from six fingers county.

[Johnni]

Does Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood have mild learning difficulties, or is she just a general thick, Welsh bint?

 

She was talking for what seemed 2 hrs answering 1 question and i felt my senses physically assaulted cos she spoke so slow like a twat.

[Section_31]

Ian Duncan Smith, what a tit.

 

It's quality how the Tories have suddenly decided prison doesn't work because they're sussed it's a good way to save money.

 

"Fire service costs rise by 10m last year"

 

"Erm, we've decided firefighting is counterproductive, let the fires burn - it's good for the environment, something the previous Government neglected"

[punkhunter]

Ian Duncan Smith, what a tit.

 

It's quality how the Tories have suddenly decided prison doesn't work because they're sussed it's a good way to save money.

 

"Fire service costs rise by 10m last year"

 

"Erm, we've decided firefighting is counterproductive, let the fires burn - it's good for the environment, something the previous Government neglected"

 

 

Section, very true. Just goes to show how far removed from reality most of our politicians are.

 

I can can say with reasonable insight that the reason our prisons are so full is because most inmates are serving petty 3-6 month sentences which potentially could/should be significantly higher for their offences. They use these short sentences either to (a) get clean from heroin (which a lot of the time the contrary prevails) (b) They have a better life in prison than on the outside. Hence, we have a revolving door of serial criminals come prisoners.

 

Prison simply is not a deterrent for the more hardened criminals. I'm not saying that rehabilitation has no place for them, but for the most part rehabilitated prisoners are the exception to the rule.

 

The upshot of this is that we have little protection for the public and a hardcore of criminals who stick their fingers up to the justice system and their victims.

[JER]

Ian Duncan Smith, what a tit.

 

It's quality how the Tories have suddenly decided prison doesn't work because they're sussed it's a good way to save money.

 

"Fire service costs rise by 10m last year"

 

"Erm, we've decided firefighting is counterproductive, let the fires burn - it's good for the environment, something the previous Government neglected"

 

Ian Duncan Smith added an extra I into his christian name to make him sound more 'cultured' - a sad, but true, fact.

 

Always nice when the biggest losers in society get a second chance - maybe that's why he empathises with inmates.

[Strontium]

It's quality how the Tories have suddenly decided prison doesn't work because they're sussed it's a good way to save money.

 

 

The government just can't win with you, can it! On an occasion like this where what they're doing is completely right, you criticise them for coming to the correct conclusion in the wrong way.

 

There are unquestionably too many people in prison, however I have my doubts about whether the media will allow this to happen, it's invested far too much time and energy in the insane idea that prison is the best way of fighting crime.

[Section_31]

The government just can't win with you, can it! On an occasion like this where what they're doing is completely right, you criticise them for coming to the correct conclusion in the wrong way.

 

There are unquestionably too many people in prison, however I have my doubts about whether the media will allow this to happen, it's invested far too much time and energy in the insane idea that prison is the best way of fighting crime.

 

Don't you think that's important?

 

Do you really think the Tories believe in this philosophy SD? Conservative MPs and Michael Howard have already hit out at the notion.

 

Plus, do you really expect them to step up to the plate with an alternative to prison? Funded drug treatment schemes etc? Or will they just leave it to some obscure 'big society' notion which involves church groups and charities.

 

I suspect it'll be a half-arsed approach, and with poorer areas suffering mostly from low-level crime and anti-social behaviour, as ever - I expect this to blow back on the poor.

[Strontium]

Don't you think that's important?

 

 

Yes, but I'd rather a government asked the wrong questions and got to the right answer than the wrong answer. Labour were real experts in doing the wrong thing.

 

Our prison population in England & Wales grew by 66% between 1995 and 2009; great news for Labour's pals in Group 4 and the prison officers' unions, but do we really think people are now 66% more dangerous than they were under the last Tory government? I don't.

 

Do you really think the Tories believe in this philosophy SD? Conservative MPs and Michael Howard have already hit out at the notion.

 

 

I think once again you're guilty of looking at "Tories" as some monolithic construct when it's a really broad church. I'm certain that kneejerk rightwingers like Michael Howard believe this to be a bad thing; similarly, pragmatic liberal conservatives like Ken Clarke and civil libertarians like the Attorney General Dominic Grieve would find the idea had merit.

 

Plus, do you really expect them to step up to the plate with an alternative to prison? Funded drug treatment schemes etc? Or will they just leave it to some obscure 'big society' notion which involves church groups and charities.

 

I suspect it'll be a half-arsed approach, and with poorer areas suffering mostly from low-level crime and anti-social behaviour, as ever - I expect this to blow back on the poor.

 

 

I don't know how they'll manage it, though I suspect a combination of much of what you've mentioned above is close to the mark. However given that the Home Office's own figures show that a 25% rise in the prison population only gives you a 1% decrease in the crime rate, I don't believe sending fewer people to prison will result in poorer areas resembling the Cursed Earth.

[Stu Monty]

It's the right policy but I agree with Mark that I just don't trust this coalition to do it properly. There's the definite fear that it it another landmark to take in the ideological war on government doing stuff. It'll probably be put squarely into this big society bollocks where the local community picks up the slack of what the government should do.

 

Next on the list: Every town to develop it's own nuclear deterrent and to form a small militia (to be transported to Afghanistan via Easyjet, funded by a whip-round at the pub).

[Section_31]

I think once again you're guilty of looking at "Tories" as some monolithic construct when it's a really broad church. I'm certain that kneejerk rightwingers like Michael Howard believe this to be a bad thing; similarly, pragmatic liberal conservatives like Ken Clarke and civil libertarians like the Attorney General Dominic Grieve would find the idea had merit.

 

Ken Clarke is bodering on the infamous in the Tory circles for how far he deviates from the accepted party line, he has been for years, from fiscal policy to the European Union.

 

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the Conservative rank and file has been drawn to the party because it represents a particular set of ideals, from its views on the state and tax to - crucially - its views on crime and punishment. The Conservative party is, and always has been, a hang em and flog em party, and IMO this is all to save money.

 

How anyone can not see dangers in that I don't know. It's like a Communist party coming to power and saying 'we don't have enough money to impliment central planning, so we're going to let things stay as they are for now', so what you get is a major society-defining policy being implemented half-arsed by people who really don't believe it's the right thing to do.

 

 

It's the right policy but I agree with Mark that I just don't trust this coalition to do it properly. There's the definite fear that it it another landmark to take in the ideological war on government doing stuff. It'll probably be put squarely into this big society bollocks where the local community picks up the slack of what the government should do.

 

Next on the list: Every town to develop it's own nuclear deterrent and to form a small militia (to be transported to Afghanistan via Easyjet, funded by a whip-round at the pub).

 

As with the point above, I think that's what will happen.

 

Let's say the Lib Dems had come to power with all of their liberal crime thinking and then set about implementing this, I'd fully expect them to get a bucnh of people together with alternative views on punishment, fund studies, fund schemes, and really really hammer it. WIth the Tories, for the reasons stated above, it will be more a case of letting people out of jail while rolling their eyes and biting their knuckles.

[punkhunter]

The government just can't win with you, can it! On an occasion like this where what they're doing is completely right, you criticise them for coming to the correct conclusion in the wrong way.

 

There are unquestionably too many people in prison, however I have my doubts about whether the media will allow this to happen, it's invested far too much time and energy in the insane idea that prison is the best way of fighting crime.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but while these criminals are incarcerated they cannot be committing crime right?:wallbutt:

 

What is 'inane' about this notion?

 

There are too many people in prison. The reason for this is that they are all serving paltry short term sentences which offer no deterrent, or an opportunity to be rehabilitated. These sentences are completely counter productive and aren't addressing crime.

 

Just what do you perceive to be the answer to this if you do not advocate prison as a deterrent? The people most affected by this are people who live in the poorer areas that are subject to high levels of crime. Are you suggesting that people most affected by these louts should create vigilante groups in their areas to deal with a problem that this government is clearly keen to turn its back on?

 

The justice system in this country is already chronically out of touch and paralyzed when it comes to dealing with criminals effectively.

 

Will you be happy when there is a complete break down in law and order and anarchy reigns?

 

Where will this woolly minded way of thinking all end?

[Strontium]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but while these criminals are incarcerated they cannot be committing crime right?

 

 

No, that's not right actually, there are plenty of crimes you can commit in prison.

 

Although we're really bothered about the ones they commit when they get out, having not been rehabilitated.

 

There are too many people in prison. The reason for this is that they are all serving paltry short term sentences which offer no deterrent, or an opportunity to be rehabilitated. These sentences are completely counter productive and aren't addressing crime.

 

 

So you think that locking people up for even longer is the answer? You would, of course, have some evidence that this would have a positive effect?

 

Just what do you perceive to be the answer to this if you do not advocate prison as a deterrent?

 

 

Prison is not a very good deterrent. All the studies show this. It's also not remotely good at rehabilitating people into society. Whatever the answer is, it's not prison.

 

 

Where will this woolly minded way of thinking all end?

 

 

When justice policy in this country is led by experts and not pig-ignorant idiots who get all their knowledge from the tabloids?

[punkhunter]

Strontium Dog,

 

You're clutching at straws. Yes, crimes can be committed in prison, but most reasonable people will understand that I am relating to crime in general which affects people in mainstream society.

 

The evidence which supports my claim that prison is a deterrent lies in New York City's 'three strikes and you're out' policy. Long term incarceration of prolific offenders going back to the 80's was a key contributor in the city's 38% overall drop in crime in the 90's. In the UK we are now enjoying the lowest overall crime figures in decades and there is a strong correlation with this and the increased amount of custodial sentences handed down to criminals in recent years; even if those sentences haven't been long enough. Another hint which might indicate that 'prison works' lies in the fact that while someone is in prison, they cannot be committing robberies, burglaries, etc etc. How much evidence do you need?

 

To put this into Lehman's terms:

 

Scenario 1 - Bill commits a burglary dwelling and serves 10 years imprisonment for it. Bill does not commit a burglary for 10 years. (Unheard of in modern times)

 

Scenario 2 - Bill commits a burglary and is bailed. Whilst on bail, Bill commits another 3-4 burglaries. When Bill goes to court he explains that his offending is inspired by his addiction to heroin and so Bill receives a 12 month custodial sentence. Bill only does half his sentence and is out in 6 months. He's glad to be out because he hates being locked up, but he could do the same stretch again in a heartbeat. Inevitably, Bill relapses into drug misuse and starts burgling the homes of hard working families again until he is caught......And so the ever revolving door opens again. This regardless of the fact that he is prescribed methadone daily and a personal key worker assigned to keep him on the straight and narrow. (Real, everyday occurrences)

 

I am not saying that prisons are good at rehabilitating people. On the contrary. I am merely saying that longer sentences are the ONLY deterrent to committing crime and that longer sentences would offer that deterrent instead of the current situation where prison is more of an occupational hazard than a genuine deterrent.

 

A simple equation for you: Longer sentences = even lower crime = lower prison numbers.

 

Remember, somewhere along the way we have lost sight of the main purpose of having prisons. They were designed to punish criminals. There was never any mention of rehabilitating them....although this seems to be the primary aim of some of our more woolly minded observers. There is also the need for victims of crime to feel that justice has been brought to those who have inflicted pain on them in one way or another. Quite frankly, the punishments dished out to criminals nowadays only adds insult to injury for such people. And let's not forget the misery that these delightful characters create for innocent people, while the likes of you and our feeble penal system turn its head in the opposite direction.

 

I won't resort to making cheap insults like you have. But might I ask what exactly qualifies you to comment on this subject? Because I do actually work within the criminal justice system, and therefore see at first hand, on a daily basis, the shortfalls of the current system. I speak with criminals almost every day, and they say without exception that prison is not a deterrent because (a) the conditions inside are too easy for them, and (b) the sentences serve only to provide some respite from their cycle of drugs/crime which they become embroiled in on the outside.

 

That said, none of them actually like being locked up. Who would? Which brings me to the conclusion that locking them up for longer would at least be a deterrent from committing crime...as well as physically stopping them from committing crime within mainstream society.

 

What exactly do you bring to the table? You have offered absolutely no alternative to longer sentencing and you have not provided any evidence that suggests sentencing criminals to lengthy prison sentences doesn't work.

 

I've got my evidence first hand - not from the tabloids, thank you.

 

All of which makes you look 'pig ignorant' might I add?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Galloway on it tonight, always good for a watch.

 

 

David Dimbleby will be joined by the Cabinet Office Minister Francis Maude, shadow health secretary Andy Burnham, former Respect MP George Galloway, Labour activist Sally Bercow, and the broadcaster Nick Ferrari.

 

On in a minute.

[Section_31]

Sally Bercow - yes please!