Something Fletcher said recently

[TSmith]

I deffinately think our support being so edgy and demanding isn't helping the team.

[Stu Monty]

Maybe it is because they know Ferguson is a much better manager than Benitez and will be prepared to take a gamble to win the game.

 

Can you take your pointless niggly shite to one of the already bloated and shitty threads because I can't be arsed with it here.

 

Ta.

[taliesin08]

So you're saying the home support is worse than the away? Because that's the way the results have gone.

 

The away support is well better than the home support.

[Vincent Vega]

It's a two-way thing is the support of the crowd though Monty. It relies on the players giving the impression they want to win a game and far too often we are happy to pass the ball sideways and backwards and keep "control" of the game. I think it's down to the way Rafa wants us to play and his preference to avoid defeat over pushing for the win. Look at the Hull game, great support from the fans when we were chasing the game at 2 down because we were clearly going for it, but this died off on the second half as we accepted the point. The Mancs will throw everything at the other team if they are drawing and this is part of the reason why their support are more patient.

 

The crowd will play their part if we look up for it, as was seen on Sunday. (How good were those celebrations when Torres scored?)

[sir roger]

I think as well as Man Utd's mentality about expecting to score , there is also the other side of the coin where the opposition expect them to score also which often becomes self-fulfilling.

 

This came home to me in their game at Bolton. Bolton had dealt fairly easily up to the

90th minute mark but you could tell that rather than gaining confidence they got more neurotic expecting Utd to score. Eventually 2 defenders dived in ridiculously on the edge of the box at a nothing ball , the ball evaded them ran through to Tevez , he crossed for Berbatov & goodnight Vienna.

 

This mindset has been earned by Man Utd over many years much in the way we in the

80's caused Desailly's mate to say ' All you ever get at Anfield is a cup of tea '

 

We did not have this fear factor , so needed to be very forceful at Anfield early on this season to dampen subsequent opposition hopes . Unfortunately due to a few ropey performances and the disappearance of Torres' goals through injuries this has given visiting teams a genuine prospect of getting a result.

 

This has also happened more obviously in Chelsea's home form since we & Arsenal shattered their invincibility. Even Southend & Burnley have taken the piss since then.

 

As espoused by earlier posters , the only way to build up the aura is by becoming much more positive at home and if we get a few decent wins on the back of the Chelsea game the subsequent games come easier as the opposition are more cowed , the players more confident & the the crowd are more relaxed and supportive.

[ScottyT]

It's frustating that we've become such a soft touch at home, with Benitez content to control the game instead of releasing the shackles. I'd rather win 3-2 than cling onto a 1-0 for 75 minutes.

 

I don't want us to be Newcastle under Keegan, but our defence is so good that if we are more positive it's likely we'd win the game.

[isr]

I was sat in the Chineese chippy near me a few weeks back and as I was waiting for my grub to be presented to me (half-fried rice, half-chips and curry, of course) I got to reading the back section of the M.E.N. Inside it had an article with a lot of comments from Darren Fletcher of Manchester United. The comments were, as usual much of a muchness but one small section of what he was saying made me think a little. He was saying how important it was that whilst the team was grinding out the ugly 1-0 wins it was important to the team that the fans had been there before and knew the score. The point he was making was that due to the past, and their title chases, the fans knew not to get nervous and twitchy if it was still 0-0 with twenty to go, which was a good thing for the team because that then transfers over to the pitch.

 

Does anyone else think that this is a good point and that it holds a certain amount of relevance to ourselves, given that this is the first time in a while that we feel we have a sniff of the title and that the desire to see 19 come home is an overriding one?

 

Stu, point well made - but its something people have been saying since the begining of the season. Those who get it, already knew it. Those who still don't get it, never will.

 

A large part of breaking our title drought will involve holding our nerve. Thats never much of a problem when you're on top form, but when you're not - thats when you need character, and the resolve to drag ugly 1-0's out of the bag.

 

In the end, its always down to the players on the pitch. Great support isn't even a pre-requisite. Even with some of the worst supporters around, you can still do something.

 

Look at Chelsea. Decades of well-earned reputation for having a Millwall-type support base. Rich Russian Oil Thief (I still can't figure out how a bunch of them managed to get Yeltsin to sign over Russia's natural resources over for next to nothing - theft of the century) comes in, and a few truckloads of cash later - 2 league titles, 2 league cups and 1 fa cup.

 

Not even the most blinkered of Chelski fans would really believe that any of that was down to their "amazing support" helping them when the chips were down. Hardly. Look at them now. 1 season without a trophy, and they're already sinking their teeth into a new manager (some guy who "obviously" doesnt have a clue, despite winning titles in Brazil, and winning the World Cup, and taking Portugal to 2nd in the Euro's and 4th in the last World Cup).

 

Remember that whole cringeworthy episode of them distributing plastic flags at last years CL semi final, in a vain attempt at generating an atmosphere to intimidate Liverpool. 5 trophies in 3 years, and they still needed to force their fans to generate a real atmosphere.

 

So, having great fans isn't a pre-requisite to delivering success.

 

But are we happy with that? Do we want to be a club (fuck the current owners and CEO. By club I mean the team, support staff, and fans) who won DESPITE our fans, or won partially BECAUSE of them.

 

The real question is, how many of our fans are happy to demand success first, and then give their support. And how many are happy to give their support, in the hope that it may play a small part in helping the team achieve the success they crave.

 

And right to the point that Fletcher (and you) brought up. Even if we play very tentatively for the first 15 minutes at our next Anfield game - loud groans all around the ground for the next 75 won't really help.

 

Sure, you bought a ticket, and went to the game. So what. Thats supposed to be a priviledge, a fun thing to partake in. Not a punishment, or an exercise in self-flagellation. If you spend half the game getting on the players backs, then honestly, the team would have been better off if some clueless out-of-town day tripper (who wouldn't know the difference between Shanks and Busby) bought the ticket instead.

[isr]

I think as well as Man Utd's mentality about expecting to score , there is also the other side of the coin where the opposition expect them to score also which often becomes self-fulfilling.

 

Thats true, a point well made. But its only part of the story.

 

There are many factors which come into play, which effect "mentality" or "morale" - which then goes on to affect the result. You highlighted one. Here's another.

 

The players feel the fans frustration with them before the game even begins. They're nervous, and tentative. After 15 mins of holding their frustrations in check, the crowd now starts to groan audibly at every misplaced pass, and every miscontrol of the ball. Now the players are even more tentative and nervous.

 

Another self-fulfulling cycle.

 

Unlike the one you mentioned though, this is one particular factor which the match-going support has total, complete and immediate control over.

 

So instead of whining about what we can't do, why not focus on what we CAN do.

[isr]

It's frustating that we've become such a soft touch at home

 

We're not a "soft touch" at home. We haven't lost a single game at home this season. Not one.

 

Our one glaring problem at home has been an inability to breakdown teams who come and just park the bus. The single biggest reason why some teams do this is because any other tactic will 99% of the time result in them getting twatted.

 

We're not the only team with that problem. Especially this season. And it doesn't qualify as being "a soft touch".

[Manny]

I feel we're not united enough - and I'm not talking about fan division here. We know the hierarchy don't have confidence in Rafa. I think Rafa's confident, but I don't think he conveys that confidence to the players. As for the fans, we have zero confidence in the hierarchy, and the confidence in the manager is wobbling. Compare that with the mancs - fuck it, even fucking Villa - and every aspect of the club has total faith in the other. We're in utter turmoil at the moment, and I feel something drastic has to happen to kick us up the arse. I pray it's a change of ownership, but I fear it'll be something worse.

[Ged B]

It's a two-way thing is the support of the crowd though Monty. It relies on the players giving the impression they want to win a game and far too often we are happy to pass the ball sideways and backwards and keep "control" of the game. I think it's down to the way Rafa wants us to play and his preference to avoid defeat over pushing for the win. Look at the Hull game, great support from the fans when we were chasing the game at 2 down because we were clearly going for it, but this died off on the second half as we accepted the point. The Mancs will throw everything at the other team if they are drawing and this is part of the reason why their support are more patient.

 

The crowd will play their part if we look up for it, as was seen on Sunday. (How good were those celebrations when Torres scored?)

 

That's spot on that.

[ScottyT]

We're not a "soft touch" at home. We haven't lost a single game at home this season. Not one.

 

'Soft touch' as in we're easy to defend against because of our approach. Even the poorest sides can come and sit deep and look comfortable, hence the 4 draws.

[The Thong]

Yea Mourihno had a 300 million pound team to play with aswell but it wasnt that it was his mindset and management style.

 

Indeed, it is the difference between Grant and Ranieiri, and Moany Ho. You can't just throw money at a problem - a team and players need to be managed. Money gets you the tools and a platform but management ultimately wins you the league. Chavs under Scolari, Grant and Ranieiri v. Chavs under Moany Ho is a good example.

[Roy Hobbs]

I was sat in the Chineese chippy near me a few weeks back and as I was waiting for my grub to be presented to me (half-fried rice, half-chips and curry, of course) I got to reading the back section of the M.E.N. Inside it had an article with a lot of comments from Darren Fletcher of Manchester United. The comments were, as usual much of a muchness but one small section of what he was saying made me think a little. He was saying how important it was that whilst the team was grinding out the ugly 1-0 wins it was important to the team that the fans had been there before and knew the score. The point he was making was that due to the past, and their title chases, the fans knew not to get nervous and twitchy if it was still 0-0 with twenty to go, which was a good thing for the team because that then transfers over to the pitch.

 

Does anyone else think that this is a good point and that it holds a certain amount of relevance to ourselves, given that this is the first time in a while that we feel we have a sniff of the title and that the desire to see 19 come home is an overriding one?

 

 

Interesting. Anfield seems to start well but if we don't score in the first 20-25 minutes anxiety takes over. The mancs are happy to be close because they have come from behind, led all the way etc etc (fucking wankers) so they remain confident.

 

I think the 18 titles adds some also for the match goer. I expect those that live in Liverpool have used that as a weapon in a war of words and losing that (well we still have 5!!) advantage is something they didn't see coming.

 

Fuck it though, even if they win it's only level. Eventually the old whisky nosed cunt will retire and if we are settled with this sort of squad we will take over again.

[Kop4Ever2008]

Yeah Fletcher who might be a average player but has prob won more medals than any of our squad together!! that's the problem even Man U's squad players have experience of run in's

 

this is Fletchers medal list

 

* Premier League

o Winner (2): 2006–07, 2007–08

o Runner-up (1): 2005–06

* FA Cup

o Winner (1): 2003–04

o Runner-up (2): 2004–05, 2006–07

* Football League Cup

o Winner (1): 2006

* FA Community Shield

o Winner (3): 2003, 2007, 2008

o Runner-up (1): 2004

* UEFA Champions League:

o Winner (1): 2007–08

* UEFA Super Cup

o Runner-up (1): 2008

* FIFA Club World Cup

o Winner (1): 2008

 

We could do with a few squad players like that!!

[The Thong]

Yeah Fletcher who might be a average player but has prob won more medals than any of our squad together!! that's the problem even Man U's squad players have experience of run in's

 

this is Fletchers medal list

 

* Premier League

o Winner (2): 2006–07, 2007–08

o Runner-up (1): 2005–06

* FA Cup

o Winner (1): 2003–04

o Runner-up (2): 2004–05, 2006–07

* Football League Cup

o Winner (1): 2006

* FA Community Shield

o Winner (3): 2003, 2007, 2008

o Runner-up (1): 2004

* UEFA Champions League:

o Winner (1): 2007–08

* UEFA Super Cup

o Runner-up (1): 2008

* FIFA Club World Cup

o Winner (1): 2008

 

We could do with a few squad players like that!!

 

Fair fucks to that and him. The thing about a player about Feltcher is that he is Manc through and through - they could bench the cunt all season but for the last game he would still give 100%. that is the advantage of home grown players - same with John OShite. We need more solid cunts on the bench who will give 100% and support the effort, not go missing.