Perspective:

[RedKnight]

They never were. Sorry like but that's the way I see it.

[Guest TK-421]

They never were. Sorry like but that's the way I see it.

 

The Mancs had to win their games in hand to catch up.

[Section_31]

We don't help ourselves - that's where the furstration comes from.

 

Being a Liverpool fan involves watching your club sometimes snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, but all too often, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

All too often we've had matches, opponents, even whole competitions, by the balls and all we had to do was squeeze - but we never do.

 

We just never squeeze those balls.

[Vincent Vega]

Is anyone else looking over their shoulder? Arsenal are considered to have had a terrible season, yet they are only 6 points behind us now.

 

I agree with aws in that most teams seem to have improved this year and that the overall quality of the PL has improved - Villa, Wigan, Fulham and West Ham (probably due to Steve Clarke more than Zola) are all far better teams than last year.

 

We are too easy to play against though and most teams come with the same game plan - men behind the ball and force us to break them down. This started under Houllier and is something Rafa is still to get to grips with almost 5 years later. We are too reliant on a couple if players and if teams keep those players quiet we look toothless.

[dave u]

Not looking over my shoulder yet, but if we don't win our next league game then I probably will do.

 

A lot of people on this forum hate O'Neill and don't rate him, but how many points are Villa behind us? He'd love nothing more than to finish above Rafa after all the shit last summer. We need to start putting some distance between us and them again before they smell blood.

 

And Arsenal look to have put their really bad spell behind them, so we need to get back on track sharpish.

 

I can't help looking at what happened to Arsenal last season when they fell from top to third.

[Duncan Clench]

Which team isn't reliant on a couple of players to provide the spark?

 

It's very tight. across the whole league which is healthy. The problem is that every point, goal and game is sensationalised in the media and people actually believe it.

 

We're in a good spot. Could be better but could be much worse.

 

Villa are the team to beat now!

[Section_31]

Regards looking over our shoulders, I think we'll be alright, Torres will start firing soon.

 

Some productive transfer activity wouldn't go amiss though

[captainharris]

Which team isn't reliant on a couple of players to provide the spark?

 

It's very tight. across the whole league which is healthy. The problem is that every point, goal and game is sensationalised in the media and people actually believe it.

 

We're in a good spot. Could be better but could be much worse.

 

Villa are the team to beat now!

 

This is true, and it's not only the media but also the fans who sensationalise everything. If we get a good win it's "we're gonna win the league, no stopping us now", a draw "two points dropped when will Rafa learn that you need to win games", loss "Sack Rafa, shithouse tactics.. XYZ aren't good enough for Liverpool".

 

Next week, we get a win against Wigan and the Mancs draw, everyone will be on cloud 9 again. We've had a few blips this season, but so has everyone else, and it's more than possible that those teams will continue to have blips right up until may... especially as the champions league kicks off soon.

[Catch22]

Here we go. 2nd aint so bad.

 

The fact is our negative approach is costing us and will continue to cost us. Same thing happened again yesterday as soon as we went one up. Complete change of mindset. Surrendered the initiative completely.

Now this is the key, this is the way Benitez plays, if you don't like it then you'd better start advocating someone else, he is not going to change.

 

We've thrown away a title because of of this, not just a challenge but a title. I think it may have been in one of Dave's match reports back after the Hull home game, when the players just had to go for it being 2 down and as soon as we pulled it back and Rafa got them in the dressing room, he stifled things, he wanted control. Cue a more staid 2nd half. It drives him mental to see players being impetuous, being given free reign or pushing on and possibly leaving a few gaps.

 

Well pissed off.

 

 

If we are too defensive why are the Mancs in so much btter a position but with less goals scored? Because they have conceeded less.

 

It is not that we are too defensive

 

It is that our budget is vastly lower so our squad players are much weaker

[Catch22]

Is anyone else looking over their shoulder? Arsenal are considered to have had a terrible season, yet they are only 6 points behind us now.

 

I agree with aws in that most teams seem to have improved this year and that the overall quality of the PL has improved - Villa, Wigan, Fulham and West Ham (probably due to Steve Clarke more than Zola) are all far better teams than last year.

 

We are too easy to play against though and most teams come with the same game plan - men behind the ball and force us to break them down. This started under Houllier and is something Rafa is still to get to grips with almost 5 years later. We are too reliant on a couple if players and if teams keep those players quiet we look toothless.

 

 

3rd was always the realistic & important due to the CL changes target.

 

Nothing has changed this season to deflect me from that

[KevieG]

If we are too defensive why are the Mancs in so much btter a position but with less goals scored? Because they have conceeded less.

 

It is not that we are too defensive

 

It is that our budget is vastly lower so our squad players are much weaker

 

The mancs have a better defensive line up than us and their forwards aren't clicking as well this year, but their approach in general from what I have seen of them(6 or 7 games) tends to be positive and attacking.

 

 

 

Our squad is plenty good enough to win it. Plenty good enough. We should be 10 points clear. We are too cautious when needing to go for the kill, i don't even think that's open for debate.

[Hooch]

We're still in the race, but we are continuing to disappoint, that is my perspective. Rafa neds a win on sunday. This is crunch time in his Liverpool career. I hope he can deliver.

[bigal]

Perspective means the whole picture not just looking up. We are in a group of five teams, Villa are catching us and so are Arsenal who are deemed to have had a bad season. We really have chucked this challenge from a position of strength to a scramble for top four.

[Duncan Clench]

It is that our budget is vastly lower so our squad players are much weaker

 

I don't think the Manc squad is stronger than our own. Their bench looks pretty bad. I guess the difference is the experience of winning the league. It's another media point that United have a strong squad. They've got worse players than us I think. Neither are a patch on the Chavs.

 

Our squad is plenty good enough to win it. Plenty good enough. We should be 10 points clear. We are too cautious when needing to go for the kill, i don't even think that's open for debate.

 

The debate is why. I don't think Rafa sets us out defensively in these games. I think it's the players not applying the tactics correctly.

 

Mind you, I was surprised to see 4-4-2 last night. Doesn't seem to have the same fluidity about it for us.

[DJLJ]

I don't think the Manc squad is stronger than our own. Their bench looks pretty bad. I guess the difference is the experience of winning the league. It's another media point that United have a strong squad. They've got worse players than us I think. Neither are a patch on the Chavs.

 

 

 

The debate is why. I don't think Rafa sets us out defensively in these games. I think it's the players not applying the tactics correctly.

 

Mind you, I was surprised to see 4-4-2 last night. Doesn't seem to have the same fluidity about it for us.

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Section_31]

I don't think the Manc squad is stronger than our own. Their bench looks pretty bad. I guess the difference is the experience of winning the league. It's another media point that United have a strong squad. They've got worse players than us I think. Neither are a patch on the Chavs.

 

I think the other factor is the way they deploy those players.

 

As a bitter mate said to me last night "A championship-winning team wouldn't take its best player off the pitch before the match is won."

 

Can't really disagree there.

 

If Ferguson took Rooney and Ronaldo off and went with John O Shea up front instead, then conceeded a goal - no doubt scum fans would disaprove too.

[Brownie]

The Mancs may have scored less goals than us but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that they have a more offensive mentality then we do. They have the odd game (mainly against the big teams away) where they are defensive but overall they treat the other teams with a bit of contempt.

 

I think mentality/style if play is a major part of football. If you have a set way of playing then you feel better about things because you know that if you keep trying to do things in the right way, you'll be rewarded for it.

 

We change the way we play on a weekly basis, depending on the opposition and I really don't think that helps. We're a great team but draw too many games because we're to busy worrying about the opposition.

[aws]

The Mancs have got more overall quality than us up front so they are always going to be more likely to nick a game in the last ten minutes by really going for it.

 

Take out Torres and Ronaldo and then compare:

 

Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov v Kuyt, Keane and N'gog.

 

I've left Gerrard out of the equation because if we had a squad as strong as the Mancs he wouldn't be playing up front.

[DJLJ]

They have been playing Johnny Evans as central defender to cover for Ferdinand. They have been using Rafael in quite a few games, Wellbeck has come in and played for them. Untested youngsters until this season. I really do not see where this, "their squad is stronger than ours" is coming from.

[Catch22]

The mancs have a better defensive line up than us and their forwards aren't clicking as well this year, but their approach in general from what I have seen of them(6 or 7 games) tends to be positive and attacking.

 

 

 

Our squad is plenty good enough to win it. Plenty good enough. We should be 10 points clear. We are too cautious when needing to go for the kill, i don't even think that's open for debate.

 

 

 

So the Mancs have a better defensive line-up than us & they have the world player of the year + 3 £30m signings up front but our squad is better than theirs (which is what good enough to win it means)?

 

Our squad is not good enough which is completely predictable given how much less we spend

Personally i thin the "we should be 10 pts clear" is utter nonsense as it keeps all the good results & changes the bad- in whcih case every team would be 10 pts clear- but if our squad is weaker then who or what has propeeled us into that position?

[Major Tom]

 

Our squad is not good enough which is completely predictable given how much less we spend

Personally i thin the "we should be 10 pts clear" is utter nonsense as it keeps all the good results & changes the bad- in whcih case every team would be 10 pts clear- but if our squad is weaker then who or what has propeeled us into that position?

 

But we don't actually spend a whole lot less than the Mancs. They seem to blow £20m on one player, where we will buy 3 for that amount.

 

2 of which we ship out soon after.

[KevieG]

So the Mancs have a better defensive line-up than us & they have the world player of the year + 3 £30m signings up front but our squad is better than theirs (which is what good enough to win it means)?

 

Our squad is not good enough which is completely predictable given how much less we spend

Personally i thin the "we should be 10 pts clear" is utter nonsense as it keeps all the good results & changes the bad- in whcih case every team would be 10 pts clear- but if our squad is weaker then who or what has propeeled us into that position?

 

Just because they have a better squad than us doesn't mean we shouldn't be well clear of them. I actually don't think they are a million miles ahead of us in squad terms and I certainly think we have the squad to win a title, how a manager utilises his squad and also the ethos he instills in his approach to the game are very big factors

The way things fell for us this year, i personally think we should be well clear. Its a mentality thing on Rafa's part, that is my opinion.

You could see it last night when he had to make a decision about taking Torres off. Do I bring on a midfielder and shore things up but leave no threat up front or do i bring on Babel and maybe give them something to worry about on the counter. He will nearly always go for option A.

[JMARKH]

Please.

 

Some of you lads need to get a grip because you're starting to sound like Newcastle fans.

 

Worst case scenario (and most likely, admittedly) is that we're 3 points behind United in January.

 

Not too shabby is it?

 

Yes, it would have been nice to be ahead, and I do believe that we should be, but we're not. Too many points dropped but we're in a very good position.

 

You all know that the Derby is not 3 points on the board. We've got a lot of games to go, and United will drop points.

 

People have been saying this for months and having a go at the ones who have had reservations about the performances, it will be interesting to hear what excuses rafa's apologists will wheel out if say by march united continue to win as they always seem to do and we win, draw, win, draw, draw ,draw, e.t.c I'm waiting for us to string 10 wins on the trot as that is what we will need to do but the way we are playing at home seems unlikely.

[JMARKH]

Just because they have a better squad than us doesn't mean we shouldn't be well clear of them. I actually don't think they are a million miles ahead of us in squad terms and I certainly think we have the squad to win a title, how a manager utilises his squad and also the ethos he instills in his approach to the game are very big factors

The way things fell for us this year, i personally think we should be well clear. Its a mentality thing on Rafa's part, that is my opinion.

You could see it last night when he had to make a decision about taking Torres off. Do I bring on a midfielder and shore things up but leave no threat up front or do i bring on Babel and maybe give them something to worry about on the counter. He will nearly always go for option A.

 

We've spent a lot more cash than the teams who have made us look mediocre, catch 22 always bangs the finance drum as a perfect excuse for Rafa's tactical failures.

[Catch22]

Just because they have a better squad than us doesn't mean we shouldn't be well clear of them. I actually don't think they are a million miles ahead of us in squad terms and I certainly think we have the squad to win a title, how a manager utilises his squad and also the ethos he instills in his approach to the game are very big factors

The way things fell for us this year, i personally think we should be well clear. Its a mentality thing on Rafa's part, that is my opinion.

You could see it last night when he had to make a decision about taking Torres off. Do I bring on a midfielder and shore things up but leave no threat up front or do i bring on Babel and maybe give them something to worry about on the counter. He will nearly always go for option A.

 

 

Ok so they've got a much better squad but we should be well clear?

 

How does that work? That requires us to massively outperform but by defintion taht cant be the expected case or its not an ooutperformance or them to massively underperform (& 10 clean sheets in a row, a joint record, is not that)

 

Your position, like so many who criticise Rafa (& that doesn't mean that he is immune nor perfect) doesn't stand up to logic.