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Gillett and Hicks (ownership saga)

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Treading over old ground here pal.

Whats Kop Holdings only asset?

The club.

However they had to secure 50M against personal guarantee's and letters of credit which ain't worth 2 bob now!

 

This is what get's me, over on rawk there's still 1 or 2 Hicks apologists that love to remind everyone that most of the debt is secured against kop holdings so they didn't put the purchase debt onto the club after all.

 

The only source kop holdings have for repayment is the club.

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£165m is secured against the club - though £60m for the stadium start up (so far as we know) has not been used, interest should nonetheless be due on it as the fund is available. The rest is secured against Kop holdings, not US assets.

 

If we have not used the money we will not be paying interest on it, we would have paid fees at the start for the availability of the money but until we use it we would not be charged.

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Treading over old ground here pal.

Whats Kop Holdings only asset?

The club.

However they had to secure 50M against personal guarantee's and letters of credit which ain't worth 2 bob now!

 

I think you miss my point - the point being, that the loan (rolled up as a total of around £356m) is not secured against any of G&H's stateside assets - you're right about personal guarantees et al (and their worth) but effectively, although Kop Holdings is technically only a holding or even a 'shell' company (therefore the debt is not technically on the club, but on the company that manages the clubs affairs - in the end, unless you're cash rich it amounts to the same thing), they are nonetheless forced into the position of selling up if they can't pay off the loan or provide enough actual capital to meet the bank's requirements for refinancing as the value of the Holding company in and of itself is negatory.

 

Basically, it's all financial smoke and mirrors. They have to come up with the actual cash - not guarantees, not letters or notes of credit, not even offset against other assets - actual cash at the banks requirement or sell the club.

 

What we've seen in the states seems to be a slowly dawning realisation that they are not going to mug someone into investing or buying at their price and are trying to rejig their assets stateside to come up with the cash - by trying to sell chunks of the family business or Canadiens (Gillett) or as much as 49% of the Rangers and The Stars (Hicks) the problem being their are already banks stateside who want cash off them (particularly Hicks) now before RBS and Wachovia get so much as a sniff. despite Hicks' 'Non-denial Denial' in classic Watergate terms last week.

 

Based on the admittedly little slice of the picture we have, my current sense is they will have to sell, possibly at the last minute and very likely for a far bit less than the £500m they want. Next question is 'who'.

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I think you miss my point - the point being, that the loan (rolled up as a total of around £356m) is not secured against any of G&H's stateside assets - you're right about personal guarantees et al (and their worth) but effectively, although Kop Holdings is technically only a holding or even a 'shell' company (therefore the debt is not technically on the club, but on the company that manages the clubs affairs - in the end, unless you're cash rich it amounts to the same thing), they are nonetheless forced into the position of selling up if they can't pay off the loan or provide enough actual capital to meet the bank's requirements for refinancing as the value of the Holding company in and of itself is negatory.

 

Basically, it's all financial smoke and mirrors. They have to come up with the actual cash - not guarantees, not letters or notes of credit, not even offset against other assets - actual cash at the banks requirement or sell the club.

 

What we've seen in the states seems to be a slowly dawning realisation that they are not going to mug someone into investing or buying at their price and are trying to rejig their assets stateside to come up with the cash - by trying to sell chunks of the family business or Canadiens (Gillett) or as much as 49% of the Rangers and The Stars (Hicks) the problem being their are already banks stateside who want cash off them (particularly Hicks) now before RBS and Wachovia get so much as a sniff. despite Hicks' 'Non-denial Denial' in classic Watergate terms last week.

 

Based on the admittedly little slice of the picture we have, my current sense is they will have to sell, possibly at the last minute and very likely for a far bit less than the £500m they want. Next question is 'who'.

 

Abramovich!

 

Sorry, cutting down smoking here and going a bit mental. That post was a good read though and helped explain things a decent bit, thanks. It's even managed to convince me that something will happen pretty soon, and that's definitely good news. I just hope we end up with the right owner(s) this time if there's a sale, but then again, I wouldn't put it past Hicks to actually geniunely support and like the club now (how could you not have at least some love for us after witnessing this crazy fucking season and what we've managed to get through so far?), and be trying like shit to make things work out.

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I think you miss my point - the point being, that the loan (rolled up as a total of around £356m) is not secured against any of G&H's stateside assets - you're right about personal guarantees et al (and their worth) but effectively, although Kop Holdings is technically only a holding or even a 'shell' company (therefore the debt is not technically on the club, but on the company that manages the clubs affairs - in the end, unless you're cash rich it amounts to the same thing), they are nonetheless forced into the position of selling up if they can't pay off the loan or provide enough actual capital to meet the bank's requirements for refinancing as the value of the Holding company in and of itself is negatory.

 

Basically, it's all financial smoke and mirrors. They have to come up with the actual cash - not guarantees, not letters or notes of credit, not even offset against other assets - actual cash at the banks requirement or sell the club.

 

What we've seen in the states seems to be a slowly dawning realisation that they are not going to mug someone into investing or buying at their price and are trying to rejig their assets stateside to come up with the cash - by trying to sell chunks of the family business or Canadiens (Gillett) or as much as 49% of the Rangers and The Stars (Hicks) the problem being their are already banks stateside who want cash off them (particularly Hicks) now before RBS and Wachovia get so much as a sniff. despite Hicks' 'Non-denial Denial' in classic Watergate terms last week.

 

Based on the admittedly little slice of the picture we have, my current sense is they will have to sell, possibly at the last minute and very likely for a far bit less than the £500m they want. Next question is 'who'.

 

Wasn't missing the point, just wanted you to clarify your statement which you've done. If what you say comes to pass then I really fear for the club especially if these two leave it to the last minute as they could do a worse job than what DM and RP did! Can you really see them doing a thourough check on the presepctive new owners?

Not a chance all they care about is how long before the cheque clears!

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Abramovich!

 

Sorry, cutting down smoking here and going a bit mental. That post was a good read though and helped explain things a decent bit, thanks. It's even managed to convince me that something will happen pretty soon, and that's definitely good news. I just hope we end up with the right owner(s) this time if there's a sale, but then again, I wouldn't put it past Hicks to actually geniunely support and like the club now (how could you not have at least some love for us after witnessing this crazy fucking season and what we've managed to get through so far?), and be trying like shit to make things work out.

 

What?!

The LBO king whose let companies and another football team go to the wall without as much as batting an eyelid. The man who unashamedly helped himself with Dallas Uni (or whatever they're called) money when president?

The only love he has is money, his own, and he'll be damned if he has to spend a penny of it on the likes of us!

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Wasn't missing the point, just wanted you to clarify your statement which you've done. If what you say comes to pass then I really fear for the club especially if these two leave it to the last minute as they could do a worse job than what DM and RP did! Can you really see them doing a thourough check on the presepctive new owners?

Not a chance all they care about is how long before the cheque clears!

 

FWIW I don't think the potential new owners would come as any surprise to us - but the route they get there might. Yes - I think the Dubaians are still very much in the frame and biding their time.

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Wasn't missing the point, just wanted you to clarify your statement which you've done. If what you say comes to pass then I really fear for the club especially if these two leave it to the last minute as they could do a worse job than what DM and RP did! Can you really see them doing a thourough check on the presepctive new owners?

Not a chance all they care about is how long before the cheque clears!

 

Yeah, that's a sickening thing that has a chance of happening, and it sucks. I just hope Hicks or whoever there is out of those guys doing the deal, have enough heart for the club now to at least put an effort in with something like that and make sure they don't send us to hell. I'm still sure that Hicks at least is actually fond of the club (to some level anyway.) now though, and hopefully that'll change things in that situation.

 

What?!

The LBO king whose let companies and another football team go to the wall without as much as batting an eyelid. The man who unashamedly helped himself with Dallas Uni (or whatever they're called) money when president?

The only love he has is money, his own, and he'll be damned if he has to spend a penny of it on the likes of us!

 

Ah, just saw this. Yeah maybe I'm wrong then, I just find it hard to see how anyone could own the club, see what's happened this season, and then not care at all. It just boggles the mind. Maybe I have too much faith in people, heh.

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What?!

The LBO king whose let companies and another football team go to the wall without as much as batting an eyelid. The man who unashamedly helped himself with Dallas Uni (or whatever they're called) money when president?

The only love he has is money, his own, and he'll be damned if he has to spend a penny of it on the likes of us!

 

That is it in a nutshell. He has said (not in specific reference to us) 'One must not allow oneself to become personally or emotionally attached to an asset or business as this reduces and impairs the ability to make necessary decisions'

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Yeah, that's a sickening thing that has a chance of happening, and it sucks. I just hope Hicks or whoever there is out of those guys doing the deal, have enough heart for the club now to at least put an effort in with something like that and make sure they don't send us to hell. I'm still sure that Hicks at least is actually fond of the club (to some level anyway.) now though, and hopefully that'll change things in that situation.

 

They will eventually sell if they have to to whoever has the money - that simple. Luckily for us, that reduces the field in the current financial climate to the usual suspects.

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Liverpool Is Next

 

Living in denial is a recipe for disaster. Take former LBO king Tom Hicks, whose sports properties—Texas Rangers, Dallas Stars, Liverpool—have accumulated piles of debt. Hicks should have raised equity or cashed out of these teams months ago but obviously refused to acknowledge the depth of the financial crises. Now he will pay a steep price.

 

Last week Hicks reportedly defaulted on more than $525 million in bank loans tied to the Stars and Rangers and is making a mad dash for cash to avoid foreclosure. That means he will likely have to sell his interest in the teams, previously worth $270 million and $400 million, respectively, at steep discounts. Shame on the NHL and MLB for allowing Hicks to saddle his teams with so much debt—their bad balance sheets could have a domino effect on the two leagues.

 

Next up is Liverpool, the famed English soccer club worth $1 billion. Liverpool has $600 million of debt and a big chunk of it must be paid off or refinanced withing the next three months. Hicks will probably sell his 50% interest for much less than $500 million.

 

 

SportsMoney by Mike Ozanian

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Liverpool Is Next

 

Living in denial is a recipe for disaster. Take former LBO king Tom Hicks, whose sports properties—Texas Rangers, Dallas Stars, Liverpool—have accumulated piles of debt. Hicks should have raised equity or cashed out of these teams months ago but obviously refused to acknowledge the depth of the financial crises. Now he will pay a steep price.

 

Last week Hicks reportedly defaulted on more than $525 million in bank loans tied to the Stars and Rangers and is making a mad dash for cash to avoid foreclosure. That means he will likely have to sell his interest in the teams, previously worth $270 million and $400 million, respectively, at steep discounts. Shame on the NHL and MLB for allowing Hicks to saddle his teams with so much debt—their bad balance sheets could have a domino effect on the two leagues.

 

Next up is Liverpool, the famed English soccer club worth $1 billion. Liverpool has $600 million of debt and a big chunk of it must be paid off or refinanced withing the next three months. Hicks will probably sell his 50% interest for much less than $500 million.

 

 

SportsMoney by Mike Ozanian

 

I'm sure is the right answer. Any cash he can raise stateside will go toward trying to tie up some remaining control in the Rangers - as his political base with Dubya and his whole US profile are tied up in this...ergo, his ability to raise cash and pay off RBS/Wachovia is severely denuded if not utterly destroyed.

 

Weirdly, Gillett is in a slightly better position than he is financially, but he will want out too to make sure his Canadiens stay in his stable.

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I'm sure is the right answer. Any cash he can raise stateside will go toward trying to tie up some remaining control in the Rangers - as his political base with Dubya and his whole US profile are tied up in this...ergo, his ability to raise cash and pay off RBS/Wachovia is severely denuded if not utterly destroyed.

 

Weirdly, Gillett is in a slightly better position than he is financially, but he will want out too to make sure his Canadiens stay in his stable.

 

Could it also be a case of where loyalties lie ?

 

Not a word Id usually asscoiate with them 2 but surely they have more loyalty towards their american sports interests than LFC . . .

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I'm sure is the right answer. Any cash he can raise stateside will go toward trying to tie up some remaining control in the Rangers - as his political base with Dubya and his whole US profile are tied up in this...ergo, his ability to raise cash and pay off RBS/Wachovia is severely denuded if not utterly destroyed.

 

Weirdly, Gillett is in a slightly better position than he is financially, but he will want out too to make sure his Canadiens stay in his stable.

 

I think Gillett is fucked. I hope they have to sell at a much lower price than they want as I want them to make as little as possible from their clubjacking. I would also prefer it that the new owners have more money available to develop the club in the right direction.

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FWIW I don't think the potential new owners would come as any surprise to us - but the route they get there might. Yes - I think the Dubaians are still very much in the frame and biding their time.

 

I also agree that this is an option. Sheik Mo prefers to win and normally does in the end.

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Could it also be a case of where loyalties lie ?

 

Not a word Id usually asscoiate with them 2 but surely they have more loyalty towards their american sports interests than LFC . . .

 

Not just loyalty, but pragmatism. Hicks is also a political animal (Staunch Republican, friend and buyer of the Rangers from Dubya - who he's now trying to get to buy back in on a minority holding - as if!), and his power base is in Texas. Apart from his Sports interests there being up shit creek, he also has a major shopping Mall and Hotel complex as well as the Glory park projects all in a similar hiatus state to the build on our stadium - the only notable difference being huge wads of bank money have already been spent on these projects, which is why the banks want their cash back - now. His kudos among the Republican political set of Texas would be hugely damaged if he fucks up the stuff on his own doorstep - texan money, texan jobs - texan voters etc.

 

Gillett is a more 'ambivalent' figure in this way. Not clearly associated to any political clique, he is incredibly popular with most of the Montreal Canadiens fans (where he is seen as a 'good' owner!) and has political friends of all shades inside the Canadian administration. He has repeatedly said he wants to see Hicks out of Anfield before he leaves - whether this is bluster or not time will tell.

 

So - both being involved with us at this time and with their extensive problems at home, makes them reminiscent of armies with over-stretched lines of communication, a lack of supplies, ammo and on-site command structure.

 

If it comes down to it, their real interests remain stateside - we were a 5-7 year fast and expansive profit making exercise that has gone badly wrong as they didn't see which way the wind was blowing - and, even if they had - given the LBO nature of their strategies there was pretty much fuck all they could do to alter it.

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Liverpool Is Next

 

Living in denial is a recipe for disaster. Take former LBO king Tom Hicks, whose sports properties—Texas Rangers, Dallas Stars, Liverpool—have accumulated piles of debt. Hicks should have raised equity or cashed out of these teams months ago but obviously refused to acknowledge the depth of the financial crises. Now he will pay a steep price.

 

Last week Hicks reportedly defaulted on more than $525 million in bank loans tied to the Stars and Rangers and is making a mad dash for cash to avoid foreclosure. That means he will likely have to sell his interest in the teams, previously worth $270 million and $400 million, respectively, at steep discounts. Shame on the NHL and MLB for allowing Hicks to saddle his teams with so much debt—their bad balance sheets could have a domino effect on the two leagues.

 

Next up is Liverpool, the famed English soccer club worth $1 billion. Liverpool has $600 million of debt and a big chunk of it must be paid off or refinanced withing the next three months. Hicks will probably sell his 50% interest for much less than $500 million.

 

 

SportsMoney by Mike Ozanian

 

What I can't work out is why did he let it get to the stage where he defaulted these loans? If he thought he could sweet talk the banks he was

either badly misinformed or just plain stupid.

He can't be seen to lose face in his own back yard but nobody will pay what he wants for his shares due to the loans he's heaped on both the Stars and the Rangers. If it gets to late May and he still can't find anyone to come in and pay what he is willing to accept for both teams he'll have no choice but to sell his stake in LFC as that would free the assets he put down as gaurantee's against the loan. Thats, of course if he hasn't already used the Stars or Rangers as a guarantee, now that would leave him proper fucked!

However if he left it till then he risks getting next to nothing in terms of profit. Sell now and you'll have more bargining power at the risk of the financial situation improving closer to the deadline and prehaps getting the refinance. Even if the situation does improve he still needs to pay the loans off and refinance still needs to be done and what does he have left to bargain with as it would probably have been used to pay the Stars & Rangers loans off if nobody puts a stake in ?

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Not just loyalty, but pragmatism. Hicks is also a political animal (Staunch Republican, friend and buyer of the Rangers from Dubya - who he's now trying to get to buy back in on a minority holding - as if!), and his power base is in Texas. Apart from his Sports interests there being up shit creek, he also has a major shopping Mall and Hotel complex as well as the Glory park projects all in a similar hiatus state to the build on our stadium - the only notable difference being huge wads of bank money have already been spent on these projects, which is why the banks want their cash back - now. His kudos among the Republican political set of Texas would be hugely damaged if he fucks up the stuff on his own doorstep - texan money, texan jobs - texan voters etc.

 

Gillett is a more 'ambivalent' figure in this way. Not clearly associated to any political clique, he is incredibly popular with most of the Montreal Canadiens fans (where he is seen as a 'good' owner!) and has political friends of all shades inside the Canadian administration. He has repeatedly said he wants to see Hicks out of Anfield before he leaves - whether this is bluster or not time will tell.

 

So - both being involved with us at this time and with their extensive problems at home, makes them reminiscent of armies with over-stretched lines of communication, a lack of supplies, ammo and on-site command structure.

 

If it comes down to it, their real interests remain stateside - we were a 5-7 year fast and expansive profit making exercise that has gone badly wrong as they didn't see which way the wind was blowing - and, even if they had - given the LBO nature of their strategies there was pretty much fuck all they could do to alter it.

 

Don't know why but Operation Market Garden suddenly sprung into my head reading that! Started off well but failed in its final objective?

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Tom Hicks' Sports Group defaults on loans

 

09:25 AM CDT on Tuesday, April 7, 2009

By GARY JACOBSON / The Dallas Morning News

gjacobson@dallasnews.com

 

Tom Hicks' sports holding company, Hicks Sports Group, which owns the Texas Rangers and the Dallas Stars, officially went into default Monday on $525 million of loans.

 

Hicks stopped making interest-only payments March 31 as he renegotiates the teams' debt with about 40 lenders.

 

The loan agreements mature in December 2010 and December 2011, according to lending data available on Bloomberg.

 

Tom Hicks' Sports Group defaults on loans | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Dallas Business News

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Tom Hicks' Sports Group defaults on loans

 

09:25 AM CDT on Tuesday, April 7, 2009

By GARY JACOBSON / The Dallas Morning News

gjacobson@dallasnews.com

 

Tom Hicks' sports holding company, Hicks Sports Group, which owns the Texas Rangers and the Dallas Stars, officially went into default Monday on $525 million of loans.

 

Hicks stopped making interest-only payments March 31 as he renegotiates the teams' debt with about 40 lenders.

 

The loan agreements mature in December 2010 and December 2011, according to lending data available on Bloomberg.

 

Tom Hicks' Sports Group defaults on loans | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Dallas Business News

 

Could someone economically skilled please explain what this means for Hicks, Gillet and Liverpool FC?

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Guest Kenny
Could someone economically skilled please explain what this means for Hicks, Gillet and Liverpool FC?

 

Hopefully that they have to sell, but they will keep us, we are stuck with them.

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Could someone economically skilled please explain what this means for Hicks, Gillet and Liverpool FC?

 

It means that I'm going to wait another three weeks or so, then get a trampy looking mate to turn up at Anfield to hand over my offer of £13.67 for Liverpool Football Club to Messrs Hicks and Gillett.

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