Should Rafa have complete control over transfers?

[redrosetints]

I think the basic problem with giving the manager "full control" is when the manager leaves. When GH left, we counted the cost of spending so much money on players like Smicer, Traore, Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, La Tallec etc. It wasn't easy to get rid of these players and when we eventually got rid of them, we had already spent a fortune on their wages and the transfer money we got from them were peanuts.

 

It is easy to say that Rafa should have the full control of a transfer budget. What if he signs useless players for 2 seasons in a row and then leaves? The new manager won't be able to get rid of those players easily and the longer they stay, they will eat the wage budget and we won't be able to bring someone with quality.

 

I don't think there is an easy answer to this. Ideally, the manager comes up with a list, manager+CEO decide what the player is worth depending on the transfer budget/market/his ability/existing contract length /age/experience/etc and put a bid in. If we can get him for the value we have set, fine. Otherwise move onto the next target. As much as we hate Parry, he should know the transfer market and some idea on how much the player is worth.

 

So you think Parry or any CEO has a better idea of who will fit our system and style, better than Rafa ? How can Parry know who a manager needs to fit his game plan ? Parry can't even turn his phone on FFS. Rafa is our playing CEO, let him deal with all footballing matters. And that goes for all managers, not just now with Rafa and Parry, but whoever we have.

 

There are no absolutes in football transfers, everyone gets em wrong, the key is to get more right and the best do, Wenger, Rafa, Fergie etc

 

Essentially, what your talking about a DoF here, and I don't agree with that. Look at Spurs, they sacked the best manager they'd had in 20 years because he didnt like Colomi, now after two more managers and millions of pounds of mistakes, Levy realised Colomi was the problem (Its not Colomi but something like that) and got rid.

[Guest Dog Chaser]

Damien Comolli

[Carra_is_legend]

So you think Parry or any CEO has a better idea of who will fit our system and style, better than Rafa ? Parry can't even turn his phone on FFS. Rafa is our playing CEO, let him deal with all footballing matters.

 

There are no absolutes in football transfers, everyone gets em wrong, the key is to get more right and the best do, Wenger, Rafa, Fergie etc

 

Essentially, what your talking about a DoF here, and I don't agree with that. Look at Spurs, they sacked the best manager they'd had in 20 years because he didnt like Colomi, now after two more managers and millions of pounds of mistakes, Levy realised Colomi was the problem (Its not Colomi but something like that) and got rid.

 

Who said anything about Parry knowing our system/style etc? And I wasn't talking about a DoF either. All I said was Parry should know the transfer market and have some idea of market value of players.

 

Rafa will still "identify" what players he needs and it is upto him along with the CEO to decide on a maximum price we will be willing to pay. This will depend on the criteria I mentioned in my other post. If we can get the player within this price, jolly good. If not, move on.

 

If Rafa and Parry cannot agree on the price - for example if Rafa thinks Simao is worth 20m and Parry thinks he is worth no more than £10m (or vice versa) - move onto the next target.

 

I'm sure Fergie would love to keep Tevez even if he costs £30m. But obviously the board is having some problem with something - most likely the price of the player. This doesn't mean Fergie doesn't have total control over transfers at Utd - this just means, tough shit. That is how it goes sometimes. The manager should deal with it.

[redrosetints]

Who said anything about Parry knowing our system/style etc? And I wasn't talking about a DoF either. All I said was Parry should know the transfer market and have some idea of market value of players.

 

Rafa will still "identify" what players he needs and it is upto him along with the CEO to decide on a maximum price we will be willing to pay. This will depend on the criteria I mentioned in my other post. If we can get the player within this price, jolly good. If not, move on.

 

If Rafa and Parry cannot agree on the price - for example if Rafa thinks Simao is worth 20m and Parry thinks he is worth no more than £10m (or vice versa) - move onto the next target.

 

I'm sure Fergie would love to keep Tevez even if he costs £30m. But obviously the board is having some problem with something - most likely the price of the player. This doesn't mean Fergie doesn't have total control over transfers at Utd - this just means, tough shit. That is how it goes sometimes. The manager should deal with it.

 

Fergie just bought Berbatov for 30m, there is a difference !

 

I wouldnt let Rafa or any manager near the commercial side of the operation (Mind you he coudnt do alot worse) ditto I wouldnt let Parry decide the market value of a player. He's regularly over time shown he doesnt know the market value of a player.

[Carra_is_legend]

I wouldnt let Rafa or any manager near the commercial side of the operation (Mind you he coudnt do alot worse) ditto I wouldnt let Parry decide the market value of a player. He's regularly over time shown he doesnt know the market value of a player.

 

Rafa knows the true value of a player doesn't he? He thought he could sell Alonso and buy Barry making profit in the process. Barry's price was £18m and Alonso attracted a bid of what, £12m?

 

I'm not saying Parry is perfect but he is what we got at the moment. Transfers should happen with the agreement of everyone within the club. One man deciding the whole thing is very very risky - especially when he leaves the club.

[dave u]

According to motor-mouth Harry Redknapp, talking to his mates in the press 'off-the-record' (of course), Robbie Keane feels that the manager never wanted him and that he was bought for Rafa by Parry as a sop for failing to land buy Gareth Barry. Parry was desperate to complete a deal. It seems more plausible to me that Keane was simply ONE of Rafa's identified targets, but that Parry went on and got him.

 

Amazing what Harry Redknapp seems to know....

 

Come on, does anyone really believe that Rafa would just accept Parry spending £20m on a player he didn't really want? There's no way on earth he'd accept it.

 

It's been said before, but what happened was Rafa said he wanted Keane and Barry. Parry was trying for Barry but was struggling to do a deal. He was also negotiating for Keane, and struck a deal with Spurs.

 

He went to Rafa and said he'd agreed the deal with Spurs, and it was all ready to go through.

 

Once everything was in place, Rafa asked Parry to stall Spurs for a fortnight, so he could pay Villa what they wanted for Barry, and then raise the money (preferably by selling Xabi) to go back and do the Keane deal.

 

Parry said no, as we'd just sold Crouch and needed a striker, and because he was worried Spurs would cancel the deal through being messed about. Things were a bit delicate with Spurs anyway over how it was handled.

 

He told Rafa we had to get Keane, but that he could go back for Barry when he'd sold Alonso. Rafa was pissed off, and even more so when the Barry/Alonso thing didn't happen.

[The Dude Abides]

Well yeah, i think he should be given a budget to work off and if he wants to pay X amount from his budget on a player, he should be allowed do so. Maybe i'd feel differently if we the club was in more capable hands. But clearly we're not, so until then Rafa is the one and only one who should have input into the decisions. Only have to look at the list of names we've missed out on to see this.

 

I think there may be something to that Keane story too. I've no doubt Rafa probably had him on a list somewhere, but probably never wanted to spend the money we ended up spending on him.

[TommyW]

wasnt Keane Rafa's "big surprise" that Ballague alluded to earlier in the year?

 

there's no chance he was bought without Rafa's say so, it looks like it may prove to be a bad deal but that's life Rafa did want him

[millomred]

In my opinion Rafa is not a stupid man, he is a very clever operator.I belive that he should be given complete control of team affairs and if that includes transfers then so be it.

Parry is a fucking knob and should have fuck all to do with anything relating to the team, club matters maybe.

Look at what Rafa has achieved with one hand tied behind his back.

[The Dude Abides]

wasnt Keane Rafa's "big surprise" that Ballague alluded to earlier in the year?

 

there's no chance he was bought without Rafa's say so, it looks like it may prove to be a bad deal but that's life Rafa did want him

 

Who knows, i clearly remember Ballague saying that player could and would play on the right. Don't think Keane has ever played there. Ballague likes to cover as many bases as possible when he says anything.

[Captain]

Parry said no, as we'd just sold Crouch and needed a striker, and because he was worried Spurs would cancel the deal through being messed about.

 

Jesus wept.

[WaltonRed]

I think he should be given a budget and then he should be allowed to spend what he wishes on whoever he wishes out of that.

 

Managers should live and die on their decisions.

[sir roger]

I think he should be given a budget and then he should be allowed to spend what he wishes on whoever he wishes out of that.

 

Managers should live and die on their decisions.

 

Agree totally with that.

 

Somebody said earlier that Parry should outweigh Rafa in deciding transfer prices. Fuck that. Why should a pen-pusher's view hold any credence against a multi-decorated football man.

 

Don't think Rafa should be allowed control over the Academy though & if he wants to buy any players for the reserves , they should come out of the original budget & reduce his pot for 1st team players accordingly.

[ToxtethTerror]

It would be going a little too far to give a manager 100% control of the transfers and the academy. And only a fool would say that Rafa shouldn't have all control of the first team. I think the situation is simple - no player should bought into the club or sold by the club without the recommendation of the manager. On the other side, the realities of players age/re-sale value, background (e.g. Lee Bowyer) and squad size should be finalised by the board as they impact on the image and financial realities of any club. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

[ToxtethTerror]

I think he should be given a budget and then he should be allowed to spend what he wishes on whoever he wishes out of that.

 

Managers should live and die on their decisions.

 

What would stop a manager buying all his "mates" ala Terry Venables or to a lesser extent Houllier and then lumbering the club with dead beats on large contracts long after he has left? What would stop a manager buying the likes of Bowyer and Barton and tarnishing the image of the club?

[sir roger]

What would stop a manager buying all his "mates" ala Terry Venables or to a lesser extent Houllier and then lumbering the club with dead beats on large contracts long after he has left? What would stop a manager buying the likes of Bowyer and Barton and tarnishing the image of the club?

 

You have a valid point TT , but we are talking about Rafa here. I suspect he's the type who photocopies luncheon vouchers he uses in case he is quizzed about them 5 years later.

[Blackbeard]

I think we should just stick a goatee on the Liver Bird and call us Rafapool.

 

Jesus, they say nobody is bigger than the club, yet one man is trying to overcome that miff. What he wants does not happen at any other club, so why do we bow down.

 

Is he also in charge of what players earn? open to biggest load of corruption in world football.

 

And as Dave U said that is totally correct over buying Keane, maybe the manager should not have told the board that he could sell Alonso to Madrid for 25m and buy barry for 12m

 

Also what people dont know was there was never an offer from Madrid that was just bullshit, Juve made an enquiry and offered 12m and Arsenal offered 10m. yes rafa had spoken to O'neill and a 12m price for barry was in the pipeline till he blew the deal to tony barrett who rightly blew the story, this caused murder within villa and O'neill told him it had gone to 18m.

 

So lets see 25m alonso sold and barry bought for 12m player plus 13m positive, but because he messed the whole thing up he still wanted to do a deal were we sold alonso for 12m and bought barry for 18m, 6m negative. We would also have had to pay Real Sociedad 3m as part of a sell on clause.

 

Rafa tried to explain that barry could also play left back, and was met with a response of, why did you not say that at the beginning then we would not have bought dossena for 7m.

[Plev]

I think we should just stick a goatee on the Liver Bird and call us Rafapool.

 

Jesus, they say nobody is bigger than the club, yet one man is trying to overcome that miff. What he wants does not happen at any other club, so why do we bow down.

 

Is he also in charge of what players earn? open to biggest load of corruption in world football.

 

And as Dave U said that is totally correct over buying Keane, maybe the manager should not have told the board that he could sell Alonso to Madrid for 25m and buy barry for 12m

 

Also what people dont know was there was never an offer from Madrid that was just bullshit, Juve made an enquiry and offered 12m and Arsenal offered 10m. yes rafa had spoken to O'neill and a 12m price for barry was in the pipeline till he blew the deal to tony barrett who rightly blew the story, this caused murder within villa and O'neill told him it had gone to 18m.

 

So lets see 25m alonso sold and barry bought for 12m player plus 13m positive, but because he messed the whole thing up he still wanted to do a deal were we sold alonso for 12m and bought barry for 18m, 6m negative. We would also have had to pay Real Sociedad 3m as part of a sell on clause.

 

Rafa tried to explain that barry could also play left back, and was met with a response of, why did you not say that at the beginning then we would not have bought dossena for 7m.

 

Welcome aboard Rick.

[Barrington Womble]

From what i can gather Parry sets the valuation on a player and Rafa can not go above this.

 

Sounds great but when people say why did we sign Pennant and Kuyt instead of paying the £17-18 million to get Alves it sounds more and more to me because Parry had set the valuation of a player and we will not go above.

 

Its pretty well known on here that Rafa wanted Walcott and we were offered him for £350,000 but Chief Scout Parry decided he was only worth £300,000 and refused to go higher.

I seemed to remember at the time there was a zero on those figures.

[Kevin D]

If the scenario was as Coop suggested then I'd have no qualms about giving Rafa complete control however if we're talking about a situation that is a repeat of the GH days then I'd be fully opposed to it.

[Spanish_fan]

A big no to that. He doesn't seem to know how to take Liverpool to the next level. He is more concerned about getting the Rufetes and Angulos rather than the Vicentes and Aimars. He makes things difficult for himself by signing too many players that are not top quality. Quality over quantity.

[RSM]

Rafa should have as much control over transfers as his rivals Mister Ferguson and Arsene Wenger. No more and no less. And that all should also be the case for the Academy.

[Jose Jones]

I'd quite like a CEO and Manager who trusted each other and could work together for the benefit of the club when it came to transfers.

[SpeedyG]

Some of you guys are talking as though there is a way to ensure no transfer ever results in us buying a player that doesn't work out. Trust me if there was, everyone would be doing it.

 

Someone has to be accountable, so you either go the DoF route or the manager route. Who ever is accountable needs to be the one who has control. If you want to set constraints that's fine. No-one over 28, fine. Daft, but fine. I'd have no problem with that.

 

But to have the situation where as Dave describes it, Parry an accountant gets to decide that bringing in the #2 choice is more important than bringing in the #1 choice. Well then we have a problem.

[SpeedyG]

I'd quite like a CEO and Manager who trusted each other and could work together for the benefit of the club when it came to transfers.

 

Rafa doesn't strike me as the type that cares too much about getting on with people. Parry doesn't strike me as the type who would be respected by a Ferguson, Wenger or Mourinho.