Babel wants first team chance

[spider-neil]

I dont think you can measure Keanes contribution only in goals and assists though. He is in constant movement, which creates space for others to exploit. That's the simple and in my mind right way of looking at his contribution to the team. As with Dirk, I'm a bit worried we become more static if they were to be replaced by players like Babel who blows hot and cold both in terms of commitment and ability.

 

you can ABSOLUTELY measure a forwards contribution with goals and assists and keane hasn't contributed not nearly enough since being here. harse but that's how I see it.

[James Dean]

you can ABSOLUTELY measure a forwards contribution with goals and assists and keane hasn't contributed not nearly enough since being here. harse but that's how I see it.

 

I put the word "ONLY" in there for a reason though. I agree that he needs to score more goals, and given time I think he will. Class beeing permanent etc.

 

I just worry that replacing him with a player like Babel with disrupt the shape and form of the team as a whole.

[RedKnight]

His mentality reminds me of Heskey.

[James Dean]

His mentality reminds me of Heskey.

 

Agreed.

[wiiksie]

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Edited November 16, 2008 by wiiksie

[spider-neil]

His mentality reminds me of Heskey.

 

I disagree, if ever there was a big game player its babel. heskey was a bottler and hid when things got tough.

[Captain]

Seriously, wtf? Are we comparing Babel to Heskey now?

[drewy]

His mentality reminds me of Heskey.

 

Nahh he's more Collymore.

[dave u]

Don't think his attitude is anywhere near as bad as Collymore, and the Heskey comparison is unfair as well I think.

 

I think he lacks the single mindedness that can turn a player of his talent into one of the best in the world. Ronaldo is a twat, but if Babel had his confidence and absolute desire to be the best, then he'd be a world beater. Didn't he say something when he signed about football not actually meaning that much to him? He'd probably rather be a rapper or DJ. Really great players generally tend to live and breathe football, but Ryan doesn't.

 

My fear is that the Ryan Babel we see now is the same Ryan Babel we'll see when he's 25/26. I hope I'm wrong, but seriously, is he any better now than he was when he first came here? People are calling for him to start, but how many games has he started and actually looked really good in?

 

Rafa can't start him because he knows what he will get from him, and it's much less than what he would get from bringing him off the bench. And who getsleft out for him to start? People are saying Keane, but when everyone is fit he isn't guaranteed a start either.

[Thants]

He needs to go out on loan to a quality side.

[Juan Galonso]

Don't think his attitude is anywhere near as bad as Collymore, and the Heskey comparison is unfair as well I think.

 

I think he lacks the single mindedness that can turn a player of his talent into one of the best in the world. Ronaldo is a twat, but if Babel had his confidence and absolute desire to be the best, then he'd be a world beater. Didn't he say something when he signed about football not actually meaning that much to him? He'd probably rather be a rapper or DJ. Really great players generally tend to live and breathe football, but Ryan doesn't.

 

My fear is that the Ryan Babel we see now is the same Ryan Babel we'll see when he's 25/26. I hope I'm wrong, but seriously, is he any better now than he was when he first came here? People are calling for him to start, but how many games has he started and actually looked really good in?

 

Rafa can't start him because he knows what he will get from him, and it's much less than what he would get from bringing him off the bench. And who getsleft out for him to start? People are saying Keane, but when everyone is fit he isn't guaranteed a start either.

 

Another poor signing then to the collection. If Rafa knew about the players mentality before he signed him then that is a waste of 10.5 million quid but he has never had any money to spend has he? I remember reading Gerrards book and Gerrard said that Rafa bumped in to Gerrards mum on the way to Portugal in 04 when Rafa went out there to speak to Gerrard Owen and Carra about his plans and Houllier introuduced Rafa to Mrs Gerrard when they were all boarding a plane out there and one of the first things Rafa said to Gerrards mum was 'Does Steven like money'. It goes to beg the question now that surely Rafa when purchasing Babel must have known if he was a winner or not. Whether he had the ambition to become as good as he could possibly be.

[Kevin D]

Good for him. Given he's usually come across as aloof - and I'm putting it midly- it's nice to know he he's pissed off.

 

With good reason too in fairness. He's 21 and he's been the matchwinner against Arsenal and United. He's scored against Newcastle (a), won the Bolton game last year and even has a goal at Stamford Bridge.

 

While I may be undecided about him , there is certainly enough evidence to suggest we should be playing him much more as he could turn out to be an amazing player.

[RedKnight]

He's like Heskey because his attitude wavers depending on the opposition and the mood he's in. He has more ability and he's not a shithouse but I see shades of Heskey in him. I'd sell him if he doesn't start to do it on a more consistent basis, like Dave said, do we want a 25 year old Babel playing in exactly the same way as now.

[RedKnight]

Another poor signing then to the collection. If Rafa knew about the players mentality before he signed him then that is a waste of 10.5 million quid but he has never had any money to spend has he? I remember reading Gerrards book and Gerrard said that Rafa bumped in to Gerrards mum on the way to Portugal in 04 when Rafa went out there to speak to Gerrard Owen and Carra about his plans and Houllier introuduced Rafa to Mrs Gerrard when they were all boarding a plane out there and one of the first things Rafa said to Gerrards mum was 'Does Steven like money'. It goes to beg the question now that surely Rafa when purchasing Babel must have known if he was a winner or not. Whether he had the ambition to become as good as he could possibly be.

 

I think that's an unfair criticism, John. Babel could be brilliant, he's been brought to a huge club and it's only once he's here and playing, will we know if he's gonna be able to go that extra distance. It's like the Mancs buying Ronaldo, he was indifferent in his first few seasons but after that he developed that strong, arrogant, winning mentality and now he's a world beater. With some of these players there's a small degree of guesswork.

[redshoeshuffle]

I don't think it is right to sell players unless they have been given a proper run in the side regardless of form. Rafa has shown faith in the likes of Crouch, Kuyt and Keane when they have been off form and allowed them games to get on track so I see no reason why he won't do the same with Babel at some point.

[drewy]

Another poor signing then to the collection. If Rafa knew about the players mentality before he signed him then that is a waste of 10.5 million quid but he has never had any money to spend has he? I remember reading Gerrards book and Gerrard said that Rafa bumped in to Gerrards mum on the way to Portugal in 04 when Rafa went out there to speak to Gerrard Owen and Carra about his plans and Houllier introuduced Rafa to Mrs Gerrard when they were all boarding a plane out there and one of the first things Rafa said to Gerrards mum was 'Does Steven like money'. It goes to beg the question now that surely Rafa when purchasing Babel must have known if he was a winner or not. Whether he had the ambition to become as good as he could possibly be.

 

John isn't it getting a bit irrational at times mate?

 

For the record I was breaking Julian’s balls with my comparison to Collymore.

[Hooch]

I'd like to know exactly what he did in this Chelsea game?

Seems like it gets exagerated more and more every time someone talks about it, because I can't remember him doing anything special.

Apart from a "job" of putting himself about and stretching the defenders because we were defending a lead. I don't recall it being that impressive though.

[Juan Galonso]

I think that's an unfair criticism, John. Babel could be brilliant, he's been brought to a huge club and it's only once he's here and playing, will we know if he's gonna be able to go that extra distance. It's like the Mancs buying Ronaldo, he was indifferent in his first few seasons but after that he developed that strong, arrogant, winning mentality and now he's a world beater. With some of these players there's a small degree of guesswork.

 

I can understand your point mate and yes he could be brilliant but I don't think Rafa is the manager to nurture that out of him in the same way Ferguson did with Ronaldo. Babel comes across as though he needs the arm round the shoulder thing and Benitez isn't the type of manager to do that as as has been said quite a lot on here he treats his players like chess pieces rather than human beings.

 

When I said a poor signing I didn't mean due to a lack of ability I meant in the context of what the manager can get out of him. Ronaldo went in to a United side which had just sold one of its most creative players in years in Beckham, Ronaldo being a spotty braced teeth teenager at the time initially found it hard to live up to that but due to Ferguson carefully nurturing that talent which he had he has surpassed anything Beckham ever did for United. If Ronaldo had played under Rafa when he was 18 I don't think he would be the player he is at United with the opportunity to express himself a lot more than he would be able to here under our manager and that isn't a slant on Rafa before people jump on me for it I just mean it in a way that he has a different style of management to Ferguson.

[Kevin D]

I'd like to know exactly what he did in this Chelsea game?

Seems like it gets exagerated more and more every time someone talks about it, because I can't remember him doing anything special.

Apart from a "job" of putting himself about and stretching the defenders because we were defending a lead. I don't recall it being that impressive though.

 

If thats directed at me I was talking about his goal last season at Chelsea.

[05 Milan]

I've always been under the impression that it was Queerarse that nurtured Ronaldo and was the father-figure?

[spider-neil]

as far as I'm concerned asking someone to perform with fleeting appreances is much more difficult that asking someone to perform when they are played week in week out whether in good form or bad form.

 

ryan is brought on in the closing stages of matches when we are either chasing games or need something to happen in the game and that sort of enviroment isn't a good one for improvement.

[RedKnight]

I can understand your point mate and yes he could be brilliant but I don't think Rafa is the manager to nurture that out of him in the same way Ferguson did with Ronaldo. Babel comes across as though he needs the arm round the shoulder thing and Benitez isn't the type of manager to do that as as has been said quite a lot on here he treats his players like chess pieces rather than human beings.

 

When I said a poor signing I didn't mean due to a lack of ability I meant in the context of what the manager can get out of him. Ronaldo went in to a United side which had just sold one of its most creative players in years in Beckham, Ronaldo being a spotty braced teeth teenager at the time initially found it hard to live up to that but due to Ferguson carefully nurturing that talent which he had he has surpassed anything Beckham ever did for United. If Ronaldo had played under Rafa when he was 18 I don't think he would be the player he is at United with the opportunity to express himself a lot more than he would be able to here under our manager and that isn't a slant on Rafa before people jump on me for it I just mean it in a way that he has a different style of management to Ferguson.

 

I think that's right, and maybe Rafa isn't the man to bring the best out of Babel but I have a feeling that he was signed with that not being a consideration. I don't think Rafa thought that he shouldn't be signed because he may need active man-management, besides it would have been more of a problem with no assistant manager last season but with Sammy and Pellegrino now here, I would have thought they would have taken up that side of the management.

[Guest TK-421]

I hope I'm wrong, but seriously, is he any better now than he was when he first came here?

 

He hasn't improved enough in my opinion. The worst part of his game is his decision making and reluctance to release the ball at the right time. If he can improve on these aspects of his game then he has a better chance of making the grade.

 

He should not start up front instead of Keane. Keane is much more of a team player and will bring others into the game, at the moment Babel is more of an individual talent.

[spider-neil]

I'd like to know exactly what he did in this Chelsea game?

Seems like it gets exagerated more and more every time someone talks about it, because I can't remember him doing anything special.

Apart from a "job" of putting himself about and stretching the defenders because we were defending a lead. I don't recall it being that impressive though.

 

he used his strength and held the ball up agaisnt the (current) best defense in the league.

[spider-neil]

babel takes the ball more on the outside than he did when he first arrived so he is improving his weaker foot.