ACADEMY ARTICLE

[dave u]

To be honest I thought there wasn't much in it we haven't heard before on here, and it still doesn't explain why Rafa has been contacting young players urging them to join the academy.

 

I don't know why Rafa is getting all the blame, it seems to me that Parry is the problem.

 

I didn't put all the blame on Rafa, I said it was down to him and Parry. Parry has a lot to answer for, but he isn't the one filling the reserve squad with dross signed by Macia. I understand why Rafa is pissed off, but I can't condone what he has done in response to it.

 

Are you seriously, honestly telling me that Eccleston, Kacaniklic, Amoo, Pepper, Dalla Valle etc are not worth a place in that reserve squad, and that Flora, Mendy, Ayala, Simon etc are?

 

Also, the article was not a rant about Rafa not putting kids in the first team, but people keep trying to turn the argument into "Spearing and Darby not getting a chance". That wasn't what the piece was about, it was to do with the politics at the club, and about Rafa signing up so many kids and putting them into his 'Melwood Academy', meaning there's no room for any of the Academy players to get any chances to play in the reserves.

 

Every single player Macia has signed goes straight into the reserve squad at Melwood. Not one has had to go to the Academy first, regardless of age or ability. How do you think the players at the Academy feel about that, when they know they are better than some of these players, but because they were signed by Elias and not Macia, they don't et a chance.

 

There's other stuff that I would have liked to have put in that article but couldn't because it would have betrayed confidences. Some of it is pretty disturbing too. Maybe one day I'll be able to write it, but not now unfortunately.

 

I'm surprised at you Maldini, as you know more about young players than most and you must therefore know that a lot of the players in the reserve squad aren't as good as those at the Academy.

[dave u]

Where do Pacheco and Nemeth (When not injured) train ?

 

With Ablett's squad at Melwood.

 

El Zhar, N'Gog, Plessis and Insua train with the first team full time, all the others are with Ablett, although some get occasional call ups to train with the first team depending on circumstances.

[sh#t waffle]

Perhaps you should write a book Dave..

[Eiler]

Perhaps you should write a book Dave..

 

Good idea. Then we could all pre-order it.

[sh#t waffle]

Good idea. Then we could all pre-order it.

Yep, it's a fail safe business model alright.

[Sangria]

It is more than disturbing it is shocking using young players like pawns, it is sickening and I really do not give two flying fucks who is to blame, it needs sorting.

[Woo]

It is more than disturbing it is shocking using young players like pawns, it is sickening and I really do not give two flying fucks who is to blame, it needs sorting.

 

I move my Ecclestone to C5 and take your Brouwer. Checkmate!

[Sangria]

I move my Ecclestone to C5 and take your Brouwer. Checkmate!

 

He he you can have my Brouwer game over.

[redrosetints]

With Ablett's squad at Melwood.

 

El Zhar, N'Gog, Plessis and Insua train with the first team full time, all the others are with Ablett, although some get occasional call ups to train with the first team depending on circumstances.

 

I think I need to read the article, as I think there are distintions you know far more about than I do, between Melwood and the Academy. But it seems to me to be a regular issue, that players, whoever and wherever they are from (and I'm not differentiating between local lads like Spearo, brought in English lads like Amoo and brought in foriegn lads like Ayala) aren't coming through and taking up first team spots. And I just think that seems to be indicative of the way its done now. In the recent past, you'd trawl through local talent as the means of transport, finance etc wasnt there to look any further. Nowadays all the major clubs sign up young talent, and very little is home grown. Of course, we should still be taking each player on his merits and if a local lad is as good as another, he should get his chance but wherever they are from the stakes and finances are so high now that very few players come through a clubs academy system nowadays (a the big clubs) and make it into the first team. The youth of United, Chelsea and Arsenal is ALL foriegn or signed up from other academys at 16 or 17. Arsenal have the likes of Ramsey, Walcott and Denilson who are great young lads but not home grown. Im interested in Citehs much vaunted academy, as im sure that Abu Dhabi arenow in charge, those lads will have less and less chances.

 

But I guess id better toddle off and renew my subscription so I can read the article ! Did you ever look into doing a PDF online version for all your fans around the world Dave ?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

It was a great read, I don't know what to think, both parties are guilty and should take a look cv themselves but it riles me that parry is allowed to employ people who do not have the correct qualifications, and I'm dissapointed the potentially good young lads are suffering. I just want to clarify something about Nathan Ecclestone, was he let go by United's Academy? If so what were the reasons for them letting him go or am I thinking of somebody else?

[dave u]

It was a great read, I don't know what to think, both parties are guilty and should take a look cv themselves but it riles me that parry is allowed to employ people who do not have the correct qualifications, and I'm dissapointed the potentially good young lads are suffering. I just want to clarify something about Nathan Ecclestone, was he let go by United's Academy? If so what were the reasons for them letting him go or am I thinking of somebody else?

 

Eccleston has been here for years, although he is from Manchester. Don't know if he was ever at United.

 

Guthrie was let go by United when he was 15. I asked his dad about it and he said it was because he 'wasn't quick enough'. Heighway snapped him up and said something like 'the first couple of yards are in the head and you've got a good football brain'.

[dave u]

Did you ever look into doing a PDF online version for all your fans around the world Dave ?

 

Not really found a cost effective, suitable way of doing it yet.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Eccleston has been here for years, although he is from Manchester. Don't know if he was ever at United.

 

Guthrie was let go by United when he was 15. I asked his dad about it and he said it was because he 'wasn't quick enough'. Heighway snapped him up and said something like 'the first couple of yards are in the head and you've got a good football brain'.

 

Cheers Dave, knew Manchester was involved with him somewhere. Heighway is right too. You can run all day long but if you have no brain then you got no chance. Prime examples of players who have bags of space but no true footballing brain are Cisse and your man Baros *ducks for cover*

 

 

Sorry Dave.

[dave u]

Ah yes, Djibril Cisse and Milan Baros, 2005 European Champions. Who needs a brain when you've got CL winners medals!

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Ah yes, Djibril Cisse and Milan Baros, 2005 European Champions. Who needs a brain when you've got CL winners medals!

 

Ha ha good comeback. Might just rep you for that.

[dave u]

I think the politics are more of a threat to us long-term than any of the financial stuff.

 

Whatever you choose in terms of how you're going to run a club, you'll find the people working for you will disagree with your ideas in some way (unless they are 100% "Yes" men). So you have meetings, put each others' views forward, and at the end of all that you either all happily accept the decisions made, or you clear off.

 

Even if you're running a football club with no money, or huge debts, or a pile of gold coins under your main stand you still have to have everyone singing from the same lyric book.

 

We've no chance of that here now, and won't until at least one owner clears off.

 

Even a bad idea can work if everyone involved is trying to make it work - but at the minute we've got a mixture of good and bad ideas all trying to outdo each other, and let's face it: the academy/reserves is only a small part of the running of the club.

 

That's spot on. As I said in the piece, everyone in senior positions at the club has their own little feud with someone else. Rafa/Parry, Rafa/Hicks, Hicks/Gillett, Gillett/Rafa, Rafa/Hamberg, Parry/Ayre

 

None of them are on the same page.

[Catch22]

That's spot on. As I said in the piece, everyone in senior positions at the club has their own little feud with someone else. Rafa/Parry, Rafa/Hicks, Hicks/Gillett, Gillett/Rafa, Rafa/Hamberg, Parry/Ayre

 

None of them are on the same page.

 

 

That is down to the power vacuum at the top.

 

It almost invariably happens in any organisations with no leadership.. Roles/policies/methods for resolution of disputes aren't formally settled so everyone argues amongst themselves & factions develop.

[SpeedyG]

That is down to the power vacuum at the top.

 

It almost invariably happens in any organisations with no leadership.. Roles/policies/methods for resolution of disputes aren't formally settled so everyone argues amongst themselves & factions develop.

 

To be fair I think Rafa has the type of personality that can lead to this kind of thing happening. To me this is a textbook case of a high-achiever whose success is dependent on others who do not have a) the same desire to succeed, b) competency, c) commitment, d) accountability for their mistakes.

 

If I was Rafa and I'd been doing 16 hour days for 5 years and I had to put up with Parry pissing off transfer targets, leaving signings to the last minute, taking vacations during the transfer window, etc etc. I'd come to the conclusion that he wasn't part of the solution and find ways to succeed in his absence until leadership has the balls to address the root cause of the issue. Which is that only Rafa and Ayers seem to be set targets for which they can be held accountable.

[redrosetints]

That's spot on. As I said in the piece, everyone in senior positions at the club has their own little feud with someone else. Rafa/Parry, Rafa/Hicks, Hicks/Gillett, Gillett/Rafa, Rafa/Hamberg, Parry/Ayre

 

None of them are on the same page.

 

In an ideal world then, the manager should run it lock stock and barrel. Im sure Wenger does, as does fergie, or at least have 'their' men in charge.

[SpeedyG]

In an ideal world then, the manager should run it lock stock and barrel. Im sure Wenger does, as does fergie, or at least have 'their' men in charge.

 

Surely, that's too big a job for one man? And I think Rafa is far more hands-on than for example, Slur Alex who I understand hasn't been responsible for first team coaching for years and years

[Dave D]

To be fair I think Rafa has the type of personality that can lead to this kind of thing happening. To me this is a textbook case of a high-achiever whose success is dependent on others who do not have a) the same desire to succeed, b) competency, c) commitment, d) accountability for their mistakes.

 

If I was Rafa and I'd been doing 16 hour days for 5 years and I had to put up with Parry pissing off transfer targets, leaving signings to the last minute, taking vacations during the transfer window, etc etc. I'd come to the conclusion that he wasn't part of the solution and find ways to succeed in his absence until leadership has the balls to address the root cause of the issue. Which is that only Rafa and Ayers seem to be set targets for which they can be held accountable.

 

The real problem we have is that ALL the main people at the top involved in this mess look like they may walk out at any moment. If Parry and the yanks left tommorow I still think Rafa would act in exactly the same way once any new owners had settled in. Its just how he is. In many ways its why he's such a succesful manager, but it can be to his detriment and to the detriment of the club at times.

 

Focusing purely on the Academy, I just cannot see how the 1st team manager isnt fully up to speed and actively seen to be interested and involved.

 

Having said that, if when Rafa was offered the job it was made clear to him that the Academy and all its decision making is to be run and made by others than surely he's only doing as was agreed!

 

Just in his stubborn, bloody unhelpful Rafa way!

 

What the hell do other clubs do?

 

Its really staggering that we are even in a position to mount a proper challenge for the title given whats happening off field.

[Unrighteous]

If we had a strong owner/strong board, none of this would be a fucking issue because it would be sorted out.

[Dave D]

If we had a strong owner/strong board, none of this would be a fucking issue because it would be sorted out.

 

Fair comment. When I look at the premier league though, the only clubs that spring to mind with that set up are Villa and Boro.

 

The rest of the big4 all have boardroom issues. They just dont play them out on Sky Sports News

[Groan]

If we had a strong owner/strong board, none of this would be a fucking issue because it would be sorted out.

 

If we had an owner that cared none of this would be an issue. Cracking article by Dave though, and how the fuck does Parry justify giving his son a coaching role?

[SpeedyG]

The real problem we have is that ALL the main people at the top involved in this mess look like they may walk out at any moment. If Parry and the yanks left tommorow I still think Rafa would act in exactly the same way once any new owners had settled in. Its just how he is. In many ways its why he's such a succesful manager, but it can be to his detriment and to the detriment of the club at times.

 

Focusing purely on the Academy, I just cannot see how the 1st team manager isnt fully up to speed and actively seen to be interested and involved.

 

Having said that, if when Rafa was offered the job it was made clear to him that the Academy and all its decision making is to be run and made by others than surely he's only doing as was agreed!

 

Just in his stubborn, bloody unhelpful Rafa way!

 

What the hell do other clubs do?

 

Its really staggering that we are even in a position to mount a proper challenge for the title given whats happening off field.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't see the article about the academy, so don't know the exact dynamics causing the friction. But I know when Rafa first joined he outlined an over arching vision where, for example, Academy, Reserves and First team all played the same kind of football. As you say given Rafa's personality type, if he thinks that what's happening doesn't align with his vision, then he'll bang his head against the brick wall a couple of times and then out of sheer pragmatism decide that the academy is not a part of the solution and look elsewhere for his solutions. It's a very common personality type and behavior pattern in the US.

 

From the little bits and pieces I've read, it seems like Rafa truly thinks the academy is not working in his favor and if that is the case then as catch22 says, someone up top, needs to grow a set of balls and work out how to reach a compromise. It's not rocket science.

 

BTW I've considered the Rafa power freak thing, but I remember seeing a number of interviews with Ablett, where he basically said, Rafa told him he had to achieve xyz, do abc and then pretty much left him to it, offering occasional advice and having regular reviews. So it really does suggest to me that this is purely a political situation.

 

For those in the know, is Parry the cancer that could be cut-out, or has it spread to far that it would take more than that?