Lucas - the new scapegoat.

[Code]

I think you'll find that he did. Lots of it.

 

He was the player to cover most ground almost every game we played if I'm not much mistaken.

 

Action - Reaction.

 

Thats one of the main differences betwen Alonso and Lucas.

[Bjornebye]

He was the player to cover most ground almost every game we played if I'm not much mistaken.

 

Action - Reaction.

 

Thats one of the main differences betwen Alonso and Lucas.

 

I agree. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'm off for a cold shower. 

[stringvest]

Thats why he is the best. 

 

Like me saying i've got the biggest dick in my house. I live with 2 girls and a Rabbit. 

 

 

haha!  brilliant.

[stringvest]

He was the player to cover most ground almost every game we played if I'm not much mistaken.

 

Action - Reaction.

 

Thats one of the main differences betwen Alonso and Lucas.

yes he was - quite often over 13k.  Xabi and Gerrard covred more ground than anyone else in most games.  

 

Your action/reaction point is really important too.  With Lucas and Henderson, we have players whose natural mode of operation is 'passive'.  We will always need an influencer in the midfield.  

[Guest LFD]

Some people have their blue eyed loves Stig. Look at LFD with Enrique, look at Rafa fans, look at the Kuyt fans.

 

Still talking about me! haha

[Dracco]

That would be Ramsey who is regularly breaking into the penalty area to get on the end of moves and score, that Ramsey?  He's "holding" is he?

 It is not forbidden to holding midfielder to break forward. And Lucas is very very limited and always was. Slow as fuck, can not pass longer than for 10 yards, could not score to save his life, and his 2nd touch is usually forced to be a tackle....

 

As I wrote in other thread couple of days ago, his only positives were his engine and tackling. But now his engine somehow does not work, or it is because of his positioning, but he is often nowhere near the place where he should be...and his tackles are almost always fouls, and his speciality is to make this clumsy tackles around the penalty box.

 

Good lad, but has had only one good season and tat was 10/11, but even at that time I did not rate him.

[Code]

[Jairzinho]

I was wrong about Skrtel. I hope we fuck the shit cunt off.

[Pureblood]

In reply to Dracco.

 

I'm not sure why I am going to bother doing this but I'm going to forensically tear apart your post.  I know it won't change your mind in the slightest, nor the legions of assholes who agree with you such as the person who repped your post, but I'll do it anyway.

 

Let's start with the statement it's not forbidden for holding midfielders to break forward. Well, no shit!  Of course that's true, but they become more than a holding midfielder at this point. They become a midfielder with licence to break forward because their manager has told them this what they are entitled and expected to do at certain well timed points in the game.  Now it is almost blindingly obvious that Lucas does not have Rodgers' express authority to break forward and time late runs into the penalty area from a deep position, so, so obvious that I'm struggling to comprehend why I even have to point it out but there you go.  Lucas plays as a pure holding midfielder and must maintain his position almost at all times in order to maintain the balance of the side.  In exactly the same way that Claude Makelele did and Busquets does and all of the other purely holding midfielders in the game.  Very occasionally you will see Lucas collect a loose ball 25-30 yards out when we've piled men forward and have a long range shot. This is the only time when he's likely to score. Even  then he is more likely to spread it wide to maintain the attack because that is what he is told to do.  

 

Moving on to your assertion that he can't pass the ball more than 10 yards.  Astonishing accusation.  Where to begin?  Oh yeah, it's one of the stupidest things I've ever read on here.  I mean, what?  I think it was Thants who posted his stats from last season and the average length of his passes was something like 17 yards, more than 50% went forwards and 88% or thereabouts are completed. So in what sense can't he pass a ball more than 10 yards?  What are you talking about?  Why would Brazil call up a player who can't pass a football more than 10 yards?  Why would Liverpool FC managed by a man obsessed with the passing game pick a player who can't pass the ball more than 10 yards, further to that why would he then give him a new long term contract?   If Lucas was that shit he would be sold instantly.  

 

Next, you say he can't score.  He can and has scored.  I've explained above why he doesn't score often now.  Again, players such as Alonso, Busquets, Makelele (Chelsea's players went mental when he finally did score) and others "can't score".  Well actually they can and do sometimes, it's a ridiculous assertion, but they're your words.  All professional footballers can score worldies, even Djimi Traore.  Even Chris Marsden. It's a stupid criticism of a holding midfielder and misses the point so much that I actually pity you.

 

"His second touch is usually a tackle".  Oh come fucking on.  No, just no.

 

"His tackles are almost always fouls".  No they aren't, this is statistically proven to be beyond debate.  He wins most of them and it's one of the strongest parts of his game.  Please reassess your position on this point as you appear to be completely wrong, again.

 

"His engine does not work".  This is about the only remark close to being accurate.  I don't agree but I will concede that he looks to tire quicker than he used to.  In his defence this accusation can be leveled at other players in the team, including a few who have succumbed to injury (thankfully not Lucas himself).

 

I'm bored now and I'm sure everyone else is too.  

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

That picture is many a Welshmans dream.

[Code]

That picture is many a Welshmans dream.

'

At least Welsh, the welshest of them all.

[moof]

Fernando Duarte

 

Lucas Leiva was driving when his mobile suddenly started buzzing with an alarming frequency. With his wife expecting the couple's second child imminently, the Liverpool midfielder pulled over to see whether she had indeed gone into labour.

She had not. The messages flooding into his phone were from fellow professionals, friends and family, congratulating him on his return to the Brazil squad after a two-year absence. There had been times Lucas thought the moment would never come.

Lucas's Liverpool career has already included more highs and lows than most players experience in their whole careers. He arrived from Grêmio in 2007 but initially struggled and was booed by his own fans in a home game against Fulham the following year. Then came the haircut, the resurrection and, with that, the adulation. Then, finally and disruptively, came the injuries. In November 2011, at a time when he had more caps for Brazil than Neymar, he tore a cruciate ligament in a League Cup tie at Chelsea and missed the rest of that season.

Upon his return, in August last year, he tore a hamstring during the warm-up before a league game against the same opponents. Amazingly he still tried to play but lasted only five minutes before being replaced by Jonjo Shelvey. The injury left him depressed and fearing for his career. "I had to search really deep for some strength because there were a couple of days I could barely move and the doctors did not even allow me to hold my baby son," he says.

But it was also during that time that his fondness for his club, who face Newcastle United in Saturday's lunchtime kick-off, reached a new level. "The club was amazing to me, supporters met me on the street and told me that things were going to be OK. And all the support I received then is the reason why I don't really see myself playing for any other club if I have the choice. I'd love to have my testimonial at Anfield.

"I have played under four managers at Liverpool and I am grateful for everything they have taught me," he continues. "The thing with Brendan [Rodgers] is that he was here during the worst time of my career. His encouragement was crucial for me to come back from a bad place."

Rodgers was not the only person at the club who supported Lucas during those dark days. The England captain, Steven Gerrard, was another. "When I was injured he sat down to talk to me a couple of times and was very encouraging," Lucas says. "He is a vital player for this club. He is a legend at Liverpool and it is easy to see why he is also the England captain. He is also not as serious as people seem to think and I'm delighted to be playing alongside him."

Liverpool have had their best start to a season since 2008-09 and take on Newcastle second in the table, level on points with Arsenal at the top. Lucas is encouraged but not carried away. "Look, we have obviously got some encouraging results from the first games and no one will complain about being top of the table. But we would be silly to get too excited after seven games.

"The Premiership is a long and tough journey and we just have to look at our defeat [at home] to Southampton to see that. But I'll give you one thing: maybe we would have drawn that game against Stoke last season [they won 1-0 after a late penalty save by Simon Mignolet]. There's a feeling that a couple of things went our way [this time round]. But ask me again how I feel in January, because that's when we will really know what we can achieve this season."

A potential title charge has been mentioned but Lucas, for the time being, wants to focus on a place in the top four. "I don't see why we should get ahead of ourselves. The race for the top four will be extremely close this year and I still think we are underdogs, given how much money some of our opponents have invested. We also lost some important players like [Pepe Reina] and have already had injuries to players such as Philippe [Coutinho]."

Lucas's caution is down to having seen green shoots fade away before. He is now Liverpool's third-longest serving player behind Gerrard and Daniel Agger and when he arrived at the club they had just played in a second Champions League final in three seasons. Since 2009, Lucas and his team-mates' only experience of those European nights have come from the TV or game consoles. That hurts.

"Liverpool are still a massive institution in English and European football and we need to get back into the Champions League. Those nights are unforgettable for players and supporters. It's about time we all felt that buzz again," he says. Keeping Luis Suárez last summer was key for the club's ambitions and Lucas, who is a close friend of the Uruguayan, is understandably delighted that his team-mate stayed. "Luis is one hell of a player and I know him well enough to say that maybe he's competitiveness sometimes comes out too strong. But he's been one of the best players in the Premiership since he arrived, so it's great that he stayed with us."

It seems extraordinary that Lucas is still only 26. Brazilian journalists often joke that he has been a veteran since his youth academy days and there is some truth in that. When he signed for Liverpool he had just become the youngest ever winner of the Bola de Ouro, Brazil's version of the Ballon d'Or. His name pops up on a list alongside others such as Zico, Falcão and Ronaldinho. Back then, when Rafael Benítez paid £5m for Lucas, he was an attacking midfielder with an eye for goal.

In England, however, he was immediately switched to a more defensive role by Benítez as a way into the Liverpool team. "Well, Liverpool had Steven Gerrard and Xabi Alonso ahead of me in the pecking order. In football and in life you have to adapt to survive," he says.

Since then, the team have gone through a lot of changes, including the retirement of Jamie Carragher. By the time Carragher called it a day Lucas had developed a way to understand the defender's thick scouse accent and now enjoys watching his former team-mate working as a pundit on TV. "I think he's been very comfortable and funny. It didn't surprise me he could talk about the game, but he really adapted fast to it. It means we've got a good match for [his fellow Sky pundit] Gary Neville now."

The return to the Brazil squad for the matches against South Korea and Zambia last week was confirmation that Lucas has rediscovered some of his best form. Before the surprise call-up the Selecão coach, Luiz Felipe Scolari, checked with an old friend from his Stamford Bridge days as to whether the midfielder was ready to return. Rodgers, who worked with Scolari at Chelsea, told the Brazil manager that Lucas was ready. "The call-up came out of the blue," he says. "It's not that I had given up my dream to play in a World Cup at home for Brazil but it was just that time was running out, with every game I wasn't picked for."

Lucas flew back to England from Beijing on Wednesday having been praised in the Brazilian press for his performance against Zambia alongside his fellow Premiership players Paulinho, David Luiz and Ramires.

Scolari said he had played well and selecting the Liverpool player ahead of the success story of the recent Confederations Cup, Luiz Gustavo, was encouraging. "Lucas plays regularly in the Premiership and has been together with many of the Selecão players here," Scolari said. "He is tactically sound and his protection of the back four is very important in the kind of football I like my teams playing."

It sounds as if Lucas may well become the first Liverpool player to represent Brazil at a World Cup, which would be a truly special moment for the Leiva family as Lucas's uncle, João Leiva, was part of the Brazil 1974 squad which made it to the last four. "My grandma would be so proud," says Lucas. "It's not bad to have had a son and grandson playing in a World Cup."

Before that, the 22-times capped midfielder can achieve another milestone, to become the Brazilian with the most Premier League games to his name. He is currently 15 behind Gilberto Silva, who played 170 for Arsenal. "Yes, that would be nice but Gilberto won the league twice, didn't he?" Lucas says. "Much as I am honoured to have established myself in England, it's the trophies that will make people remember you."

[goose]

He divides opinions on the pitch but it's pretty hard not to like him off it.

[Jairzinho]

There is something seriously wrong with people that don't love him.

[kalasoma]

Wasn't there a problem with all players (not just Lucas) tiring around the 60 minute mark? So why is the team's general levels of fitness being used as a stick to beat Lucas with? I don't get why people are singling him out for the 'get rid' diatribe now when we're 7 games into the season?

 

Do people really enjoy using Lucas as a scapegoat? Seems like it's been going on for about 6 years now. At least, that's how long he's been playing for the club.

[aRdja]

There is something seriously wrong with people that don't love him.

He's not the typical english all-action midfielder. He'd be more highly rated if he played in Spain or Italy I'd imagine.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

He's not the typical english all-action midfielder. He'd be more highly rated if he played in Spain or Italy I'd imagine.

I don't think he would. There are fuck load of good players in the position in those countries.

[Jairzinho]

He's not the typical english all-action midfielder. He'd be more highly rated if he played in Spain or Italy I'd imagine.

 

Agreed, although he's quite rated now amongst fans of other English clubs.

[stringvest]

He's not the typical english all-action midfielder. He'd be more highly rated if he played in Spain or Italy I'd imagine.

You're an idiot. It's not that people don't get what he's there to do, it's that people don't think he's very good at that role.

It would be the same in Spain or Italy.

 

[kalasoma]

You're an idiot. It's not that people don't get what he's there to do, it's that people don't think he's very good at that role.

It would be the same in Spain or Italy.

 

Except that he would be good at what he does in Spain and Italy, but not appreciated for being very good at what he does here, in England, by his own fans. I think that would be the difference.

[moof]

Missed him today. Especially in the first half

[stringvest]

Except that he would be good at what he does in Spain and Italy, but not appreciated for being very good at what he does here, in England, by his own fans. I think that would be the difference.

No, he would be average at what he does in Spain and Italy as well. So, you would get fans who overestimate his contribution because he seems like a lovely guy, and those who would see him for what he is.

 

[RedKnight]

Missed him today. Maybe it's the formation or just the general lethargy that we played with but Henderson just couldn't get the defensive side done today. I thought he'd be a top dog there too but he doesn't have the anticipation that you need.

[moof]

No, he would be average at what he does in Spain and Italy as well. So, you would get fans who overestimate his contribution because he seems like a lovely guy, and those who would see him for what he is.

He's not average. Average is Tiote or Cattermole or Parker. Lucas is one of the best in Europe at what he does.

[stringvest]

That's your opinion moof, and you're welcome to it