Dubai and Liverpool FC

[Carra_is_legend]

They'll want Luxury boxes. They will want the development to be grand.

 

They are Dubai.

 

We will see about that won't we? The grass on their side is greener now but we will have to see if it stays green.

 

Bottom line is we will be at the mercy of a foreigner for the foreseeable future and that alone makes me sad.

[WaltonRed]

They are Dubai.

 

So why the fuck are they haggling with the cranks then?

[Royal Family]

We will see about that won't we? The grass on their side is greener now but we will have to see if it stays green.

 

Bottom line is we will be at the mercy of a foreigner for the foreseeable future and that alone makes me sad.

 

Well, if the alternative is a "local" like David Moores, I'd take the foreign option every time!

[Barrington Womble]

Barry, I love the positivity and can do attitude and maybe im just becoming old and cynical, but on what financial basis do you make that claim ? If RBS can get 30m a year in interest on a company that is solvent and has huge assests, why not refinance the loan ? Im not mocking you or anything, I just don't see on what basis you can make that claim other than allowing your passion for us and sterngth of feeling take over, ie your heart is ruling your head if you think RBS are intersted in tossing of a 350m loan for the sake of some closed current accounts and loans. We need to be realistic. If the Sun can continue operating with a boycott from Liverpool fans what chance bringing down a bank of that size ?

 

I hope Im completley wrong, but while I appluad all attempts to do something, I really dont see the value unless its actually going to do something.

 

OK - the 1st thing you have to reemember is it's not quite as simple of "if we loan twit and twat £350m, we get £30m in interest". If it was that simple banks all over the globe would be falling over themselves to loan them the money an they are not, only RBS are. The 1st question RBS ask, is "if we loan these 2 £350m, will we get it back?". Now at the moment it seems RBS are the only bank on the planet who are confident that these two can make the payments. They mitigate that risk by charging interest at a higher rate than normal. That was a decision RBS made 9 months ago. In that 9 months, RBS's position is weaker, they have made losses like never before. Their partner on the deal Wachovia are on the brink of bankrupcy. Fi8nally and most importantly, G&H no longer have the same assets as they had 12 months ago - so if LFC fail to make the profit to pass to Kop Football, how do G&H meet the repayments. With us doing nothing, this deal is very fucking far from certain. We don't need to hit RBS with a loss of £30m, we just need to hit RBS with enough of a loss or disruption to their business that instead of saying "well to loan to them we charge stupid percent" they just decide there is too much of a risk to loan to them.

 

Remember G&H are very far from certain to get this money without us getting involved. Remember RBS is not just RBS - it's the Natwest too, as well as many other brands to their business. As someone mentioned on this thread earlier, imagine we have a concerted campaign for one week of LFC fans booking appointments in branches or RBS and Natwest up and down the country seeking new accounts, new mortgages, insurace schemes with no intention of buying anything from them. We tie up all their sales staff for a week. In that time they sell nothing - we don't even have to take away our business from them, we just stop them generating new business. Role that on to sending their customer services emails and letters, all that will need to be replied to and use up valuable resources that should be getting used on their own customers. Imagine running a demo/picket outside key branches - pissing off regular customers, perhaps even making them consider moving banks. All of these things can cause disruption and hassle and that's just what I'm thinking of off the top of my head now. We can do this - but it needs all of us to get stuck in and do it. We have hundreds of thousands of fans up and down the country, we need to get as many as possible on board to win this battle.

[spider-neil]

the one thing that gives me hope is there has been no obligatory hicks denial.

[Barrington Womble]

The Carlsberg thing can all be done on the net though, and is a different kettle of fish all together really. A few angry e-mails here and there, some out rage etc. This requires actual action though, angry e-mails won't do. People will put some good ideas forward on Saturday hopefully.

 

 

It wasn't just that. SoS got Parry to put pressure on Carlsberg over this. They had been in contact with the echo to run a campaign over the Mathew Street festival to get all the local pubs to put up signs saying "Carlsberg/Sun vouchers will not be taken". That organised approach made Carlsberg realise this could be far more than just a few emails. The strength, organisation and voice of the union made a difference then and it can do it now.

[spider-neil]

I can only assume banks aren't stupid.

the banks in this country will surely have observed there is a new player on the block and there is a real competitior for CL league places, without which no way on this earth can liverpool make repayments. if they give the yanks an extention of 6 months past jan they are mad.

[WaltonRed]

It wasn't just that. SoS got Parry to put pressure on Carlsberg over this. They had been in contact with the echo to run a campaign over the Mathew Street festival to get all the local pubs to put up signs saying "Carlsberg/Sun vouchers will not be taken". That organised approach made Carlsberg realise this could be far more than just a few emails. The strength, organisation and voice of the union made a difference then and it can do it now.

 

I didnt know that Barry, thats awesome stuff.

[bonzo]

Just checked the Share Liverpool website - they say that 'nearly 40,000' fans have registered their interest so far, out of 100,000 needed to launch a bid.

 

Suggests to me that the interest is there, and it could work...

 

...in theory anyway, but I don't think that it's realistic to think it'll happen in practice as the Dubai guys can move so much quicker and it looks like the cowboys are going to be tarred and feathered and run out of town sooner rather than later*. A DIC in the hand is worth two in the bush and all that.

 

If the project could only have got going a few years ago, while Moores was still in charge, it might have had a realistic chance - he'd have jumped at an offer like that, especially if the pot was sweetened for him a bit.

 

But then again it has taken the cowboys to show a lot of fans just how bad things can get with the wrong owners.

 

Having said all that, I've signed myself up and it's one £5,000 I would love to have to part with some day.

 

 

*please fucking Jesus

[WaltonRed]

Share Liverpool has no chance of happening, their only hope is that Dubai buy us and give a group a say in the running of the club.

[Red Phoenix]

If the project could only have got going a few years ago, while Moores was still in charge, it might have had a realistic chance - he'd have jumped at an offer like that, especially if the pot was sweetened for him a bit.

 

Yeah...that makes me wonder how much it was 'sweetened' when H&G came in...

 

But then again it has taken the cowboys to show a lot of fans just how bad things can get with the wrong owners.

 

That could be one of their excuses if/when they do finally leave.

 

"We were just trying to highlight the dangers! Honest!"

[bonzo]

That could be one of their excuses if/when they do finally leave.

 

"We were just trying to highlight the dangers! Honest!"

I like it, though I doubt they'll be making many excuses as they'll be too busy counting their money. And they're cunts.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Share Liverpool has no chance of happening, their only hope is that Dubai buy us and give a group a say in the running of the club.

 

Absolutely correct. Barmpot scheme.

[Barrington Womble]

Absolutely correct. Barmpot scheme.

 

I actually think if they hadn't set this 5k limit they'd have had a real chance. There are people out there (such as Miskelly) who would perhaps be willing to put 10's of millions in - but you couldn't seriously expect him to then have the same voice as someone who puts in 5k. If they took away that limit, getting to the required £500m may not be so tough.

[Dublin Red]

A friend of mine (another LFC fan) sent me this. Don't know what site he got it from or if its true but it's allegedlt a reply from Oliver Kay to some guy who questioned his article in The Times the other day regarding Dubai :

 

 

Thanks for your e-mail. I detected a note of frustration in what you wrote

and I can understand that. Almost a year after the Dubai link resurfaced, you

are clearly looking for hard evidence that something has changed, rather than

a reporter simply saying that things are (or appear to be) changing. I

understand why you may feel that you are reading the same old things over and again and that nothing ever changes.

 

BUT ... things are changing. I have it on very good authority (or

authorities) that Hicks and Gillett are reaching or, in one case, have

reached the point where they know they can't take LFC forward. I know that

their financial positions are increasingly parlous, I know that they are

coming under growing pressure from the banks and I also now know that they

are genuinely unnerved by developments at Manchester City, which is something I merely hinted at yesterday.

 

Am I in a position to say exactly how this will play out? No. Am I able to

say what their next move will be? No. Am I willing to name my sources?

Absolutely not, sorry. The Arabs haven't spoken for months; it is not their

style. We haven't heard a peep out of the Americans for months, but,

significantly, we did not even get the usual and expected Hicks denial today.

As for Staveley, she does not talk to the media -- or so I thought until I

heard that she had been on BBC radio last night confirming that talks are

ongoing etc and that Dubai remain interested "at the right price".

 

I really can understand you becoming cynical about this takeover saga,

particularly after things happened so quickly at Manchester City, but

everything I am hearing on this points to Hicks and Gillett reaching breaking

point in the coming months (before that January 25 deadline) and selling to

Dubai. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I hope I've answered most of your

questions and allayed your suspicions that I was merely fantasising ...

 

All the best -- and fingers crossed it will get sorted out quickly because,

believe me, I'm as sick of this as you are ..."

 

Oli

[Red Phoenix]

A friend of mine (another LFC fan) sent me this. Don't know what site he got it from or if its true but it's allegedlt a reply from Oliver Kay to some guy who questioned his article in The Times the other day regarding Dubai :

 

 

Thanks for your e-mail. I detected a note of frustration in what you wrote

and I can understand that. Almost a year after the Dubai link resurfaced, you

are clearly looking for hard evidence that something has changed, rather than

a reporter simply saying that things are (or appear to be) changing. I

understand why you may feel that you are reading the same old things over and again and that nothing ever changes.

 

BUT ... things are changing. I have it on very good authority (or

authorities) that Hicks and Gillett are reaching or, in one case, have

reached the point where they know they can't take LFC forward. I know that

their financial positions are increasingly parlous, I know that they are

coming under growing pressure from the banks and I also now know that they

are genuinely unnerved by developments at Manchester City, which is something I merely hinted at yesterday.

 

Am I in a position to say exactly how this will play out? No. Am I able to

say what their next move will be? No. Am I willing to name my sources?

Absolutely not, sorry. The Arabs haven't spoken for months; it is not their

style. We haven't heard a peep out of the Americans for months, but,

significantly, we did not even get the usual and expected Hicks denial today.

As for Staveley, she does not talk to the media -- or so I thought until I

heard that she had been on BBC radio last night confirming that talks are

ongoing etc and that Dubai remain interested "at the right price".

 

I really can understand you becoming cynical about this takeover saga,

particularly after things happened so quickly at Manchester City, but

everything I am hearing on this points to Hicks and Gillett reaching breaking

point in the coming months (before that January 25 deadline) and selling to

Dubai. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I hope I've answered most of your

questions and allayed your suspicions that I was merely fantasising ...

 

All the best -- and fingers crossed it will get sorted out quickly because,

believe me, I'm as sick of this as you are ..."

 

Oli

 

Yeah, it's from a few pages back in this thread.

[Dublin Red]

Yeah, it's from a few pages back in this thread.

 

 

D'OH !! :wallbutt:

[Dan Vito Corleone]

And begging to be saved by yet more people who have never set foot in Liverpool or shown any previous interest in football is what?

 

A damned sight more reassuring than being owned by people who simply cannot afford to run a football club, though I get what you're saying.

 

ShareLFC might well be able to accrue the monies required to buy the club. But then what? How will they pay wages? How will they find the money to pay transfer fees, which are likely to be exorbitent? How will it be better than the Americans if the President they appoint doesn't like a signing and vetos a transfer?

 

As far as I am concerned ShareLFC have posed more questions than they have answered. Until I see some real evidence on how they intend to pay for the running of the club its a silly, silly idea with a notorious balloonhead with his head in the clouds.

 

DIC aren't the be all and end all of saving LFC - but at least they are business people who know how to make money. Rogan Taylor does not strike me as that sort of man.

[stringvest]

DIC aren't the be all and end all of saving LFC - but at least they are business people who know how to make money. Rogan Taylor does not strike me as that sort of man.

 

There's the rub. Even if this scheme did take off, the reality of the situation is that it could only succeed if it was fronted and guaranteed by the sort of people who would be taken seriously in the world of finance and business; i.e. very successful business people, with strong reputations and the sort of clout that would enable the club to borrow against future earnings, because that's the only way the club would be able to buy new players. Those people would not taken Rogan Taylor seriously at all. He would be brushed aside in double quick time and the LFC business would be run by hard-headed businessmen.

 

In much the same way as it would be by Dubai, except with a lot less money.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

And begging to be saved by yet more people who have never set foot in Liverpool or shown any previous interest in football is what?

 

Very good point, but can I offer you this in exchange

 

This is only how it has been explained to me, so, if i'm not 100% correct when it comes to pass, don't hang me.

 

If/when Dubai gain full control of the club, there will be an executive consisting of no more than a handful people.

 

Underneath that there will be a much larger non-executive, comprising of some absolutely fucking superb people, some of them non-football people, who are leaders in their own fields, whether it be marketing, customer service, estate management, legal. They are all from the very top of the tree.

 

There will also be alot of "football" people involved in the non-executive, people that wouldn't want to know if it wasn't right for the club, who don't really need the money and are interested only in making sure Liverpool are in a position to win trophies.

 

Also, from what I've been told, unlike the Man City deal, the actual input from Dubai in running the club will be minimal, only probably taking 1 board position, maybe even at a non-executive level.

 

Now, this all may well be a very well constructed fairy story about what was going to happen, but I've also been told a few of the names involved (Both football and non-football) and not only did I check them out (They all ring true in regards what I was told about them) I was left staggered with a few of the names who are willing to get involved in the deal.

 

So in regards to LFC becoming some billionaire plaything/circus for someone who's never set foot in anfield, I would ask to consider the above.

 

I am also very aware of the fact we need to treat anyone coming in with a great degree of caution, not just initially, but right throughout their ownership.

 

 

And no, I cannot put any names forward, nor will I.

[spider-neil]

if the fans DID by some miracle purchase the club how would they fund future player purchases and how would they build the stadium?

[Section_31]

But do you want someone with "sound business sense", or someone who's going to come in and spend billions on the same kind of players Chelsea and now Man City go in for? Because they're not the same thing at all.

 

If it's the latter, then fine, it's Dubai all the way - if it's genuinely the former, then why does that involve becoming another bauble for some passing Sheikh?

 

On the face of it, I don't disagree with what you're saying - but I'm not sure too many of those creaming themselves over DIC's latest incarnation really want 'safe financial hands' at all. They want a sugar daddy.

 

 

Fair points.

 

What I want personally is for the club to have its full potential unleashed.

 

It's one of the biggest clubs in the world, with an international fanbase and a peerless history and standing in the game, and yet it doesn't even have footy shirts stocked in its club shops sometimes.

 

I'd like an owner who will give us the finance to stand toe to toe with at least the mancs and arsenal, and get the ground started.

 

But more than that I want someone who knows how to run a business, with the expertese to take advantage of everything off the pitch that it's got going for it, and then down the line - even if said owner fucks off - the club will at least have been brought kicking and screaming into the 21st Century from a business and marketing standpoint.

[Carra_is_legend]

if the fans DID by some miracle purchase the club how would they fund future player purchases and how would they build the stadium?

 

The player purchases would be funded like any other club (apart from Chelsea and City ofcourse). It will be based purely on our income.

 

The stadium will be built using loans ofcourse. It will pay for itself over a period of time.

 

I'm not saying ShareLFC is the way to go but this is how they will operate I guess.

[Red Nick]

if the fans DID by some miracle purchase the club how would they fund future player purchases and how would they build the stadium?

 

Exactly and committees never work there has to be one CEO to make all the decisions.

[Carra_is_legend]

Exactly and committees never work there has to be one CEO to make all the decisions.

 

Who said there won't be? There will be a president (or a CEO) who will make the decisions - like who to appoint as manager, who to get as Director of Football etc. He will get paid just like Rick Parry is now.

 

The fans (ie., who contributed £5k) can vote on who will be the president/CEO and that person will be in the post for a number of years before another election is held.