EDUARDO MACIA: "It's all about the right mentality"

[Rashid]

Rafa is a world class coach, one that specialises in organisation and tactical defending. he isn't very good though at building teams, as his constant tinkering and selling of players he bought himself shows.

[Kevin D]

I'm suprised that you've mentioned Zidane and Henry as players without the right mentality. They are the kind of players that come into work everyday to improve and be the best - they challenge themsleves in every sense of the word.

 

Joe Cole has improved (but he's nowhere near as good as some people make out). Someone of his technical abilty should be able to dominate entire games on a consistent basis - he never has. I also feel his new found work ethic came as a result of being at Chelsea, where you could be replaced at the drop of a hat by another £30m player waiting in the wings if you didn't do what the manager said.

 

Thats not what I said. Maldini said Ginola was not world class because he needed a system to be set-up for them and could not fit into a team structure. I disagreed because many a world class player has the team set-up to their strengths and are accomadated. Henry at arsenal and Zidane at both France and Madrid are examples. Owen at Liverpool ,too.

 

I believe J.Cole's ethic has improved because he's worked with the top man manager in the world , he's proof that a player can have mentality instilled into which is something , another poster suggested could not be done.

[Kevin D]

Fucking hell Rashid , surely you know whats you've just started.

[Rashid]

Debate is debate mate, and what I said is true otherwise why do we sell 10 and buy 10 each summer? There doesn't seem to be a squad building plan in place, just a revolving door.

[StevieH]

Rashid - Rafa is building an excellent squad at Liverpool. He inherited an extremely poor side when he took over from Houllier & the personnel that we now have at all levels is much improved.

[Rashid]

Rashid - Rafa is building an excellent squad at Liverpool. He inherited an extremely poor side when he took over from Houllier & the personnel that we now have at all levels is much improved.

 

Ironically, the "poor squad" has won more than the "excellent squad".

[StevieH]

Rashid, lets wait and see how this season pans out before we put the knife in. Rafa has done a very good job since taking over, but we have to see a significant improvement in league form this season.

[Maldini]

Are you familar with Zidane and Henry because thats applicable to both of them in my opinion.

 

Somebody said mentality cannot be coached and I disagree with that. Anyone who's watched the tranformation of J.Cole under Mourinho will know that. Anyone who watched J.Barnes will also know that because when he arrived I can assure you he was a compleltly different player. In fact I bet two/three years ago everyone would have claimed that Ronaldo lacks mentality

 

This debate was going well I thought. However like most threads , agendas and personal dislike of people is stopping anything being discussed. The abuse is starting to cloud anything being discussed on this forum and its tedious as fuck. The personal assault a few posts up is shocking and adds nothing to the thread.

 

Seriously , whats the fucking point?

 

Zidane played left midfield for Madrid because that's the only place he could fit into their system. The ball may have gone trough him every time, but they weren't set up to suit him by any means. He could have played in any system for any team. You can't say that about Quaresma or Ginola, comparing him to them is ridiculous.

 

Arsenal weren't set up to suit Henry either, they still play exactly the same way now as they did then

[Monkeywool]

What's this revolving door?

 

Players signed and sold on by Rafa

 

Nunez - part of an exchange, had nothing to lose sold for a profit

Gonzales - cheap as chips, didn't settle, sold for a profit

Morientes - Didn't work out as couldn't adapt, sold on

Garcia - Good signing, did some good stuff, did some not so good stuff, wanted to go home - sold on

Pelligrino - signed for nothing, to help bed in zonal marking, left for nothing.

Paletta - signed for little, wanted more football, sold on for profit

Barragan - see paletta

Sissoko - wanted first team football, didn't like rotation - sold on for profit.

Itandje - signed as sub keeper, was shit, sold on

Carson - see Itandje

Crouch - wanted more first team football - sold on at profit

 

Players signed and kept by rafa

 

Reina

Arbeloa

Aurelio

Agger

Skrtel

Pennant

Yossi

Mascher

Alonso (so far)

Babel

Torres

Kuyt

Lucas

Voronin

 

As you can see, he hardly has a revolving door policy, most of the players left because they wanted to be more active in the first team, or couldn't cope with the rotation system. How is a manager expected to keep players on who want to play more for the first team when he patently can't guarantee it. Yes, he has made one or two signings which were shown the door because they were not as good as he wanted, but they were cheap signings anyway and in no way a risk. Surely people would rather this than, say, spunking 28m on I don't know, Veron?

 

If any are missing on there it is because I have forgotten them

[Rashid]

The list is a bit different to the one you suggest.

 

Definite brought and solds.

 

Josemi*Rey

Antonio*Nunez

Luis*Garcia

Mauricio*Pellegrino

Fernando*Morientes

Scott*Carson

Antonio*Barragan

Boudewijn*Zenden

Mohamed*Sissoko

Peter*Crouch

Mark*Gonzalez

Jan*Kromkamp

Robbie*Fowler

Craig*Bellamy

Gabriel*Paletta

Charles*Itandje

 

Probables by the end of this summer.

 

Xabi Alonso

Andriy Voronin

Jermaine Pennant

 

So not only has he bought 20 odd first team players he himself has deemed not good enough to stay long term.... and that doesn't include players who are never going to be good enough like Leto and others who "'may' be sold like Arbeloa.

 

Then there are the 2000 kids.

[hamstrung]

I'd say he's built a rollicking good team if you look what was at his disposal in 2004

 

I couldn't care less about turnover of players. He hasn't made any massive mistakes, and the squad is evolving and improving year on year.

[billybonzo]

The major difference is that our turds are now flushable whereas Ged's weren't, is that simple enough for the classroom idiot to understand ?

[Rashid]

Flushable or not, having a revolving door of players means players are always getting used to new ones and that's been the theme every year he has been here.

[hamstrung]

I really don't see what the problem is? He buys a player, it doesn't work, so he gets rid. Shit happens.

 

The ones we've kept, by and large, have been excellent and an improvement on what came before.

 

Still, any excuse.

[StevieH]

Houllier and Benitez both made mistakes in the transfer market, but the difference is that Rafa has moved poor players on asap whereas Houllier kept persisting with mediocre players when it was blatantly obvious that they weren't upto it.

[Rashid]

I really don't see what the problem is? He buys a player, it doesn't work, so he gets rid. Shit happens.

 

The ones we've kept, by and large, have been excellent and an improvement on what came before.

 

Still, any excuse.

 

You don't understand the concept of squad unity and consistency breeding more togetherness and understanding on the pitch?

 

This August we will probably have Degen, Dossenna, Skrtel (to an extent as he is still new), Barry and Keane (half the first team) getting used to eachother.

[hamstrung]

I think our squad is "unified" and the players he has got shot of, he has got shot of because they weren't playing a bit part, so I don't think understanding on the pitch is a problem.

 

I can see a point about bring in new players and getting them integrated quickly but I don't think its a big issue really.

[Rashid]

Houllier and Benitez both made mistakes in the transfer market, but the difference is that Rafa has moved poor players on asap whereas Houllier kept persisting with mediocre players when it was blatantly obvious that they weren't upto it.

 

It isn't about the fantastic way he has recouped money, it's about signing players who were not good enough to begin with and having to sell in the end anyway usually replaced by someone similiar - which means we change players every year but not results.

[Rashid]

I think our squad is "unified" and the players he has got shot of, he has got shot of because they weren't playing, so I don't think understanding on the pitch has been affected.

 

Mate, we will have about 5 or 6 NEW first team starters this August, do you think they will hit the ground running? It's a familiar theme every year and we always end up suffering for it.

 

I'd have preferred to sign two world class players and left it at that - even if it is just an Alves and Keane.

[hamstrung]

I am not your mate.

 

You are making an issue out of something fairly trivial. Of the players we have signed so far, only Dossena and Keane will be first 11 players immediately I would think.

[Rashid]

I am not your mate.

 

I think that's obvious isn't it?

 

I always address cunts in that way. ie listen mate... etc.. get it?

[hamstrung]

For someone who complains about personal abuse, you're very keen to dish it out.

[Rashid]

There was no need for the "I am not your mate" tirade.

[hamstrung]

You need to look up the word tirade.

[Monkeywool]

I knew I forgot some big ones.

 

Most of those players didn't leave because they weren't good enough, as I pointed out, most left because they wanted more football than Rafa could give them, most of them also were sold for a nice profit too.