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The government in SA have not long put in place a law which is making financial institutions take some responsibility. In a nutshell if somebody defaults on a loan or mortgage and it is found that the lending institute were irresponsible in authorising the loan because the person was already in too much debt - then the lending institute face large fines and the debt in some cases may be written off. In fact it is now illegal in SA for a bank to make an unauthorised offer of a loan.

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I'm staggered as to how imprudent the banks have been: offering £250K mortgages to couples on £15-18K salaries. Fuckin' madness. But hey! their sales were up and they hit their targets! the banking business has gone tits-up since they started employing glorified check-out boys as branch managers, simply because they could sell more money to needy credit-junkies. It's a sham, and Gordon Brown is now spuffing billions of taxpayers money to keep it going. Grr!

 

I was chatting to some bird a while back who worked for Co-Op bank in Manc (co-op!) and she had something called elastic targets, which meant that if she 'sold' 20 credit cards and 10 loans in one month, the next month she'd have to sell 25 credit cards and 15 loans and so on and so on.

 

under those kinds of preassures no wonder rules have been broken and credit has gone to people who just aren't capable of managing it.

 

Credit should only be there when it's asked for and when the person asking for it can prove they can handle it, it shouldn't be pushed on people under pain of death for the salesman.

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These people have only got themselves to blame. How dare they work their bollocks off to provide a better standard of living for their families; only to complain when they're looking to lose all they've toiled for. It's their own fault for having been able to afford nice things in the first place.

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These people have only got themselves to blame. How dare they work their bollocks off to provide a better standard of living for their families; only to complain when they're looking to lose all they've toiled for. It's their own fault for having been able to afford nice things in the first place.

 

That isn't what people are saying, Liz. It's when people who work their bollocks off can afford things in the X bracket but choose to buy things in the Y and Z brackets which are beyond their means.

 

I can afford Asda beans, so I don't buy Sainsbury's beans.

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That isn't what people are saying, Liz. It's when people who work their bollocks off can afford things in the X bracket but choose to buy things in the Y and Z brackets which are beyond their means.

 

I can afford Asda beans, so I don't buy Sainsbury's beans.

 

So the only people who are feeling the pinch of rising fuel and food prices are those who've lived beyond their means? What about when people who've worked their bollocks off previously could afford things in the X bracket but now can't?

 

"Can't afford to put petrol in your car? Quit whining, it's your own fault for having a car. There are people worse off" seems to be the view on here.

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So the only people who are feeling the pinch of rising fuel and food prices are those who've lived beyond their means? What about when people who've worked their bollocks off previously could afford things in the X bracket but now can't?

 

 

Then unfortunately they have to buy Netto beans! We're all getting fucked up the arse to some extent by this, but surely you see the irony in that article that was quoted earlier in the thread: Bringing home £1500 a month, £400k house, £90k on a bathroom and kitchen, kids in private school, Beemer etc.

 

Nobody deserves what is going to happen as a result of any forthcoming recession, but the people in situations such as the one that you describe have a hell of a lot more right to complain than somebody who bought a mansion on a £12k salary and a wardrobe of clobber from the Meff Quarter on credit cards just to keep up with the Joneses.

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Then unfortunately they have to buy Netto beans! We're all getting fucked up the arse to some extent by this, but surely you see the irony in that article that was quoted earlier in the thread: Bringing home £1500 a month, £400k house, £90k on a bathroom and kitchen, kids in private school, Beemer etc.

 

Nobody deserves what is going to happen as a result of any forthcoming recession, but the people in situations such as the one that you describe have a hell of a lot more right to complain than somebody who bought a mansion on a £12k salary and a wardrobe of clobber from the Meff Quarter on credit cards just to keep up with the Joneses.

 

It still reeks of jealousy to me.

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It still reeks of jealousy to me.

 

Not to me it doesn't. Maybe there is an element of jealousy in some people's arguments, but not mine. I'm not prepared to listen to people complaining about losing an inch when others stand to lose a yard and are not complaining.

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Not to me it doesn't. Maybe there is an element of jealousy in some people's arguments, but not mine. I'm not prepared to listen to people complaining about losing an inch when others stand to lose a yard and are not complaining.

 

I think you'll find it's the other way round. Those with a lot have far more to lose. Imagine a middle class family who can no longer afford fees for their child's education having to remove their child from a school where they're settled, happy and surrounded by their friends and putting them in the local sink Comp. Are you to say those kids aren't to be pitied because there are kids out there with fuck all? It's still a horrible situation and there are people on here who would do well to learn a bit of compassion.

 

It's like saying that people below the breadline this country have no right to complain because there are people starving to death in Sudan. Going by that theory, nobody should ever have the right to feel aggrieved about anything, ever.

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I think you'll find it's the other way round. Those with a lot have far more to lose. Imagine a middle class family who can no longer afford fees for their child's education having to remove their child from a school where they're settled, happy and surrounded by their friends and putting them in the local sink Comp. Are you to say those kids aren't to be pitied because there are kids out there with fuck all? It's still a horrible situation and there are people on here who would do well to learn a bit of compassion.

 

It's like saying that people below the breadline this country have no right to complain because there are people starving to death in Sudan. Going by that theory, nobody should ever have the right to feel aggrieved about anything, ever.

 

I've already said that everybody is being affected by this. I'm not saying that I have no sympathy for those who can afford to put their kids through private education etc. but I reserve the bulk of it for the single mum who gets laid off who already busts her gut to live on the very sink estate that the middle class family you describe would have to move to.

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this is about that squash racquet isn't it?

 

It was a tennis racquet. and no it isn't. I don't disagree completely with Alan, all I'm trying to get across is that the stress of potentially losing your home is just as great if your house is worth 400K or 100K.

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It was a tennis racquet. and no it isn't. I don't disagree completely with Alan, all I'm trying to get across is that the stress of potentially losing your home is just as great if your house is worth 400K or 100K.

 

It is, its just that you make as many sacrifices as you need to too keep it. My marriage broke down, it was bye bye top notch 2 year old Galaxy with the flip down TV's and all the other shit, hello 10 year old rover 400.

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It is, its just that you make as many sacrifices as you need to too keep it. My marriage broke down, it was bye bye top notch 2 year old Galaxy with the flip down TV's and all the other shit, hello 10 year old rover 400.

 

I suspect thousands of people are going to lose their homes no matter how many sacrifices they make.

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some of the comments are fair play and some arent.

 

When labour came into power Brown made a speech about how they would keep house prices under control, look after pensions and keep education a focal point of their policy.

 

In the last ten years we've seen house prices go out of control, pensions crash and education costs sour through the roof.

 

The average debt coming out of university is what £10-£15K, put a mortgage on that and it's a lifetime of debt on an island in the north see where everything fkin expensive, run down and the weathers generally wank

 

The illusion is that all this time people have felt "better off" by watching the capital (house) sky rocket. Along with ten years of cheap money, the relaxing of credit checks and lack of education of what this actually means.

 

All good things come to an end. I believe the current crunch is more of a correction in the market. Last year people were moaning about not being able to afford to buy. Now however were seeing people head into negative equity with rising interest rates, increase in inflation and a price correction in the housing market.

 

The rising cost of fuel is transferred down into society through hiking up "every day products" At the same time were being fucked over for gas, elecy, pretty much all services. I don't see any of these companies coming in at a loss at the end of their financial year.

 

So where are we. Well no one knows, confidence in the market is low which tends to breed amongst itself. The last recession lasted 7 years so really we could only be on the cusp of it. There is real pressure to reduce the price of fuel. All you hippies can re cycle your own shit but fueld drives the economy. We'll probably see a slowing in fuel prices and a growth in indirect taxation. Things like flight prices will go up to compensate, encouraging people to spend their money in the uk and generate spending int the economy.

 

Brown is done the tories will win the next election. Whilst Labour chuffed along when things were going great he's doing a generally bad job at trying to distance the larty from current events, blaming "the arebs for fuel prices, the market for the economy"

 

People arent that stupid and they'll need a scapegoat, browns the man.

 

Time to tighten the belts people and put your cash in the bank & consolidate.

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some of the comments are fair play and some arent.

 

When labour came into power Brown made a speech about how they would keep house prices under control, look after pensions and keep education a focal point of their policy.

 

In the last ten years we've seen house prices go out of control, pensions crash and education costs sour through the roof.

 

The average debt coming out of university is what £10-£15K, put a mortgage on that and it's a lifetime of debt on an island in the north see where everything fkin expensive, run down and the weathers generally wank

 

The illusion is that all this time people have felt "better off" by watching the capital (house) sky rocket. Along with ten years of cheap money, the relaxing of credit checks and lack of education of what this actually means.

 

All good things come to an end. I believe the current crunch is more of a correction in the market. Last year people were moaning about not being able to afford to buy. Now however were seeing people head into negative equity with rising interest rates, increase in inflation and a price correction in the housing market.

 

The rising cost of fuel is transferred down into society through hiking up "every day products" At the same time were being fucked over for gas, elecy, pretty much all services. I don't see any of these companies coming in at a loss at the end of their financial year.

 

So where are we. Well no one knows, confidence in the market is low which tends to breed amongst itself. The last recession lasted 7 years so really we could only be on the cusp of it. There is real pressure to reduce the price of fuel. All you hippies can re cycle your own shit but fueld drives the economy. We'll probably see a slowing in fuel prices and a growth in indirect taxation. Things like flight prices will go up to compensate, encouraging people to spend their money in the uk and generate spending int the economy.

 

Brown is done the tories will win the next election. Whilst Labour chuffed along when things were going great he's doing a generally bad job at trying to distance the larty from current events, blaming "the arebs for fuel prices, the market for the economy"

 

People arent that stupid and they'll need a scapegoat, browns the man.

 

Time to tighten the belts people and put your cash in the bank & consolidate.

 

Fucking hell, that's an AWESOME post bri.

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It is, its just that you make as many sacrifices as you need to too keep it. My marriage broke down, it was bye bye top notch 2 year old Galaxy with the flip down TV's and all the other shit, hello 10 year old rover 400.

 

If you ever visit Oslo, I'll take you for a ride. You will not be impressed.

 

Other than that, I agree with both you and Liz.

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the people i feel for are those going into negative equity. There's a huge pressure in this country that you have to own your own house and if you don't you've failed. however in other parts of europe this isnt the case. Up until this year though you'd of been hard pushed to argue otherwise with all these people watching their house price rocket.

 

Now were seeing companies buy house back at say 70% of their value and rent it back to the original owner without security of tenure. Their then hiking up the rent after 6 months and kicking them out.

 

However the other side of the coin is people living on the never never, two motors on the drive, plasma tv and stereo in every room but not paying the mortgage. I think were in for a fairly rough ride. rest assured whoever gets us out of it will claim it a victory,labour or the tories.

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Time to tighten the belts people and put your cash in the bank & consolidate.

 

The proper pessimists (realists?) would say that the bank's the last place to put anything at the moment, and that cash (or the sterling variety anyway) may well be totally fucked before too long.

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No. The problem stems from folk being hoodwinked into thinking they can 'afford' more than they can by virtue of owning their gaff, and buying shite off the back of it.

 

Anyone who thinks the Tories are going to be a panacea are in cuckoo-land. When in power they oversaw two of the biggest recessions in modern times (black wednesday, the pitiful withdraw.al from the ERM) Not to mention their frankly criminal neglection of public funding: schools, the NHS and public transport networks were all left to rot - shameful shit right there. Then they bailed out and left Blair's government to pick up the pieces. No wonder our taxes went up - they had to to fix the gaping hole the Tories had left us. Now, I'm no fan of Brown but he'll get my vote purely because the Tories are guaranteed to fuck it all up on a scale Labour couldn't even imagine, or consciously allow to happen.

 

Edit: Just seen the tags: Just why is windass boethius?

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To qualify this i would make the following observations.

What relevance does the struggles of your Grandparents have with todays problems? You could just as easily dismiss their problems as irrelevant when set against those of say the Victorians or even the Medievals before them. The fact of the matter is that i have quite a few close friends who are struggling very very badly right now, reagardless of whether they can "log on " or watch Sky Television, still, it can't EVER be Labours fault can it?

 

I was just making the point that the Labour MP who spoke was around a similar age so I'd assume the poverty he experienced growing up is fuck all to the poverty people talk about now. I'd imagine he was referring back to the poverty he experienced growing up and couldn't understand how people can say that they can't afford to feed their families, for instance, yet can afford, sky, Sky telly or other material possessions.

 

Referring back to the likes of Victorian and Medieval ages is just pedantic bollocks and you know it.

 

I'm not saying I totally agree with what the MP said as I don't think he worded it in the best possible way but he made a valid point, in my opinion.

 

We've never had it so good in the last 10 years and as a result, people have become a hell of a lot more materialistic and become dependent on things that are hardly essential.

 

Again, I'm not saying people aren't struggling because a few obviously are, but cutting your cloth accordingly and sacrificing a few material possessions can be a big difference to some people.

 

It just seems a lot of people nowadays don't have the capability to make the most of what resources they have. For instance, I read somewhere in the week that a woman had wasted something like £30s worth of food in a week from leftovers and such. Being able to maximise whatever you have, for instance, can help make little differences in the long run.

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I was just making the point that the Labour MP who spoke was around a similar age so I'd assume the poverty he experienced growing up is fuck all to the poverty people talk about now. I'd imagine he was referring back to the poverty he experienced growing up and couldn't understand how people can say that they can't afford to feed their families, for instance, yet can afford, sky, Sky telly or other material possessions.

 

Referring back to the likes of Victorian and Medieval ages is just pedantic bollocks and you know it.

 

I'm not saying I totally agree with what the MP said as I don't think he worded it in the best possible way but he made a valid point, in my opinion.

 

We've never had it so good in the last 10 years and as a result, people have become a hell of a lot more materialistic and become dependent on things that are hardly essential.

 

Again, I'm not saying people aren't struggling because a few obviously are, but cutting your cloth accordingly and sacrificing a few material possessions can be a big difference to some people.

 

It just seems a lot of people nowadays don't have the capability to make the most of what resources they have. For instance, I read somewhere in the week that a woman had wasted something like £30s worth of food in a week from leftovers and such. Being able to maximise whatever you have, for instance, can help make little differences in the long run.

 

youre making all these points.Id like to know your lifestye!. worker,student,family man what? how much do you earn? have you lived on benefits?.

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some of the comments are fair play and some arent.

 

When labour came into power Brown made a speech about how they would keep house prices under control, look after pensions and keep education a focal point of their policy.

 

In the last ten years we've seen house prices go out of control, pensions crash and education costs sour through the roof.

 

The average debt coming out of university is what £10-£15K, put a mortgage on that and it's a lifetime of debt on an island in the north see where everything fkin expensive, run down and the weathers generally wank

 

The illusion is that all this time people have felt "better off" by watching the capital (house) sky rocket. Along with ten years of cheap money, the relaxing of credit checks and lack of education of what this actually means.

 

All good things come to an end. I believe the current crunch is more of a correction in the market. Last year people were moaning about not being able to afford to buy. Now however were seeing people head into negative equity with rising interest rates, increase in inflation and a price correction in the housing market.

 

The rising cost of fuel is transferred down into society through hiking up "every day products" At the same time were being fucked over for gas, elecy, pretty much all services. I don't see any of these companies coming in at a loss at the end of their financial year.

 

So where are we. Well no one knows, confidence in the market is low which tends to breed amongst itself. The last recession lasted 7 years so really we could only be on the cusp of it. There is real pressure to reduce the price of fuel. All you hippies can re cycle your own shit but fueld drives the economy. We'll probably see a slowing in fuel prices and a growth in indirect taxation. Things like flight prices will go up to compensate, encouraging people to spend their money in the uk and generate spending int the economy.

 

Brown is done the tories will win the next election. Whilst Labour chuffed along when things were going great he's doing a generally bad job at trying to distance the larty from current events, blaming "the arebs for fuel prices, the market for the economy"

 

People arent that stupid and they'll need a scapegoat, browns the man.

 

Time to tighten the belts people and put your cash in the bank & consolidate.

 

 

Excellent post

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I suspect thousands of people are going to lose their homes no matter how many sacrifices they make.

I think that's true, but it doesn't mean that they don't bare some measure of responsibility. Mnay people have bought to let, or as a way to make large sums of money when the house price increases. Their reasons have been avaricious. Poor people, however, have been priced out of the housing market when all they've wanted is somewhere to live. For a large number of people in this country I suspect reality is going to bite. Hard.

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