Barry replacing Alonso: the pros and cons

[Kevin D]

Gareth Barry is obviously a talented player but why we have to get rid of one top player to buy a good player makes no sense. Chelsea have Essien Ballack , Lampard and Makelele so we need the strength in depth because Lucas has hardly been inspiring.

 

Also Xabi is far better looking than Barry.

[Thants]

Gareth Barry is obviously a talented player but why we have to get rid of one top player to buy a good player makes no sense. Chelsea have Essien Ballack , Lampard and Makelele so we need the strength in depth because Lucas has hardly been inspiring.

 

Also Xabi is far better looking than Barry.

 

Possibly give him more than a season away from his family? He got more assists than Xabi this year.

 

I agree with Xabi being prettier.

[captainharris]

I think it's more a case of releasing new funds. Buy someone of similar quality for less money than we can sell another. That way the balance of the team isn't affected too much (infact it may even be improved). Plus we'll have a few quid to then strengthen another area of the team.

[spider-neil]

I think barry will have a 'gary mac' effect on our corners which currently are shite.

 

I think drewy's comment about knowing nothing about football if you fail to see how barry will improve us is a little harsh but you can run off a long list of the way we will improve as a team. oh what the hell...

 

a) he is very mobile, whilst I absolutely love xabi he isn't the quickest.

this will mean we can defend higher and break quicker. also with barry and masherano being more mobile they will be able to cover the fullbacks (who SHOULD be attacking) more effectively.

 

b) he (barry) is left footed, perfect symmetry with masher.

agger - left foot

carra - right foot

barry - left foot

masher - right foot

a truly balanced spine

 

c) he is a fantastic corner taker.

our corners are by and large SHITE, barry whips them in the box with power and accurancey, also gerrard can stay in the box as (imho) he is a better header of the ball than a corner taker.

our set pieces will also improve, yeah yeah the occasional set peice goes in but its all about numbers, if the ball is delivered into the box more accurately with pace its more likely someone will get on the end of it than haplessly going direct for goal (which fucks me off no end with both of our center backs up front)

 

d) he can play in a varity of positions

this is an vital in regards to changing formations mid game, injuries and suspentions.

 

e) if a qouta is passed we are covered.

 

so in closing I think drewy was a little harsh but you can see where he is coming from.

[Guido]

Right, i've stopped crying now. Oh Xabi!!!

 

Very annoyed that this is going to happen, but it will.

Barry is more solid as a defensive midfielder. He's also left-footed. Age difference is negligible. He's a good mate of Stevie G, which could improve game understanding and mean he takes hardly any time to settle in. Being English is good but not important.

 

However, Xabi has been world class and will be again. Barry probably never will be. Being at Villa makes Barry look better than he is (same goes for Young & Agbonlahor). Why are we fucking about with central midfield anyway when it's sorted? Is it just so we can change things slightly but end up £3/4m better off? Pointless disruption if so.

 

All in all - the 'swap' probably won't make anywhere near as much difference to anything as is being made out. Need to focus on getting a top forward and a top RB, but doubt the latter will happen either now we have The Deg.

[Red Nick]

Not against Xabi being sold but strongly against the money being used on Barry

[Xabi D]

Every team needs a balance of artists and workers, if we loose Xabi for Barry it will tip our side into too much of a workhorse unit.

[Guido]

Not against Xabi being sold but strongly against the money being used on Barry

 

You mean revert to 442 w/ Gerrard & Masch in the centre w/ Lucas & Plessis as back up? Could do, but would leave CM a bit light on proper quality. An injury to Masch would fuck us up. Need Xabi or Barry really.

[Best Believe It]

As much as I respect Big Jan Molby, I'm going to take issue with what he said about Xabi dominating games. When he was injured I was one of the people who thought that him coming back would have a positive affect on the way we played, but it didn't massively happen.

 

The way I thought Alonso would be is a deeper-lying playmaker who dictates the pace of the game, controls the midfield and starts moves. Has he really done that consistently for a while?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Xabi Alonso, I just think he gets by-passed in the Premier League. Apart from the odd game here and there he's not been at the level I thought he should be at for about two years.

 

In saying that, selling him wouldn't have occured to me but then I'm not a manager. I've rated Garrido Baresma for a while now and think that, like Gary mac, he'll make a massive step up when training under a top manager and alongside top players, week in week out. And our set pieces will improve immeasurably.

[crouchaholic]

Every team needs a balance of artists and workers, if we loose Xabi for Barry it will tip our side into too much of a workhorse unit.

 

What absolute twaddle! Put Barry into a side with Agger, Carra, Finnan, Aurelio, Mascher, Gerrard, Babel, Torres and Kuyt, which is a side many would prefer allowing fitness and form, and tell me how you count "artists" and "workers".

 

Also, do you not think that we will sign any other attacking players with "artistic" qualities? Obviously not.

[JohnnyH]

One of our legends talking sense.

 

tribalfootball.com - Molby urges Liverpool not to sell Xabi

 

Spot on the bit about Xabi being a once in a lifetime player, you can find Barry's on every street corner.

 

Molby is very wrong sadly. Great former player, but wrong. The last game Xabi dominated was against the blueshite when Gerrard was sent off. Since then, virtually nothing. I'll miss Xabi and I love the lad, but he is not going to help us to a league title. He may very well be the vital cog in another European Cup win; but not the Premiership.

[Xabi D]

What absolute twaddle! Put Barry into a side with Agger, Carra, Finnan, Aurelio, Mascher, Gerrard, Babel, Torres and Kuyt, which is a side many would prefer allowing fitness and form, and tell me how you count "artists" and "workers".

 

Also, do you not think that we will sign any other attacking players with "artistic" qualities? Obviously not.

 

Hopefully we will, it will only make us stronger. Of the team listed above the only players i would class as artists are Gerrard, Agger, Aurelio and Torres which is still pretty good but we need more. Im not knocking the other players btw, their strengths just lie in different areas.

[snez1]

We're losing a player with world class talent for a very good player.

 

Unfortunatly for Xabi, he's played at about 50% of that talent fo the last few years where as Barry has been consistantly excellent. In terms of natural ability Alonso is miles ahead, in terms of effectivness and form Barry is equaly as far ahead. It will improve us.....and i hate saying that because i love Xabi.

[hamstrung]

edit: already posted

[HJohal]

Financial benefits

 

Barry for Alonso + £4 million cash is good business when looking at the big picture. Even better if you can throw in Scott Carson + a reduced amount of cash for Gareth Barry.

 

On the pitch

 

With more full backs expected to attack more frequently to provide width up the pitch, the likes of Mascherano, Barry or Alonso would be expected to 'fill the holes' in the full back areas on a more regular basis. Barry would be more comfortable finding himself in the left back position than Alonso, in addition as a left footer he would also offer better balance in the middle.

 

Other considerations

 

Set pieces, both delivery and defending, Barry has a clear advantage. I believe that Barry is also the more athletic though not significantly.

 

Alonso is the more composed, better at dictating play and more experienced as far as big games are concerned. However his form and injury record has been below average for the last 2 years which is a reverse of Barry.

[HJohal]

Financial benefits

 

Barry for Alonso + £4 million cash is good business when looking at the big picture. Even better if you can throw in Scott Carson + a reduced amount of cash for Gareth Barry.

 

On the pitch

 

With more full backs expected to attack more frequently to provide width up the pitch, the likes of Mascherano, Barry or Alonso would be expected to 'fill the holes' in the full back areas on a more regular basis. Barry would be more comfortable finding himself in the left back position than Alonso, in addition as a left footer he would also offer better balance in the middle.

 

Other considerations

 

Set pieces, both delivery and defending, Barry has a clear advantage. I believe that Barry is also the more athletic though not significantly.

 

Alonso is the more composed, better at dictating play and more experienced as far as big games are concerned. However his form and injury record has been below average for the last 2 years which is a reverse of Barry.

[JangoSolo]

I'd be delighted with a Barry for Alonso exhange, I think Alonso has been great, but his influence has been on the wane for sometime now.

 

Barry is english which may help with the quotas and links fantastically well with Gerrard, he also weighs in with more goals, assists and setpieces.

 

Can't wait

[Royal Family]

There's a bit too much wailing and gnashing of teeth - and, worse, childish petulance - in replies on this topic for my liking. I feel that if we get good money for Xabi, it's an excellent deal for all concerned, just as with Sissoko. I can't think of a single performance by Xabi in the last two years that stands out - when i think of his great games (Arsenal, Everton, Norwich, Luton), they're all rather distant memories. I then think of his rather poor performances in big games like the West Ham cup final or the Milan final of 2007 (remember his clumsiness in facilitating the first goal?) or at Old Trafford this year, and it's clear that - at best - he's been inconsistent and I just don't think he's developed into the player we thought he was going to be, for whatever reason. I just don't think he's mentally or physically tough enough or has enough desire to really impose himself on games. I'm afraid we need more than that from him, and sentiment just cannot come into it. Where are the bids from the big Spanish teams now that Juve are progressing with theirs? Ask yourselves why they are seemingly not interested? And who knows what his role was behind the scenes this year - certainly too many of his performances have smacked of dissatisfaction and disinterest. I'll wish him well, but my liking for him as a decent and intelligent man can't disguise the fact that i just don't feel he is, or has been, what we need to progress.

 

I also feel that if he stays, we'll be selling him next summer for far less - remember Sissoko again - we could easily have got £12m for him just one year before he moved for far less. It doesn't make us a selling club - United and Arsenal have always sold players for good money, often seemingly at their peak. Henry? Stam? VanNistelrooy? Petit, Overmars, Viera?

 

Believe it or not, we're a long way off United and Chelsea over the course of a whole season, and things absolutely need to change. This is one area where the manager seems to have determined on a different approach: it may or may not work, but we do need to change things. It does amuse me that people on here demand fresh faces and then complain when Rafa seeks to move on a member of the existing squad when this existing squad is simply NOT good enough and has fallen consistently short! The manager will stand - or ultimately fall - by decisions like this, and if it doesn't work out, Rafa will pay the price. Until then, he's earned the right for us to support and trust him.

 

First post, so be gentle - long-time lurker!

[odris]

Gerrard can take the freekicks from the left with his right peg and Barry with his left on the right.

[Guido]

Hopefully we will, it will only make us stronger. Of the team listed above the only players i would class as artists are Gerrard, Agger, Aurelio and Torres which is still pretty good but we need more. Im not knocking the other players btw, their strengths just lie in different areas.

 

So Babel would be a 'worker' rather than an 'artist' then? Nope.

 

Agree with general sentiment of lack of flair in the squad, but that's nothin to do with the whole Barry/Xabi thing. CMs should be grafters in general.

[Xabi D]

So Babel would be a 'worker' rather than an 'artist' then? Nope.

 

Agree with general sentiment of lack of flair in the squad, but that's nothin to do with the whole Barry/Xabi thing. CMs should be grafters in general.

 

What kind of bullshit is that :eek:, lets bring in Robbe Savage and Michael Brown in if thats all you care about. The General of the team should be in CM orchestrating the attacks and passing of the team.

[Ian Sea]

I think it's more a case of releasing new funds. Buy someone of similar quality for less money than we can sell another. That way the balance of the team isn't affected too much (infact it may even be improved). Plus we'll have a few quid to then strengthen another area of the team.

 

I don't think there will be much difference in the costs of both players. Villa want more than £10m for Barry and Juve don't want to pay more than £14m for Xabi. There will probably be less than £4m difference at the end of the day, and in today's market that's fuck all really.

[RedinSweden]

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[spider-neil]

There's a bit too much wailing and gnashing of teeth - and, worse, childish petulance - in replies on this topic for my liking. I feel that if we get good money for Xabi, it's an excellent deal for all concerned, just as with Sissoko. I can't think of a single performance by Xabi in the last two years that stands out - when i think of his great games (Arsenal, Everton, Norwich, Luton), they're all rather distant memories. I then think of his rather poor performances in big games like the West Ham cup final or the Milan final of 2007 (remember his clumsiness in facilitating the first goal?) or at Old Trafford this year, and it's clear that - at best - he's been inconsistent and I just don't think he's developed into the player we thought he was going to be, for whatever reason. I just don't think he's mentally or physically tough enough or has enough desire to really impose himself on games. I'm afraid we need more than that from him, and sentiment just cannot come into it. Where are the bids from the big Spanish teams now that Juve are progressing with theirs? Ask yourselves why they are seemingly not interested? And who knows what his role was behind the scenes this year - certainly too many of his performances have smacked of dissatisfaction and disinterest. I'll wish him well, but my liking for him as a decent and intelligent man can't disguise the fact that i just don't feel he is, or has been, what we need to progress.

 

I also feel that if he stays, we'll be selling him next summer for far less - remember Sissoko again - we could easily have got £12m for him just one year before he moved for far less. It doesn't make us a selling club - United and Arsenal have always sold players for good money, often seemingly at their peak. Henry? Stam? VanNistelrooy? Petit, Overmars, Viera?

 

Believe it or not, we're a long way off United and Chelsea over the course of a whole season, and things absolutely need to change. This is one area where the manager seems to have determined on a different approach: it may or may not work, but we do need to change things. It does amuse me that people on here demand fresh faces and then complain when Rafa seeks to move on a member of the existing squad when this existing squad is simply NOT good enough and has fallen consistently short! The manager will stand - or ultimately fall - by decisions like this, and if it doesn't work out, Rafa will pay the price. Until then, he's earned the right for us to support and trust him.

 

First post, so be gentle - long-time lurker!

 

 

I think you've been overly harsh on xabi but that was a good first post

[Guido]

What kind of bullshit is that :eek:, lets bring in Robbe Savage and Michael Brown in if thats all you care about. The General of the team should be in CM orchestrating the attacks and passing of the team.

 

Exactly. What you on about? CMs should be all rounders who can do everything (pass, tackle, shoot, motivate) and get involved in everything - a grafter. 'Artists' are the flair players like Babel, Benayoun, Torres etc. as far as i'm concerned. Unless you're attempting to broaden the use of the term beyond what everyone currently uses it for. Quite a task. And a bit odd.

 

p.s. Stop telling everyone they're talking bullshit. It petulant stuff like that which gets everyone's back up - hence people saying you're 12 years old. Just calm it down a bit FFS! Your opinion is very welcome, but so is everyone elses.