Abortion

[melons]

Rargh's ex-missus didn't know she was pregnant until half an hour before she had their daughter. They had no choice but to get on with it.

 

exactly.

 

can i just add pregnancy tests pick up HCG, a hormone that starts to lessen greatly after 12 weeks...

 

 

God, i am not saying i am innocent and mrs moral mighty in all of this, just that i accept that if i take a risk i have to deal with it. have i done so in the past? yes.

 

edit,

 

i am sounding like a harsh cow, i'm not. i have been preggers 10 times, miscarried 6. or as medics like to call it, spontaneous abortions. My contraception choices are at present as a pregnancy would be a disater at the moment are... a mirena, (hormonal coil), the pill and should i get lucky, a condom. should an accident occur for the following 4 weeks i would probably be paranoid as hell doing pregnancy tests almost daily. should a result say i was pregnant, i would be straight down the doctors with the lucky guy discussing options. Its not rocket science is it?

[WaltonRed]

That's just totally over simplistic.

 

Is infanticide up to the parents too?

 

you are just being pedantic though so lets just jib it!

[thechap]

Can I just add despite mine and others clearly strong feelings about the issue - from both sides of the debate - that it is very refreshing and welcome that such a debate could be had without the need to resorting to abusing one another. Abuse is all too often thrown around this forum when differences of opinion occur and it doesn't help the debate and is usually uncalled for.

[Sugar Ape]

Anti-abortion group drafted in as sexual health adviser to government | Society | The Guardian

 

Anti-abortion group drafted in as sexual health adviser to government. Coalition appoints pro-abstinence charity Life to key sexual health forum, while omitting British Pregnancy Advisory Service

 

A group which is opposed to abortion in all circumstances and favours an abstinence-based approach to sex education has been appointed to advise the government on sexual health.

 

The Life organisation has been invited to join a new sexual health forum set up to replace the Independent Advisory Group on Sexual Health and HIV.

 

Stuart Cowie, Life's head of education, said: "We are delighted to be invited into the group, representing views that have not always been around on similar tables in the past."

 

In contrast, the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS) has been omitted from the forum despite its long-term position on the previous advisory group and 40-year track record in providing pregnancy counselling nationwide.

 

"We are disappointed and troubled to learn that having initially been invited to the sexual health forum we have been disinvited, particularly now we understand that Life have been offered a seat at the table," said Ann Furedi, chief executive of BPAS. "We find it puzzling that the Department of Health would want a group that is opposed to abortion and provides no sexual health services on its sexual health forum."

 

Cowie said Life would seek to build "common ground" with other members of the panel. "If we can be involved with other people in reducing [the number of abortions], then that fits with our charitable objectives and I don't think is unpalatable to anyone else, regardless of their position on when life begins."

 

However, Life's support for greater emphasis on abstinence when it comes to sexual education is likely to be one of a number of areas where it will be on a collision course with other members of forum. For example, Life has been critical of literature about contraception distributed by the sexual health charity, Brook. They will sit alongside each other at the forum. Life claimed that teenagers were not being told that condoms only gave partial protection against some STIs (sexually transmitted infections) and little or no protection against others.

 

Brook's national director, Simon Blake, said its literature was based on clinical evidence, and linked the provision of such information to underlying figures from abortion statistics released on Tuesday which showed a reduction in teenage conceptions despite an overall rise in the number of abortions. The under-18 abortion rate has reduced from 17.6 per 1,000 women in 2009 to 16.5 per 1,000 women in 2010.

 

Blake said: "Having made such massive progress, what we have to do is sustain that … and not go back to a time when the young had really poor sexual and relationship education and see a rise in teenage pregnancy rates and sexually transmitted infections as a result."

 

The new committee has held one meeting but Life was not represented. The invitation to the group by Anne Milton, the public health minister, appears to have caught some forum members by surprise.

 

It could yet open up another area of disagreement within the coalition. The former Liberal Democrat MP Evan Harris, warned that the organisation's presence could prevent the panel functioning properly. "When you have an organisation campaigning against the law and against current policy on sexual health, which is pro-contraception and about ensuring that abortion is a choice, then the risk is that you prevent the panel being given access to confidential information," he said.

 

"It can prevent the advisory panel having frank and open discussions because you have a group there that is committed to opposing current policy."

 

A Department of Health spokesperson said: "To provide balance, it is important that a wide range of interests and views are represented on the forum.

 

"Marie Stopes International and the British Pregnancy Advisory Service have similar interests. We offered them shared membership but they declined, and after careful consideration we concluded that it was not feasible to invite both organisations."

 

BPAS asserts that the department withdrew the offer of 'shared membership'.

 

The forum consists of representatives of the British Association for Sexual Health and HIV; the Faculty of Sexual and Reproductive Health at the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists; the Association of Directors of Public Health; the British HIV Association; the Terrence Higgins Trust; Brook; the Family Planning Association; the Sex Education Forum and National Children's Bureau; Marie Stopes International; and Life.

 

The department said the criteria applied in terms of appointments to the group was that the core membership would be drawn from national level organisations with a remit covering sexual health across England. They also had to be able to demonstrate clear evidence of impact in improving sexual health and must have a sufficient infrastructure to be able to field deputies at a senior level in the organisation.

 

Life also became a founding member last week of a new Sex and Relationships Council, which was launched in parliament with the endorsement of the education secretary, Michael Gove.

 

The council, which includes the Christian-run pro-abstinence group the Silver Ring Thing, says it aims to bring the voice of what it describes as "value-based, parent centred" sex and relationship education (SRE) providers to policy discussions on the future of SRE in schools.

 

A total of 189,574 abortions were performed in 2010 – a 0.3% increase on the previous year, the figures released on Tuesday show.

 

Marie Stopes described the rise as small but warned that the figures sent a warning for the government's family planning strategy.

 

"There are three key areas that need to be focused on: education, access and choice," it said, calling for the delivery of "comprehensive and standardised sex and relationship education in all schools".

 

In its response to the figures, the Family Planning Association said: "Clearly there needs to be a much better relationship and tighter integration between local contraceptive and abortion services. Despite the advances, women still live in a postcode lottery. Where you live dictates how quickly you'll get an abortion. This is unacceptable."

 

Life, which provides its own pregnancy counselling services and describes itself as non-denominational, reacted to the figures by suggesting that a "cooling off" period before abortions could play a role in reducing the number being performed.

 

Some secular organisations have been growing increasingly worried that Tory ministers are opening up government to the agendas of faith-based and pro-life groups.

 

Some of the same groups have already been preparing to capitalise on the government's big society agenda, which would potentially allow them to replace secular groups in terms of providing services.

 

In Richmond, south-west London, the Catholic Children's Society has taken over the £89,000 contract to provide advice to schoolchildren on matters including contraception and pregnancies. Another Christian-run charity, Care Confidential, is involved in providing crisis pregnancy advice under the auspices of Newham PCT in east London. Care's education arm, Evaluate, was one of the founding members, alongside Life, of the Sex and Relationships Council.

 

 

Meanwhile in parliament, the battle lines on abortion are set to be drawn again after cross-party amendments to the health and social care bill were put forward by anti-abortion MPs in a bid to tighten the rules on terminations.

 

The first amendment, put forward by Nadine Dorries and Frank Field, would establish a new precondition for any women having an abortion to receive advice and counselling from an organisation that does not itself carry out terminations.

[Lee909]

Catholic charities in charge of advice on contraception,what a fucking joke.

Maybe if they spent some time concentrating on the aids issue in Africa and kept away from alter boys they might get somewere.

 

 

The Abortion rates are a fucking disgrace,one of my sisters mates who is about 20 has allready had four or five.

around 520 abortions a day if that figure of 189,574 is correct

[Unrighteous]

I want to have your abortion.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Just adds to the cuntishness of Nadine Dorries. The fact that the 'Liberal' 'Democrats' are shacked up with these cunts makes my head throb.

[melons]

Life and catholics leading the way on sexual health, pregnancy and abortion....

 

 

Am i missing something here? Did any of these groups actually change their beliefs?

 

Ignorant turds.

[Liverpool lad]

I would back a campaign for an increase to 150 weeks, and up to a thousand weeks in cases like Pierre

[Strontium]

Just adds to the cuntishness of Nadine Dorries. The fact that the 'Liberal' 'Democrats' are shacked up with these cunts makes my head throb.

The former Liberal Democrat MP Evan Harris, warned that the organisation's presence could prevent the panel functioning properly. "When you have an organisation campaigning against the law and against current policy on sexual health, which is pro-contraception and about ensuring that abortion is a choice, then the risk is that you prevent the panel being given access to confidential information," he said.

 

"It can prevent the advisory panel having frank and open discussions because you have a group there that is committed to opposing current policy."

 

 

Can't accuse us of not fighting our corner here.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Can't accuse us of not fighting our corner here.

 

I didn't (although, I'm not sure a former MP counts as fighting your corner). You've got some dissidents in your party, that's for sure. I was incredibly impressed with John Hemming on sky news. To say he smashed them to bits.

 

My problem is that this coalition is helping enable this, rather than stop it. It's not liberal and it's not democratic. Surely those two things shouldn't be up for compromise. I hear those two things are pretty important to the Liberal Democrats.

[Mr T]

The Guardian is just an inverted Daily Mail for sandal wearers.

 

Good to sees it's got its uber-'liberal' readers frothing at the mouth with rage though. Those chilled-out hippy motherfuckers.

[silverlining]

The Guardian is just an inverted Daily Mail for sandal wearers.

 

Good to sees it's got its uber-'liberal' readers frothing at the mouth with rage though. Those chilled-out hippy motherfuckers.

 

The Guardian is wrong about everything. All the time.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The Guardian is just an inverted Daily Mail for sandal wearers.

 

Not really. The Daily Mail is for bottom-feeding twats who are unable to apply any critical thinking to what they've read. Daily Mail readers are like you.

 

Good to sees it's got its uber-'liberal' readers frothing at the mouth with rage though. Those chilled-out hippy motherfuckers.

 

It isn't the Guardian causing the rage, it's the reactionary government.

[Sugar Ape]

Mr T and Hermes competing for the forums biggest Tory douche award.

[Mr T]

Not really. The Daily Mail is for bottom-feeding twats who are unable to apply any critical thinking to what they've read. Daily Mail readers are like you.

 

 

 

It isn't the Guardian causing the rage, it's the reactionary government.

 

Do you not think it diminishes your point somewhat to suggest that I'm a bit of a thickie? Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

 

The Guardian causes rage by going: "Look at those wicked Tories, they are doing things abhorrent like consulting a wide range of views on an issue of conscience!" The sandal wearers in all their liberalness are outraged of course that some people have differing opinions to them. Such dissent must be crushed.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Do you not think it diminishes your point somewhat to suggest that I'm a bit of a thickie? Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

 

I'm not suggest anything, I'm saying point-blank that you're as dull as dishwater. The evidence is laced in every single thing you post.

 

The Guardian causes rage by going: "Look at those wicked Tories, they are doing things abhorrent like consulting a wide range of views on an issue of conscience!" The sandal wearers in all their liberalness are outraged of course that some people have differing opinions to them. Such dissent must be crushed.

 

The Guardian's readership is, in general, very well educated. The readership is, in general, able to decide for themselves what they believe. The same is true of Independent, FT and, to a lesser extent, the Times.

 

I've noticed you've not commented on the issue, though. What do you think about it?

[Mr T]

I'm not suggest anything, I'm saying point-blank that you're as dull as dishwater. The evidence is laced in every single thing you post.

 

 

 

The Guardian's readership is, in general, very well educated. The readership is, in general, able to decide for themselves what they believe.

 

A couple of tiny side-steps there. I paraphrase, 'bottom-feeding twat without critical thinking skills' to 'dull as dishwater'. The first is an assertion which is positive and verifiable, the other is normative which can never be verified. So going back to the first statement which you made, got any evidence for it?

 

As for your second point - the Guardian's readership has its own prejudices like everyone else but unfortunately they aren't that self-aware. That's why the hypocrisy of the (il-)liberals is so amusing. You're a case in point.

[King Emlyn]

I'm not suggest anything, I'm saying point-blank that you're as dull as dishwater. The evidence is laced in every single thing you post.

 

 

 

The Guardian's readership is, in general, very well educated. The readership is, in general, able to decide for themselves what they believe. The same is true of Independent, FT and, to a lesser extent, the Times.

 

I've noticed you've not commented on the issue, though. What do you think about it?

It's ditchwater goddammit!

[VladimirIlyich]

Whats the issue here? Is it having too many groups with the same views or too many differing views?

 

Who are this life group?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

A couple of tiny side-steps there. I paraphrase, 'bottom-feeding twat without critical thinking skills' to 'dull as dishwater'. The first is an assertion which is positive and verifiable, the other is normative which can never be verified. So going back to the first statement which you made, got any evidence for it?

 

Okay, let be totally unequivocal. I think you're stupid. The reason I think you're stupid is because I've read the things you've said. The things you say are all the evidence I need to believe you're pretty stupid. I hope this clears things up for you. If you're expecting me to go back through posting history to quote your ignorant shite, you've got a long wait ahead of you.

 

Now, maybe you'd like to talk about the subject?

 

As for your second point - the Guardian's readership has its own prejudices like everyone else but unfortunately they aren't that self-aware. That's why the hypocrisy of the (il-)liberals is so amusing. You're a case in point.

 

Oh, good one.

[The Flâneur]

It's ditchwater goddammit!

 

Is it really? I've always said dishwater as well. I think perhaps ditchwater is being red squirreled, tragic.

[Mr T]

Okay, let be totally unequivocal. I think you're stupid. The reason I think you're stupid is because I've read the things you've said. The things you say are all the evidence I need to believe you're pretty stupid. I hope this clears things up for you. If you're expecting me to go back through posting history to quote your ignorant shite, you've got a long wait ahead of you.

 

Now, maybe you'd like to talk about the subject?

 

 

 

Oh, good one.

 

The fact you think I'm stupid says a lot more about you than it does about me.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The fact you think I'm stupid says a lot more about you than it does about me.

 

It says nothing more than I think you're stupid. I don't mean stupid in the sense that Simon is stupid, I mean that I think you're completely unable to think critical about your own position. I think that you're unable to look any deeper than what you're spoon fed by other nincompoops.

[lifetime fan]

It's ditchwater goddammit!

 

Is it really? I've always said dishwater as well. I think perhaps ditchwater is being red squirreled, tragic.

 

It is ditchwater.