Peter Crouch

[Moschops II]

A good proportion of people on this website will violently disagree with the statements in the above paragraph. Plenty of people on here dislike him intensely, and don't rate him, fools as they are.

 

Most of them will have been bitching and moaning about him since the day he arrived though (if not, in fact, as soon as his name was mentioned in connection with us weeks beforehand).

 

I honestly can't think of a player in our recent past whose actual performances have had so little bearing on how he gets talked about. Hat-trick against Arsenal? They all go quiet. Doesn't play at all (as with last night)? He's slow, hopeless, and not good enough to wear the shirt.

 

A part of me will be glad when he's gone, if only because so much of the supporters' response to him (the internet supporters, to be fair, rather than those at the ground) has been embarrassing since the start.

[GJM]

Nope, I don't think it was a complete accident, it was just another formation he was trying out. The point I was trying to make to the 'Rafa can do no wrong' brigade was that he could have chosen to buy players to fit the formation from day one, but he didn't. He chose to try several other formations before trying this one and having success with it. As I said before, that doesn't mean he's a bad manager - in fact, I think it shows a certain flexibility in his approach that is not always obvious at a lower level.

 

I don't disagree with that at all. Opinion seems polarised on this; it's either the line of 'he's finally, by accident, after 4 years, found something that works', or it's the 'Rafa's a genius who has had all of this planned since the day he arrived' line. Neither of which ring true to me. And nor you by the sounds of it.

[GOLDMEMBER]

Most of them will have been bitching and moaning about him since the day he arrived though (if not, in fact, as soon as his name was mentioned in connection with us weeks beforehand).

 

I honestly can't think of a player in our recent past whose actual performances have had so little bearing on how he gets talked about. Hat-trick against Arsenal? They all go quiet. Doesn't play at all (as with last night)? He's slow, hopeless, and not good enough to wear the shirt.

 

A part of me will be glad when he's gone, if only because so much of the supporters' response to him (the internet supporters, to be fair, rather than those at the ground) has been embarrassing since the start.

 

I can honestly say, i like Crouch always have. Theres been times, especially this season when he's looked like he cant be arsed but who can blame him, 5 minutes here and there. What i will say and i don't think its just a liverpool fan issue, i think people dis-credit him as a player simply because of how he looks, and he'll constantly get that through his carrer.

[silverlining]

Most of them will have been bitching and moaning about him since the day he arrived though (if not, in fact, as soon as his name was mentioned in connection with us weeks beforehand).

 

I honestly can't think of a player in our recent past whose actual performances have had so little bearing on how he gets talked about. Hat-trick against Arsenal? They all go quiet. Doesn't play at all (as with last night)? He's slow, hopeless, and not good enough to wear the shirt.

 

A part of me will be glad when he's gone, if only because so much of the supporters' response to him (the internet supporters, to be fair, rather than those at the ground) has been embarrassing since the start.

 

Ah, I see.

 

Real fans, the "lads who go the game, and KNOW the game" appreciate Crouch.

 

Fucking jester-hat scarfers and keyboard warriors who never "go the game" are all clueless knobheads because they can't see past the media hype to see the real talent below.

[Moschops II]

Ah, I see.

 

Real fans, the "lads who go the game, and KNOW the game" appreciate Crouch.

 

Fucking jester-hat scarfers and keyboard warriors who never "go the game" are all clueless knobheads because they can't see past the media hype to see the real talent below.

 

I'm not sure I'd have said anything so simplistic, Brendan, or put it in such an attention-seeking manner. Put it this way, although you hear all kinds of shite at the ground, I've never heard Crouch called "Lurch" there. Presumably you for one keep that kind of stuff under wraps when you're actually at the match?

[silverlining]

I'm not sure I'd have said anything so simplistic, Brendan, or put it in such an attention-seeking manner. Put it this way, although you hear all kinds of shite at the ground, I've never heard Crouch called "Lurch" there. Presumably you for one keep that kind of stuff under wraps when you're actually at the match?

 

Of course. For the same reason I don't fucking boo our own players no matter how shit they are playing, or shout abuse at them, or scream advice to Benitez about who he should play.

 

Alas, many of our fans who "go the game" very occasionally do.

 

cf Harry Kewell in Istanbul.

[Moschops II]

Of course. For the same reason I don't fucking boo our own players no matter how shit they are playing, or shout abuse at them, or scream advice to Benitez about who he should play.

 

Alas, many of our fans who "go the game" very occasionally do.

 

cf Harry Kewell in Istanbul.

 

As I said in the original post, the most classless abuse I've seen Crouch receive has been on the internet, rather than at the game.

 

If you want to try and expand that into a generalised comment about fans at the ground being better supporters than those on the net, be my guest - but as it's not what I was saying or necessarily even my opinion, you'll have to find someone else to argue about it with.

[Brodie]

Because if it was his favoured formation, he would have started out buying players to suit it. He didn't. He's tried lots of formations, and as Paul says, he's stumbled onto something that works with the players he has. I love Rafa, but to suggest that he has spent the last four years planning to get to this point, this way of playing, is deluded. He's human, you know, he can and does make mistakes. Quite big ones, sometimes. That doesn't mean he isn't a great manager.

 

Theres that word again.

 

I'm not claiming he's been planning this for four years, where did I say that? I said it was his favoured formation. He's tried playing this formation before with us, mostly without great success, the key this season as I've already meantioned was the development between Gerrard and Torres, which has allowed us to use it now.

 

The classic nbr 10 role that Gerrard is filling now is probably the most difficult position to fill and he has tried various players in there over the last 4 years - Garcia, Kewell, Kuyt, Veronin, Morientes and Fowler. Its also one of the most expensive positions to fill. And maybe spending big there should have been more of a priority.

 

However, I believe firmly the only reason we havent played this more often over the last 4 years is Gerrard. You need to be defensively disciplined to play in the 2, and Rafa obvioulsy has had his doubts over Gerrards ability to do this - added to the fact his creativity in the last 3rd would be lost. And by ensuring his best player was in the team somewhere I think Rafa had to adapt his formation accordingly.

 

As I said earlier Gerrards and Torres' partnership has allowed him to work around that now.

[James Hook]

Does Crouch suffer tall man syndrome?

[Unrighteous]

How can one of the most tactically estute managers just STUMBLE onto a formation that he'll play?

 

Rashid, that's utter crap. You are trying to make Rafa sound like a bumbling idiot.

[Guest TK-421]

How can one of the most tactically estute managers just STUMBLE onto a formation that he'll play?

 

Rashid, that's utter crap. You are trying to make Rafa sound like a bumbling idiot.

 

Simple, he put all the players' names into a hat and drew them out. Same with the formation and hey presto - a winning formula!

[aws]

Rafa has been slowly integrating Babel and Lucas all season. Maybe, just maybe, he didn't want to switch the system until the players were in his opinion ready for it.

[Rashid]

Rafa has been slowly integrating Babel and Lucas all season. Maybe, just maybe, he didn't want to switch the system until the players were in his opinion ready for it.

 

Maybe not actually. He had Sissoko before Lucas came... and we have had Benayoun, Kuyt, Pennant etc all season too. I think he knew of this system but didn't ralise it would work so well consistently. It accomodates Torres, Alonso, Gerrard and Kuyt without upsetting the captain so it's perfect.

[stringvest]

Theres that word again.

 

I'm not claiming he's been planning this for four years, where did I say that? I said it was his favoured formation. He's tried playing this formation before with us, mostly without great success, the key this season as I've already meantioned was the development between Gerrard and Torres, which has allowed us to use it now.

 

The classic nbr 10 role that Gerrard is filling now is probably the most difficult position to fill and he has tried various players in there over the last 4 years - Garcia, Kewell, Kuyt, Veronin, Morientes and Fowler. Its also one of the most expensive positions to fill. And maybe spending big there should have been more of a priority.

 

However, I believe firmly the only reason we havent played this more often over the last 4 years is Gerrard. You need to be defensively disciplined to play in the 2, and Rafa obvioulsy has had his doubts over Gerrards ability to do this - added to the fact his creativity in the last 3rd would be lost. And by ensuring his best player was in the team somewhere I think Rafa had to adapt his formation accordingly.

 

As I said earlier Gerrards and Torres' partnership has allowed him to work around that now.

 

I think the lack of a pacy forward prevented him playing this in the past - far more than the Gerrard 'problem' as described. Benitez bought Crouch, Morientes and Kuyt to play as centre forwards, not for a 4-2-3-1.

The word 'stumbled' appears to grate with some people's over active sensitivity glands re Rafa. Let's use the phrase 'decided, after trying lots of other formations'. For fuck's sake, there's nothing wrong with changing one's mind when it looks like you're heading down a blind alley. I admire Benitez for that.

[Dirk]

Rafa has been slowly integrating Babel and Lucas all season. Maybe, just maybe, he didn't want to switch the system until the players were in his opinion ready for it.

 

Bingo. It's just another case of people not being able to swallow their pride. A manager that won the UEFA Cup and 2 La Liga's, one of the formations greatest exponents, which he is, stumbled upon it? Get fucking real. What whoppers.

[aws]

I think the lack of a pacy forward prevented him playing this in the past - far more than the Gerrard 'problem' as described. Benitez bought Crouch, Morientes and Kuyt to play as centre forwards, not for a 4-2-3-1.

The word 'stumbled' appears to grate with some people's over active sensitivity glands re Rafa. Let's use the phrase 'decided, after trying lots of other formations'. For fuck's sake, there's nothing wrong with changing one's mind when it looks like you're heading down a blind alley. I admire Benitez for that.

 

I think the reason people get their hackles up about the word "stumbled" is because it's on a par with comments like Gray's "Benitez got lucky again" and whereas you might expect that from some Sky muppet you wouldn't really expect it from someone who professes to support the club.

[Rashid]

Bingo. It's just another case of people not being able to swallow their pride. A manager that won the UEFA Cup and 2 La Liga's, one of the formations greatest exponents, which he is, stumbled upon it? Get fucking real. What whoppers.

 

I still cannot believe people are peddling this shit. Rafa did not use 4-3-3 at Valencia. He played with wingers... Vicente on the left, Rufete on the right. He also used two Central Midfield players - one who used to sit deep - Albelda, and one who used to attack and score a lot of goals - Baraja. The other player in the centre was Aimar - who certainly is not a central midfielder but a link man - it was 4-4-1-1.

 

Stop calling people names as if you have some kind of superior intelligence, in the real world you don't mate.

[Guest TK-421]

Valencia was 4-2-3-1, everyone knows that.

[stringvest]

But people also get annoyed by posts such as Dirk's above, which refuses to accept that using this formation is not the shuddering climax of some sort of masterplan than Benitez has been aiming for since he got here. Benitez did NOT set out to play this formation when he pitched up here. If he had, then he would have bought the sort of forwards that would give him the possibility. He chose not to.

[Dirk]

But people also get annoyed by posts such as Dirk's above, which refuses to accept that using this formation is not the shuddering climax of some sort of masterplan than Benitez has been aiming for since he got here. Benitez did NOT set out to play this formation when he pitched up here. If he had, then he would have bought the sort of forwards that would give him the possibility. He chose not to.

 

It costs a lot of money to buy the talent to play that formation. It doesn't work with cloggers.

[Dirk]

Valencia was 4-2-3-1, everyone knows that.

 

Call them “Pool-encia”. “It’s more or less the same system,” Benitez said of the 4-2-3-1 pattern he has settled upon, with Gerrard supporting Fernando Torres centrally, and Dirk Kuyt and Ryan Babel augmenting the attack in wide areas. With his Valencia players such as Mista, Vicente, Rufete, Pablo Aimar, John Carew and Miguel Angulo filled these four attacking roles

 

Rafa Benitez hopes Valencia style will turn tide | Liverpool - Times Online

 

Is Rafa lying, Rash?

[stringvest]

It costs a lot of money to buy the talent to play that formation. It doesn't work with cloggers.

 

Not an appropriate turn of phrase, given that both our wide players are Dutch ;)

 

It seems to be working ok at the moment, and we're not blessed with much talent in the wide positions. Babel may come good, and does offer flashes of brilliance, but for now his first touch is often poor and wasteful, his final ball can be the same, and he doesn't drive down the line often enough. It's all potential with him at the moment. Kuyt is a clogger, and is not going to improve. The thing that makes it work is Torres.

[Guest TK-421]

There was a bit more, dare I say it, rotation of the front four at Valencia than there has been so far with us, but otherwise a very similar system.

[Dirk]

More from that article I just posted.

 

Even more strangely, considering in terms of his delay in going to 4-2-3-1, Benitez prophesied the remodelling of the wide player when he was a young coach at Real Madrid. “I have an article from maybe 15 years ago which I wrote in a Spanish newspaper , El Mundo,and the title was, ‘Where are the Wingers?’ I was in the academy of Real Madrid and Vicente Del Bosque was its head.We used to talk: ‘Where are the wingers?’ The teams were all playing 4-3-3 and were trying to find players to put in the wide areas. They were difficult to find so you had to create them,” Benitez said. For “Pool-encia” to move to the next level, he needs more goals from Babel and Kuyt, who have scored eight and nine for the season respectively. “But if Torres scores 30 goals maybe you don’t need your wingers scoring,” he said with a smile.

 

Does this put to bed the idea that he stumbled upon it?

 

Rafa Benitez hopes Valencia style will turn tide | Liverpool - Times Online

[aws]

More from that article I just posted.

 

Even more strangely, considering in terms of his delay in going to 4-2-3-1, Benitez prophesied the remodelling of the wide player when he was a young coach at Real Madrid. “I have an article from maybe 15 years ago which I wrote in a Spanish newspaper , El Mundo,and the title was, ‘Where are the Wingers?’ I was in the academy of Real Madrid and Vicente Del Bosque was its head.We used to talk: ‘Where are the wingers?’ The teams were all playing 4-3-3 and were trying to find players to put in the wide areas. They were difficult to find so you had to create them,” Benitez said. For “Pool-encia” to move to the next level, he needs more goals from Babel and Kuyt, who have scored eight and nine for the season respectively. “But if Torres scores 30 goals maybe you don’t need your wingers scoring,” he said with a smile.

 

Does this put to bed the idea that he stumbled upon it?

 

Rafa Benitez hopes Valencia style will turn tide | Liverpool - Times Online

 

Probably not. He's obviously lying to cover up the fact that as a manager he knows nowt.