Torres

[theRedHorse]

People get quite upset when Gerrard and Carra get stick after a game where the whole (or atleast most of the) team is crap.

 

But there's a reason they get the stick and its the same as the Issues earlier with the Ownership/Manager Debacle.

 

People expect them to lead the team by example in these big games and be hyped and show some "excess" passion to get the rest of the team going. Not to faff around in the tunnel with your mates or stroll around the pitch with your hands in your pockets. We want to see, that you mean business. Lets have an early 50MPH tackle to set the mood, Clap your hands, G-up your team mates, I don't know.

Maybe Rafa expects them to be calm, and maybe those are their orders but It doesn't benefit a game like this.

 

The same was true for the Owners/Manager thing. We all expected them to back the Manager publically because they're the players that the supporters relate to most, and we certainly don't expect them to allegedly moan to the press.

 

Maybe the expectations on them is unfair, but It's slightly annoying to see them not perform to the standards they should be in these big games.

[Mr.SB]

Why doesn't Dave U just ban motherfuckers who give him shit?

 

If this was my site there'd be nobody left on these forums but me, and I'd amuse myself into the wee small hours by looking through old threads where every poster comes up with a line through their name.

 

 

BANNED

 

I think its great that the BAN option is taken very seriously on this forum. It really does encourage open debate.

 

People might argue with DaveU about his football knowledge or hair but I think we need to applaud the very liberal approach to the handling of this forum.

 

ps: I know you were just kidding S31.

[Kevin D]

Why has he only got 2 away goals though? He is class.

[Mr T]

People get quite upset when Gerrard and Carra get stick after a game where the whole (or atleast most of the) team is crap.

 

But there's a reason they get the stick and its the same as the Issues earlier with the Ownership/Manager Debacle.

 

People expect them to lead the team by example in these big games and be hyped and show some "excess" passion to get the rest of the team going. Not to faff around in the tunnel with your mates or stroll around the pitch with your hands in your pockets. We want to see, that you mean business. Lets have an early 50MPH tackle to set the mood, Clap your hands, G-up your team mates, I don't know.

Maybe Rafa expects them to be calm, and maybe those are their orders but It doesn't benefit a game like this.

 

The same was true for the Owners/Manager thing. We all expected them to back the Manager publically because they're the players that the supporters relate to most, and we certainly don't expect them to allegedly moan to the press.

 

Maybe the expectations on them is unfair, but It's slightly annoying to see them not perform to the standards they should be in these big games.

 

Good post.

[HBenn]

I think that some perspective is needed. Watching the game yesterday, upto the sending off and Rooney's chance I thought that we had looked relatively comfortable. I thought that their goal was another typical scrabby goal by United against us. After the goal it was a different game and unfortunately United are a top quality team so it would always be very difficult. Saying that though, had Torres tucked that chance away in about the 67th minute it may have been a different game and everybody this morning would be thinking how far we have progressed. Yet they did us again from a set piece, which they always seem to do and that needs to be addressed.

 

The big problem before and after the goal was that we never really hurt them. I think that a lot of that boils down to our defensive attitude. The crux of the problem for me is that in all the games that we play against the top teams we do not believe we can beat them. We don't have the belief that we can just go out and play our own game and beat the top teams. We go to these top teams and we don’t play well because we are worried about what they can do to us but not what we can do to them. That makes the players edgy and nervous.

 

When I look at the United team compared to ours, I think that they do edge us. They have more quality players in attack than us and that gives their other players the confidence to go at teams and not feel the need to try and contain. If you take Ronaldo out of their team and they came to Anfield I think they would play exactly the way we do. They have spent big money to get a number of these players but on a side point, the example of Ronaldo is probably an area where we have made the greatest progress. Under Houllier and Thompson they had to be made aware of Ronaldo but I believe nowadays that Benitez would be well aware of who he was and would have already been trying to put a deal in place.

 

Rafa made some points before the game about last Summer being the first time that he felt that he could compete at the top table for players and if DIC could get in and he is allowed to buy some top attacking players to go with Torres I think that we will be transformed. I think that we would see a team that goes out and takes the game more to the opposition because they would have the belief that even if the game opens up we would have the quality to turn them over.

 

Looking at the team say over the last 18 months I think there is real reasons for optimism. Look at the players who come into our team in that time. Agger, who for my money is sorely missed in these big games, Skrtel and Torres. Babel is starting to look very promising. All players that are good technically and improve our level.

 

Overall, therefore while I was gutted yesterday that we didn't get anything from the game I thought there was a fair amount to be positive about in the first 70 mins. The last 20 mins, against 10 men they did hurt us, but for me the scoreline exaggerated the real difference between the two teams. If they feel that they are now a million miles ahead of us then fine but for me we are not to far behind and with one or two more top quality attacking players we could get the better of them.

[Dicko]

He's not my 'mate', and the Reina one was the reason for this thread. I wasn't throwing a strop either, just making a point. But you carry on bitching about all the players.

 

Have a look at the forum, and all the posts about individual players slagging them off. If those players are so shit how come a lot of people were so confident about getting a result?

I read what you said in the thread about Carragher if this wasn't a response to that thread then apologies.

 

Where have I bitched about all the players? I haven't. I've said one player (Carragher) has been poor this season, it's an opinion it doesn't make it fact, but more and more people are of the opinion it's true, that he has been poor. That's not to say his form won't come back or that there have been no mitigating circumstances Agger's injury and playing with a new partner for example. Nor does it mean we should get rid, but it can be pointed out.

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I wasn't confident before the match, they are a better team which cost far in excess of our own and were 11 (now 14) points clear that doesn't happen by accident. And we seem to have an inferiority complex about playing them.

[dave u]

I read what you said in the thread about Carragher if this wasn't a response to that thread then apologies.

 

Where have I bitched about all the players? I haven't. I've said one player (Carragher) has been poor this season, it's an opinion it doesn't make it fact, but more and more people are of the opinion it's true, that he has been poor. That's not to say his form won't come back or that there have been no mitigating circumstances Agger's injury and playing with a new partner for example. Nor does it mean we should get rid, but it can be pointed out.

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I wasn't confident before the match, they are a better team which cost far in excess of our own and were 11 (now 14) points clear that doesn't happen by accident. And we seem to have an inferiority complex about playing them.

 

Fair enough, you haven't been bitching about players, so I take that back. My problem was the tone of your post, and the accusation I was 'acting like a baby' because 'my mate' was being criticised. Like I say, I started this thread after seeing the Reina one as well as numerous others (ironically not the Carragher one, which I actually read and posted on AFTER I'd started this thread)

 

He gets no preferential treatment from me, and if you look at the star man awards from all my match reports, as well as the man of the match threads on here after every game I'm sure you'll see that.

 

I just think it's ludicrous how some have turned on him after a few sub par performances. He was poor yesterday, but Skrtel was much worse in my opinion. So seeing people so willing to fuck him off for a partnership in which the two players have a) never played together, and b) one of them is very much unproven and has made several errors already in the short amount of time he's been playing for us, makes me despair.

 

I like Skrtel, he's promising and has done ok so far, but he's no Jamie Carragher yet. Not even remotely close.

 

I agree entirely about the inferiority complex we have against them, I've said the same thing in the blog piece I did this morning.

[Red Nick]

He's going back to Spain anyway to finance the new Stadium

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tounge in cheek (before anyone goes Ballistic)

[StevieH]

I think Carragher has looked frustrated this season which is why he has given away so many penalties & hasn't always looked so assured. He is still in top notch condition and is a great defender. I just think we need to secure 4th spot, hopefully win the CL and start again next season.

[theRedHorse]

Good post.

 

Ta..

[dave u]

I don't know you either. I've only joined recently but but I've been reading your comments since teletext, and now on here for a good few years and you are clearly not one of the "All is rosy in the garden" sort. But we have played a team we need to measure up to, and have fallen short yet again. it's no surprise that people are going to comment on the players who havn't been on their game for a while now. Carra is one and so I've asked the question will Rafa consider Skirtel and Agger as his pairing in the future to see what the forum thinks Rafa will do. I think it's a fair question. I'm not hammering or slating carra, in fact I don't see anyone doing that. Carra has had the benifet of the doubt all season and he deserves that, but he shouldn't be untouchable. Threads about Alonso don't get this kind of attention.

 

I've also supported Reina in that thread and am not one for getting on players backs.

 

I actually think the main reason we lost yesterday is due to Man Utd paying off refs. I might be turning into a conspiracy nut, but it's just happening too much now with the Mancs.

 

I've read that thread again, and looked at who posted what, and you weren't the reason for the 'shakes head and leaves thread' comment. The only problem I have with what you posted was the timing of it, and because I was already frustrated at seeing threads on so many other players. It was a couple of the replies to your thread that really did my head in, as opposed to the original post itself.

 

People are going way overboard on Skrtel I think. He's promising, but he's made mistakes and was awful yesterday. I like the lad, he's a good player and will hopefully become a great one. Some people seem to have convinced themselves he already is though. Would they be saying that had Ibrahimovic punished that sloppy pass in the San Siro? He did the same thing at Anfield recently too. Like I say, he's promising, but he isn't there yet.

 

Carra isn't in the best of form, but he hasn't been as bad as some are making out either. He's been inconsistent more than anything, he's had some brilliant games and some poor ones. The same can be said of most of the team, and that's one of our biggest problems.

 

As for his 'poor distribution', it's a myth. Does he overdo the long ball? Yes, I'd say he definitely does and it can be frustrating. But I've seen him pick out some fucking brilliant passes and crossfield balls, but that never seems to get noticed.

 

It seems daft to say, as he's as mentally strong as they come, but he looks like he's low on confidence to me, and at times he's looked physically shattered as well.

[bobhorse]

Look we got beat by the Champions when down to 10 men away from home no big deal we are not good enough to beat them yet but we are getting closer

 

I can't see the use of Crouch in the squad if he isnt in the team?

He might as well be sold and a player who will play be signed in his place

 

That goes for a few players Vorrinin and Carson naming but two each year we have them on the books but fail to use them there value goes down to the club and i think we all agree there are positions in the team that we are short and the fees gained from player sales could strengthen those positions and close the gap still further

[StevieH]

I think that Carragher and Gerrard are so desperate to win the league, and with each season that passes the more frustrated they get, hence the inconsistencies.

[Mr T]

I've read that thread again, and looked at who posted what, and you weren't the reason for the 'shakes head and leaves thread' comment. The only problem I have with what you posted was the timing of it, and because I was already frustrated at seeing threads on so many other players. It was a couple of the replies to your thread that really did my head in, as opposed to the original post itself.

 

People are going way overboard on Skrtel I think. He's promising, but he's made mistakes and was awful yesterday. I like the lad, he's a good player and will hopefully become a great one. Some people seem to have convinced themselves he already is though. Would they be saying that had Ibrahimovic punished that sloppy pass in the San Siro? He did the same thing at Anfield recently too. Like I say, he's promising, but he isn't there yet.

 

Carra isn't in the best of form, but he hasn't been as bad as some are making out either. He's been inconsistent more than anything, he's had some brilliant games and some poor ones. The same can be said of most of the team, and that's one of our biggest problems.

 

As for his 'poor distribution', it's a myth. Does he overdo the long ball? Yes, I'd say he definitely does and it can be frustrating. But I've seen him pick out some fucking brilliant passes and crossfield balls, but that never seems to get noticed.

 

It seems daft to say, as he's as mentally strong as they come, but he looks like he's low on confidence to me, and at times he's looked physically shattered as well.

 

I've not seen anyone go overboard on him with positive praise. The only person to go overboard was Bascombe when he ripped the lad to shreds in his debut game because Rafa had the audacity to play Carragher at right back.

 

Most people I've seen have said he's been fairly solid but lacks experience and is a doubt aerially. Not much has changed there then.

 

I've said myself that I think he should be bedded in with Agger over the next 18 months. Seems logical otherwise what's the point of signing a young centre back for a record fee?

[dave u]

Read the posts on here about him. Some people are going way overboard, and I've seen people saying him and Agger is our strongest partnership. I can't be arsed digging out posts, but they do exist, I've seen them!

[drewy]

Isn't there a thread with a vote on this very subject?

 

I'm a lazy cunt.

[StevieH]

There was a quote from an ex team mate of Skrtel's at Zenit St Petersburg saying that he has huge potential, but is still liable to make costly errors occassionally and we have seen that since he arrived at Anfield. He has looked promising and is a big, strong mobile lad, but he made a huge error away in the San Siro and got away with it and he left Rooney in the 2nd half and got out of jail as Reina made a great save. I actually felt that Wes Brown fouled him for the first goal as he was pushing him down.

[rebel23]

Read the posts on here about him. Some people are going way overboard, and I've seen people saying him and Agger is our strongest partnership. I can't be arsed digging out posts, but they do exist, I've seen them!

 

they've never played together so how can anyone say that? it's stupid

 

people are just frustrated that Carra has conceeded penalties and nearly conceeded penalties in important league games and if it continues im afraid they will want him out of the team, whether Agger and Skrtel can do the job or if someone else will have to be purchased is open to question

[05 Milan]

People have gone overboard with Skrtel just like some do with every new signing. They praise all the positives and they ignore the negatives, to cut the new player some slack. If he continues making so many mistakes as he has done so far though, his popularity will start to fade pretty quickly. I think he'll turn out very good, but he's not ready to be a regular starter.

[Spy Bee]

Where are these loads of mistakes he making? Apart from the Havant game and the sloppy pass against Inter?

[drewy]

The Liverpool Way - View Poll Results

[Dicko]

Fair enough, you haven't been bitching about players, so I take that back. My problem was the tone of your post, and the accusation I was 'acting like a baby' because 'my mate' was being criticised. Like I say, I started this thread after seeing the Reina one as well as numerous others (ironically not the Carragher one, which I actually read and posted on AFTER I'd started this thread)

 

He gets no preferential treatment from me, and if you look at the star man awards from all my match reports, as well as the man of the match threads on here after every game I'm sure you'll see that.

 

I just think it's ludicrous how some have turned on him after a few sub par performances. He was poor yesterday, but Skrtel was much worse in my opinion. So seeing people so willing to fuck him off for a partnership in which the two players have a) never played together, and b) one of them is very much unproven and has made several errors already in the short amount of time he's been playing for us, makes me despair.

 

I like Skrtel, he's promising and has done ok so far, but he's no Jamie Carragher yet. Not even remotely close.

 

I agree entirely about the inferiority complex we have against them, I've said the same thing in the blog piece I did this morning.

Fair enough mate can't say anything fairer than what you've said there.

[Rashid]

As for his 'poor distribution', it's a myth.

 

Totally incorrect, Carra's distribution is one of the worse I have ever seen... poor passer, not much composure on the ball and under pressure he ALWAYS hoofs it. Look back through yesterday, the first time he got the ball he skied it 60 yards up in air.

[dave u]

Under pressure he always hoofs it? Yeah, I'd probably accept that, as he does adopt a safety first attitude 99% of the time.. But don't tell me he's a poor passer as he isn't. Like I say, there's times he overdoes the long ball, but he's also produced some brilliant passes, usually crossfield from right to left.

[Rashid]

Under pressure he always hoofs it? Yeah, I'd probably accept that, as he does adopt a safety first attitude 99% of the time.. But don't tell me he's a poor passer as he isn't. Like I say, there's times he overdoes the long ball, but he's also produced some brilliant passes, usually crossfield from right to left.

 

"Overdoes it" is probably the understatement of the year Dave. He does it 80% of the time unless he is passing it back or sideways to his partner.

 

He is a poor passer when the pass required requires a little bit of creativeness. If he had that and pace to his game he would be the best in the world so no point going on about the "perfect player" but I just feel his hoofing gives the inititive back to the opposition.

 

If I was an opposing manager I would say "put pressure on Carragher when he has the ball and let them play it wide all game and you will get the ball back in double quick time"...