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Dougie Do'ins

Rafa and Hicks an unlikely alliance ?

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Maybe Benitez has another agenda? Maybe he's actually very settled where he's living and he's stated on numerous occassions how happy his family are here. If he thought that was in jeopardy, who knows what he would do. That might be bollocks, but to assume hiss motives are purely professional might be a bit naive.

 

The thing is, I see him as a man of great integrity. That's why I asked Dave U what the score was re his alliance. I hope he is being a sneaky bastard for the greater good. As Red Nick would say 'All will be revealed'.

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Maybe Benitez has another agenda? Maybe he's actually very settled where he's living and he's stated on numerous occassions how happy his family are here. If he thought that was in jeopardy, who knows what he would do. That might be bollocks, but to assume hiss motives are purely professional might be a bit naive.

 

It is still the same motive though isn't it? If he want LFC to succeed because he likes it so much here and doesn't want to move, then he still want us to succeed. That's not a dodgy motive at all in my books.

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But he wants to work for Liverpool. Money is no longer an issue for Rafa.

 

I agree that having success with Liverpool is his prime motivator, and he is desperate to hang onto the job for that reason. The fact that his wife Montse also seems very, very settled in Liverpool is also important.

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Rafas in a very powerful position to negotiate what he wants.

 

Rafa to Hicks : Yes ill back you but i want X player and Y player and Z money to build the team as i desire. Youll get to be a part of the wonderful club that is Liverpool, and my backing, for sure, yes ?

 

Rafa to DIC : You can see what im building, give me the money and the players for sure, yes ?

 

 

Rafas in a win win situation

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No idea, I assume it's because it's in his best interests if he wants to keep his job.

 

What I don't like about it all is that Rafa spent the best part of six months telling everyone off the record how bad the yanks were and how they needed to fuck off. Obviously that all came to a head over the Klinsmann thing, and the fans took to the streets to support him against the owners.

 

Then Hicks lets him know his job isn't under threat anymore, and Rafa is putting out messages to the same people that maybe it isn't such a bad thing if Hicks stays after all. What's changed? As far as I can see, the only thing that has changed is his own job security.

 

The club is fucked if Hicks gets control, so how come Rafa is in his corner? Maybe he's got a good reason and there's stuff we don't know. I hope so, as otherwise he's letting down a lot of people.

 

I honestly can't see that he has any alternative. He believes that he can do the business at Liverpool and wants the best chance and most money to do it. I don't think he really gives a shit who is running the club as long as they leave him alone and give him money.

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It is still the same motive though isn't it? If he want LFC to succeed because he likes it so much here and doesn't want to move, then he still want us to succeed. That's not a dodgy motive at all in my books.

 

But one would have to accede the point that Benitez's view about "what is best for Liverpool" is rather subjective, in that he sees himself as being crucial to that success.

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No idea, I assume it's because it's in his best interests if he wants to keep his job.

 

What I don't like about it all is that Rafa spent the best part of six months telling everyone off the record how bad the yanks were and how they needed to fuck off. Obviously that all came to a head over the Klinsmann thing, and the fans took to the streets to support him against the owners.

 

Then Hicks lets him know his job isn't under threat anymore, and Rafa is putting out messages to the same people that maybe it isn't such a bad thing if Hicks stays after all. What's changed? As far as I can see, the only thing that has changed is his own job security.

 

The club is fucked if Hicks gets control, so how come Rafa is in his corner? Maybe he's got a good reason and there's stuff we don't know. I hope so, as otherwise he's letting down a lot of people.

 

 

people do desparate things when their job is on the line.

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Rafas in a very powerful position to negotiate what he wants.

 

Rafa to Hicks : Yes ill back you but i want X player and Y player and Z money to build the team as i desire. Youll get to be a part of the wonderful club that is Liverpool, and my backing, for sure, yes ?

 

Rafa to DIC : You can see what im building, give me the money and the players for sure, yes ?

 

 

Rafas in a win win situation

 

 

Rafa has no say whatsoever. DIC or Hicks will just sack him if they feel he is fucking them about. These levels of businessmen have no respect for their juniors. I want Rafa to stay, but the owners, whoever they are, will say you've had 4 years in charge and are finishing on the same points as Houllier had when he was sacked. Rafa'll be gone and we'll be starting from scratch again.

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Why doesnt Rafa just shut up and say nothing ! He must know that we hate Hicks so keep your mouth shut for once.

If he is only looking after his own interests and not the interest of the club he can go right now.

He has always said he is just focusing on the team so why couldnt he just say that again.

Sorry Rafa but if you are siding with them greedy yankees you can do one right now and stop stabbing us fans in the back.

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But one would have to accede the point that Benitez's view about "what is best for Liverpool" is rather subjective, in that he sees himself as being crucial to that success.

 

That I agree with, and have no problems with. At least it's the same goal we as fans have, and that is to win.

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In a situation as murky as this, you're going to get some pretty strange and unsavoury alliances being formed. That's business. That's politics. That's where we're stuck at the moment.

 

Of all the parties involved, the manager's the only one I would have said (until now) had the club's best interests at heart, but now more than ever it's obvious that the only people who can be trusted to do what's right for the club are the fans - which makes it all the more important that we support the idea of a fans' buy out. We're not children - and we have to stop acting like we are.

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Not at all. He will get his money if he's sacked. Not only that, but he will be able to get a new job, making even more money in the same period of time. And he will get another job, and in a big team aswell. If money were his motive he would pray for getting sacked.

 

That is a good big pile of assumptions you've put into the above.

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That is a good big pile of assumptions you've put into the above.

 

In sharp contrast to which posts on this thread exactly?

 

It's a discussion. Please post something without assumptions on this issue and I will listen (or read, more like it).

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It is still the same motive though isn't it? If he want LFC to succeed because he likes it so much here and doesn't want to move, then he still want us to succeed. That's not a dodgy motive at all in my books.

 

To me, they are seperate. There's no doubt he wants us to succeed but if his first priority is his family (as it should be) and they decide they're not happy then he'll leave. As they seem very settled here, that may be his prime reason for staying. Don't get wrong I'm just summasing here, but if his Wife has told him to sort the problems with his Boss 'cos she likes it here, then that's him putting his own personal agenda before the best interests of the club.

 

As I've said, that might be (probably is) bollocks but it's just an example of why he may be siding with Hicks. If Hicks leaves then he can deal with DIC at later date.

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I do think Rafa is being clever, I do not think he can be firmly in DICs camp and still be able to approach Hicks looking for the freedom to sign players in the summer, I imagine that process has already started and the short-term (I hope) alliance with Hicks achieves that.

 

I might be being blithely naive but that is my last defence mechanism in these dark days.

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It's Rafa's way of saying to his players that he's sticking around come what may. He lost his authority and lost some players because of it. Funny how the performances have picked up lately.

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No idea, I assume it's because it's in his best interests if he wants to keep his job.

 

What I don't like about it all is that Rafa spent the best part of six months telling everyone off the record how bad the yanks were and how they needed to fuck off. Obviously that all came to a head over the Klinsmann thing, and the fans took to the streets to support him against the owners.

 

Then Hicks lets him know his job isn't under threat anymore, and Rafa is putting out messages to the same people that maybe it isn't such a bad thing if Hicks stays after all. What's changed? As far as I can see, the only thing that has changed is his own job security.

 

The club is fucked if Hicks gets control, so how come Rafa is in his corner? Maybe he's got a good reason and there's stuff we don't know. I hope so, as otherwise he's letting down a lot of people.

 

But its alright for the guy who puts out these stories about the various alliances - namely Chris Bascombe - to make sure that he says and does whatever his bosses require.

 

Chris is a good guy, but his judgments are not correct. He works for a newspaper which Rafa labelled as one of the two that are not trusted. He cannot get interviews with Rafa.

 

 

Rafa has not been telling everybody that its a good idea if Hicks stays. He's refused to comment when asked for an opinion or when asked to influence supporters.

 

He was heavily criticised for even alluding to problems in his press conference about training. Now he is simply reporting, when asked, if the owners have congratulated him and the team or recent wins.

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I seriously think everybody is getting carried away with this. People adding 2 and 2, and making 5. The trouble is, this kind of nonsense can snowball and start becoming accepted as fact.

 

Who is the one person who first blew the whistle on the Yanks? Rafa.

Who is the one person in the middle, trying to keep the team on track, and its main assets (players) secured? Rafa.

Who has publically proclaimed that Hicks is the correct person to lead the club, and is preferable to DIC/fan consortium/green men from Mars? Not Rafa.

 

As I said before, Rafa is now simply deadbatting any media queries on off-pitch matters with "owners are in constant contact. They are being supportive. Thanks for asking!"

 

I argued this before:

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/1017877-post682.html

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/1016526-post594.html

 

Look, none of us are "on the inside". If we're going to try to deduce peoples rationale for doing things, we should do so in a logical manner.

 

1. Rafa knows that the only way he can remain Liverpool manager in the medium (not to mention long) -term is to be successful. Challenging for League titles, and European Cups.

 

2. Part of what is needed to achieve this is continuous investment in the team. Even if, in a season or 2, we are (in the League) on a par with ManUre, we would still need to spend to keep pace.

 

3. Even if you've been living under a rock this past year, you would know that the ability to invest in the team, while LFC is Yank owned, is limited at best. Not only will we be outspent by the other big 3, but also by Villa, Spurs, Man City, etc.

 

4. Ergo, the task of making Liverpool perennial League challengers, while under the Yanks, is almost impossible.

 

5. Here we have an alternative party, looking to takeover, who DO have funds to invest (team, stadium, etc). Who DO have professional management acumen (one of Rafa's big bugbears, having had to deal with Parry all this time).

 

6. Everyone is assuming that DIC would replace Rafa straight away. Based on what? The most logical way to proceed, amidst all the turmoil, would be for the new owners to give Rafa at least a season, and then progress in a reasoned and thoughtful manner. Do people seriously think that the first thing DIC would want on their hands, immediately after a hostile, protracted and very public takeover, would be to trawl around Europe for a manager, while trying to keep a suddenly leaderless squad (full of Rafa's signings) intact?

 

7. Everyone is also similarly assuming that, even if Hicks is now cooing in Rafa's ear "buddy, you're manager for life as long as I'm here", that Rafa is stupid enough to actually believe that? From ANY owner, not to mention the odious Hicks?

 

 

Is it not unreasonable to suggest that, after having DONE HIS JOB, and blown the whistle on the Yankee looters, Rafa is now trying to keep his head below water, keep the team ticking, and also showing our potential (PLEASE GOD!) new owners that he (Rafa) is capable of presenting a united front to the media, and should not be automatically looked upon as a "loose cannon" (which would be viewed with distrust by the Sheikh, Ansari et al).

 

And if I AM being so unreasonable, please show me how? Seriously.

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I seriously think everybody is getting carried away with this. People adding 2 and 2, and making 5. The trouble is, this kind of nonsense can snowball and start becoming accepted as fact.

 

Who is the one person who first blew the whistle on the Yanks? Rafa.

Who is the one person in the middle, trying to keep the team on track, and its main assets (players) secured? Rafa.

Who has publically proclaimed that Hicks is the correct person to lead the club, and is preferable to DIC/fan consortium/green men from Mars? Not Rafa.

 

As I said before, Rafa is now simply deadbatting any media queries on off-pitch matters with "owners are in constant contact. They are being supportive. Thanks for asking!"

 

I argued this before:

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/1017877-post682.html

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/1016526-post594.html

 

Look, none of us are "on the inside". If we're going to try to deduce peoples rationale for doing things, we should do so in a logical manner.

 

1. Rafa knows that the only way he can remain Liverpool manager in the medium (not to mention long) -term is to be successful. Challenging for League titles, and European Cups.

 

2. Part of what is needed to achieve this is continuous investment in the team. Even if, in a season or 2, we are (in the League) on a par with ManUre, we would still need to spend to keep pace.

 

3. Even if you've been living under a rock this past year, you would know that the ability to invest in the team, while LFC is Yank owned, is limited at best. Not only will we be outspent by the other big 3, but also by Villa, Spurs, Man City, etc.

 

4. Ergo, the task of making Liverpool perennial League challengers, while under the Yanks, is almost impossible.

 

5. Here we have an alternative party, looking to takeover, who DO have funds to invest (team, stadium, etc). Who DO have professional management acumen (one of Rafa's big bugbears, having had to deal with Parry all this time).

 

6. Everyone is assuming that DIC would replace Rafa straight away. Based on what? The most logical way to proceed, amidst all the turmoil, would be for the new owners to give Rafa at least a season, and then progress in a reasoned and thoughtful manner. Do people seriously think that the first thing DIC would want on their hands, immediately after a hostile, protracted and very public takeover, would be to trawl around Europe for a manager, while trying to keep a suddenly leaderless squad (full of Rafa's signings) intact?

 

7. Everyone is also similarly assuming that, even if Hicks is now cooing in Rafa's ear "buddy, you're manager for life as long as I'm here", that Rafa is stupid enough to actually believe that? From ANY owner, not to mention the odious Hicks?

 

 

Is it not unreasonable to suggest that, after having DONE HIS JOB, and blown the whistle on the Yankee looters, Rafa is now trying to keep his head below water, keep the team ticking, and also showing our potential (PLEASE GOD!) new owners that he (Rafa) is capable of presenting a united front to the media, and should not be automatically looked upon as a "loose cannon" (which would be viewed with distrust by the Sheikh, Ansari et al).

 

And if I AM being so unreasonable, please show me how? Seriously.

 

 

Listen hear, sonny. One does the counting round here.

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