Reds in refinancing blow

[TheDrowningMan]

Spot on for me, I just don't see how you can look for four years for investment and yet manage to turn up the worst deal in the history of English football.

 

It's like spending four years looking for your dream home and buying a house with subsidance.

 

As for Bascombe's piece, shit can change quickly when it comes to fickle finances, I wish we could read his insights on a daily basis then I wouldn't need to worry about which way was up.

 

Moores is a pretty hardcore Everton fan. That became obvious a long time ago.

[rek]

.....

 

You can moan all you like about the new owners but the Devil cant come into your house unless invited.

 

Thank you Mr Rick Parry and Mr David Moores you have managed to kill Liverpool Football Club.

 

All this talk about 'source inside Anfield says they want them out' - fucking great but you shouldnt have let them in in the first place.

 

I know it's hard Coop, but try to keep that "hope in your heart" mate ...easier said than done i know..I'm not even sleeping properly at the moment. I can't ever remember feeling so helpless before.

 

I still think if Moores had any honour at all he would very publicly resign his life presidency and put in an application for a season ticket.

[Ring of Fire]

I know it's hard Coop, but try to keep that "hope in your heart" mate ...easier said than done i know..I'm not even sleeping properly at the moment. I can't ever remember feeling so helpless before.

 

I still think if Moores had any honour at all he would very publicly resign his life presidency and put in an application for a season ticket.

 

I was surprised Moores and Parry made it in and out of Anfield last night alive.

[Anny Road]

My feeling is that this is how business at this level works. G+H are turning the screw on DIC and attempting to get the maximum from them. Big bucks are at stake and it is a game of high stakes poker.

If it wasn't so close to home it would be fascinating. I still feel DIC have enough information about the Yanks finances to hold thier nerve otherwise they would never have come back in.

If it costs them 50m more than they want that is a years running costs for the bosses boat. I don't think they would want to be gazzumped by the Yanks twice in a year for the sake of a few quid.

[theRedHorse]

I was surprised Moores and Parry made it in and out of Anfield last night alive.

 

Momo? :whistle:

[billybonzo]

Momo? :whistle:

 

Momo?:whistle:

[RoboRiise]

We were sold a year ago, and from that point on we stopped being a team that would ever be owned by a supporter, a supporter who was willing to put his own money in without worrying about getting any of it back in any hurry. Unless a fan gets extremely rich one day, we'll now always be owned by people who want to make money out of us.

 

DIC are going to want to make money out of us, directly and indirectly. But they've got the means to lend money, or provide money, without having to use most of the club's income to pay the loans back each year. That on its own is better than Hicks and Gillett, who'll leave us with very little to spend on maintaining the squad, even if we do well.

 

In hindsight, we shouldn't have been moaning about the big "M" on the Kop all those years ago, we should have been looking to get all the stands sponsored by someone. Get the stadium name itself sponsored, as horrible as it sounds. Done more tours that messed up pre-season a bit but got us loads of attention overseas. If we'd started doing that early enough, we might have been able to be self-sufficient, except for the stadium. And we might have been that bit stronger financially that we could have borrowed the money oruselves to get the new stadium built.

 

We can't go back to the old days, they've gone, sad as that is. I can't speak for everyone, but a lot of people don't want to be like Chelsea. If DIC do make a plan for seven years, they can make us self-sufficient in seven years and able to pay good money for players. You don't spend £18m on a Torres, with a five-year-contract, without working out how much he can bring back in through merchandising.

 

Hicks and Gillett didn't improve the ticket office, the merchandising, the shirt sponsor deal, and DIC might not either, but they're worth a try.

 

That's about as good a summary of the position as I've seen yet. Great post.

 

 

 

Imagine you're standing beside a river. There's a man with a gun on each side of the river. The man on your side says:

 

"I'm going to shoot you in three seconds, unless you jump in the river. If you jump in and then get out again on this side, I'll still shoot you. If you swim across the river, there's a 95% chance the guy on the other side will shoot you when you get out."

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm swimming.

[Ring of Fire]

Momo? :whistle:

 

In a word no and do not link me with that moron over a comment about 2 people who have seriously fucked our football club over and put it's future in serious jeopardy.

[WaltonRed]

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Liverpool | Liverpool duo bank on £350m loan

 

McNulty saying they think they'll get the loan.

[Ring of Fire]

From the Times - Oliver Kay

 

Liverpool now want their saviours to walk on alone

Less than a year after being welcomed with open arms, the club’s American owners are finding themselves the target for hostility

Oliver Kay

“Let our relationship and our performance speak for itself. We’re either going to satisfy you or disappoint you” – George Gillett Jr, Liverpool co-chairman

 

Say what you like about the people of Merseyside, but they are welcoming. If the time-worn image is of an inward-looking city, hostile to outsiders, it does not tally with the experience of the two American tycoons who bought Liverpool last February and, to their surprise and apparent humility, were instantly cast as saviours of what they called “this wonderful, storied franchise”. In the weeks that followed their arrival, the odd star-spangled banner was spotted on the Kop. On their regular visits to Merseyside, they were told to “keep up the good work”.

 

They were even applauded as they took their seats at the Champions League final in Athens. Liverpool had had time to get used to the idea of foreign ownership and Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr seemed to have their hearts in the right place. But over the course of a turbulent 12 months, warmth has given way to outright hostility. During the 2-2 draw at home to Aston Villa on Monday night, there were angry demonstrations and chants of “Get out of our club”.

 

Satisfied or disappointed? Emotions at Anfield run rather deeper than that at present. Now it is Dubai International Capital (DIC), gazumped by Hicks and Gillett a year ago, which is a would-be saviour. Most supporters are praying for a swift resolution — hopes that could sink or soar over the coming days, depending on whether Hicks succeeds or fails to stabilise his troubled regime with a £350 million refinancing plan — and for the Americans to ride off into the sunset, consigned to the briefest, if one of the most chaotic, chapters in the history of English football’s most successful club.

 

“It is about reaching the right conclusion for the next 100 years. You only sell the family silver once” — Rick Parry, Liverpool chief executive

 

There had been no shortage of potential buyers for Liverpool. Hicks and Gillett were unlikely winners from a field that, as well as DIC, included Robert Kraft, a far wealthier American, Steve Morgan, the Merseyside-born property tycoon, Thaksin Shinawatra, who is now in charge of Manchester City, a Belfast-based multimillionaire, a pair of Norwegian chancers and even a couple of Hollywood-based movie moguls eager to get back to their Liverpudlian roots.

 

In December 2006, the race to own Liverpool seemed to be over as David Moores, the chairman, accepted DIC’s £80 million offer for his 51.6 per cent stake in the club, but, as the due diligence dragged on beyond Christmas into late January, doubts emerged about whether the deal would go ahead. As tensions grew, with DIC dithering and the club fretting as deadlines loomed over funding for their proposed new stadium, there was a breakdown in communication and DIC angrily pulled the plug on negotiations.

 

Almost by default, Gillett and Hicks — the latter having arrived on the scene at the last minute, seemingly as a silent partner — had secured ownership of Liverpool. Moores made more from the deal, £89.8 million, than he would have done had he sold to DIC, but he, Parry and their fellow directors agreed that Liverpool had found the “custodians” — note, not owners — that they were looking for.

 

“They don’t care about Rafa. They don’t care about fans. Liverpool Football Club is in the wrong hands” — the Kop

 

The first cracks appeared in the summer. Shortly after Rafael Benítez challenged them to get to work in the transfer market, there were rumours, initially denied, that the co-chairmen were clashing behind the scenes. It also became clear that their transfer plans did not match those of Benítez, whose net spending in the summer was a little less than £25 million, with the club-record purchase of Fernando Torres largely offset by sales.

 

“In asset terms, they might — might — be billionaires,” one source said, “but football clubs require cash. They don’t have anything like the resources to invest in it. And they know it.”

 

Then there was the fiasco over the new stadium. In July, amid fanfare, they unveiled their spectacular new plans for the facility in Stanley Park. By mid-December, those plans had been dropped because the projected cost had spiralled beyond £400 million. “It was ridiculous,” the source continued. “Anyone could see just looking at the plans that it wasn’t going to work. There was too much bent steel for one thing. Considering the lack of finance in place, it was simply unfundable.”

 

Behind the scenes, relations between Benítez and the owners were becoming fraught, with Foster Gillett, son of George, struggling to ease communication, not least because of his frequent absences from his Merseyside office. In mid-November, after a terse exchange of e-mails, the manager was told by Hicks to “quit talking and focus on preparing the team”.

 

That same week, Hicks and Gillett tried to line up Jürgen Klinsmann, the former Germany coach, as “an insurance option” against Benítez’s sudden departure to Real Madrid or, more likely, against his dismissal. In the eyes of Liverpool’s supporters, this was an act of betrayal.

 

“We’re a very very modest club. We don’t talk. We don’t boast. But we’re very professional” — Sir John Smith, Liverpool chairman 1973-90

 

There is something that they call “The Liverpool Way”. It is an ethos, an unwritten constitution based on principles such as humility, modesty and continuity. From the boardroom to the boot room, there was a shared belief that Liverpool were a club that should be seen and not heard. Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson would keep the club ticking over, while Bob Paisley and, later, Joe Fagan and Kenny Dalglish would get on quietly with the business of winning trophies.

 

Hicks comes from a different culture. When Benítez antagonised him in November, he rushed out statements that served only to expose the extent of the rift. While he may have had a point in saying it was “time for Rafa to quit talking”, that point was lost amid the shock at seeing a Liverpool chairman undermining the manager in this way.

 

That shock was surpassed only when Hicks confirmed that he and Gillett had held talks with Klinsmann. It may have been true, but why admit it rather than leave it in the realms of “speculation”?

 

For the past three months, Hicks has regularly proclaimed that he and Gillett will be announcing their refinancing deal with Royal Bank of Scotland “by the end of the week”. The end of the week always comes and goes with no deal in place. With pressure from the bank mounting, we are assured that this week will be different. We shall see.

 

The relationship between Liverpool and the club’s owners is at breaking point. Hicks firmly intends to proceed with the refinancing plan, despite growing uncertainty in the global financial markets, but that, according to one source, will merely postpone a sale to DIC. “It won’t solve the problems,” the source said. “It’s not about putting the right financial structure in place for Liverpool. It’s about giving them breathing space, so they can sell it on.”

 

For now, Hicks and Gillett struggle on, but, in stark contrast to the message from the club’s anthem and to the warm welcome they received less than a year ago, they walk very much alone.

 

Love to know who this source is? Kay's good friend from Anfield??

[theRedHorse]

In a word no and do not link me with that moron over a comment about 2 people who have seriously fucked our football club over and put it's future in serious jeopardy.

 

MOMO!

 

How you doing?

[Ring of Fire]

MOMO!

 

How you doing?

 

Fuck me. You've picked the wrong one pal.

 

Getting back to the serious debate, wasn't it commented yesterday that even if G&H got this refinancing agreed, then somehow it puts DIC in a better position. Correct me if I got that wrong.

[Ring of Fire]

Americans' refinancing of Liverpool in jeopardy

 

By Ian Herbert and Nick Harris

Published: 23 January 2008

 

Attempts by Liverpool's American owners to secure their position at the club appeared to be back in the balance last night, with suggestions that their refinancing plans have hit a snag and that their representative at Anfield is ready to return permanently to the US.

 

The refinancing of loans taken out by Tom Hicks and George Gillett to buy the club had appeared to be well on course 48 hours ago but anxiety created by Monday's London Stock Exchange crash, with knock-on effects in the US, has contributed to new levels of uncertainty and two independent sources have now also suggested that Foster Gillett, George Gillett's son and a crucial link between the Anfield hierarchy and the owners, might be ready to leave Liverpool.

 

Gillett's wife, Lauren, is thought to be unsettled on Merseyside and, though the couple have bought a house in Liverpool and are in the process of furnishing it, both sources suggest Gillett is prepared to leave.

 

Sources in Liverpool were unable to confirm that suggestion last night and Mr Gillett is currently away in the US, but his permanent absence would deprive the owners of the one individual whom the Liverpool manager, Rafael Benitez, has found he can work with in recent months. His departure might not have any effect on the refinancing but it might alter the willingness of his father, the American partner who is less committed to the refinancing, to persevere.

 

The £350m refinancing of the club's debts would strengthen the position of Hicks and Gillett, who find themselves with just two weeks left before an initial loan must be repaid. In the vacuum created by the uncertainty, the Arab Investment Group Dubai International Capital has been circling in the hope of buying out the Americans.

 

The picture surrounding the refinancing deal is by no means clear. Some London sources suggested that the deal would be completed by the end of the week, with possibly a day or two's slippage, and said there was no hitch. The word from Dallas, where Hicks is based, was also that the refinancing was going ahead.

 

But others indicated that while Mr Hicks is able to put up the money – reportedly £20m – that Royal Bank of Scotland has asked for, Mr Gillett may not. If so, the prevailing economic climate, with RBS shares taking a major hit on Monday, will not help the American position.

 

There were suggestions last week that the refinancing was reaching the "fine print", leading many to expect it to have concluded by now.

 

As the issue dragged on, there was more evidence that the lack of ready cash might affect the playing side. Benitez's frustrations at Anfield have stemmed from the Americans' insistence that he proceed with the players he already has rather than ask for money for more.

 

The club's unwillingness to secure Javier Mascherano on a permanent basis led the player's agent, Walter Tamer, to say on a radio programme in Argentina yesterday that "Liverpool have not made any offer at all to buy Mascherano and it's likely he will go to Italy next season".

 

Benitez's position was stabilised after the return to Merseyside of Foster Gillett, whose office at Melwood adjoins the Spaniard's. Benitez has said repeatedly that he values his presence and Hicks, in his controversial "Jürgen Klinsmann" statement last week, after it emerged that the owners had sounded out the former Germany manager about taking charge at Anfield, cited weekly Monday meetings between Benitez, Gillett and the Liverpool chief executive, Rick Parry, as an example of the club's new-found stability.

 

The animosity towards the Americans felt by Liverpool fans, who characterise them as piling debt on to the club like the Glazers have at Manchester United, will certainly make life uncomfortable for Gillett in Liverpool from now on.

 

The future of LFC under these bastards summed up in 1 paragraph.

[Ring of Fire]

Apologies, that was from the Independent.

[theRedHorse]

Fuck me. You've picked the wrong one pal.

 

Me thinks you doth protesteth too mucheth... :whistle:

 

 

im jus messing with ya lad...

[billybonzo]

In a word no and do not link me with that moron over a comment about 2 people who have seriously fucked our football club over and put it's future in serious jeopardy.

 

Momo? :whistle:

[Ring of Fire]

Momo? :whistle:

 

Could be? :whistle:

 

Had a sense of humour bypass last night lads. On with today and what will it bring.

[Victor-y]

Well it finally seems as the refinancing of loan soon is done. Supposed to be tomorrow. They succeed with it despite protests from LFC. What a happy family.....

 

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Liverpool | Liverpool duo bank on £350m loan

[hamstrung]

So they are/aren't getting the finance depending on which paper/website you read.

 

Thats clear, then.

[Ted]

According to The Post, it should be complete by Thursday/Friday. The refinancing that is.

[Victor-y]

Yeah ! I guess more than me wanted the refinancing deal to crash. Well, it seems then we`re stuck with them for a while...

[Judge]

That`s it.

 

Liverpool Football Club RIP.

 

I am so depressed I can`t work. God, I hate those two fuckers.

 

We must do something: boycott, war, anything - count me in!

[TommyW]

thing is without refinancing they have less than two weeks to find a buyer (when the inital loan is due for repayment) this hardly gives them the upper hand in negotiations with any would be buyers

 

if they get the new loan they can take their time and, ultimately, drive a better deal for themselves

 

getting the refinancing isnt the end of the story, its just my opinion, but I do think they will go, it may just be on their terms and it may take some time

[spider-neil]

we're fucked. :whoops:

[coop]

Hicks, if the loan goes through, will have time yes but this all affects us.

 

It looks very likely that we are going to lose Mascherano because of this and who knows who we are likely to lose in the summer whilst these two are still in charge.

 

With the loan intact Hicks has no pressure to sell as he can just get cash from the club regards the loan payments so would demand a high price to sell, something DIC have gone on record to say they will not pay.

 

Getting the loan will cost Hicks millions but we know who will be paying that lot back.

 

The last i heard Hicks had paid out £15 million on various legal fees and design fees.

 

About the same it would have cost to sign us a top winger.