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Star Trek - The Shit, or Just Shit?

Star Trek  

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  1. 1. Star Trek

    • Klingon? Klinkers more like it - it is SHIT
    • Full power to.. yeah, whatever - Star Trek is THE SHIT (in a good way)


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I didn’t even realise discovery was out which shows how much I care about that. 
 

contrast this to DS9 where I’m now reading the continuation novels as I just can’t get enough if it. 

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32 minutes ago, JagSquared said:

I didn’t even realise discovery was out which shows how much I care about that. 
 

contrast this to DS9 where I’m now reading the continuation novels as I just can’t get enough if it. 

DS9 was magnificent, it baffles me how people will lose their shit over some dramas, especially modern British dramas, yet the likes of DS9 never got the credit it deserved for its writing. 

 

The first six episode of season six which dealt with the dominion war were all written at the same time with writers going back and forth to each other's rooms saying stuff like 'are you killing x? How are you going to handle Y?' 

 

That level of  talent is off the scale when you consider the kind of stuff they came up with. 

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11 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

DS9 was magnificent, it baffles me how people will lose their shit over some dramas, especially modern British dramas, yet the likes of DS9 never got the credit it deserved for its writing. 

 

The first six episode of season six which dealt with the dominion war were all written at the same time with writers going back and forth to each other's rooms saying stuff like 'are you killing x? How are you going to handle Y?' 

 

That level of  talent is off the scale when you consider the kind of stuff they came up with. 

Yep it’s my personal favourite trek, although I loved TNG, after season 3 or so of Voyager and Enterprise which was criminally cut short.

 

the relaunch novels are set 6 months or so after the DS9 finale and Kira is now commander of the station with Lo Laren joining as security officer after spending time with the maquis and joining the Bajoran militia. Bashir and Ezri Dax are still together and Jake still pines for his dad. There’s loads of interesting background info on the post war universe which is a show I badly wanted.

 

I’m actually reading Twist of Faith which is actually the novels; Avatar 1&2, Abyss, Demons of Air and Darkness and Horn and Ivory so I’m set for some time yet. I do want to read a stitch in time by Andrew Robinson which focuses on Garak but I can’t find a paperback version that isn’t stupidly expensive.
 

I’m half way through avatar book one and it’s great because they built such a diverse and detailed universe as the setting that there’s so much material they can use. The show fleshed out characters so well that they can hark back to throw away lines and delve a little deeper. My inner nerd is loving it.

 

Ro was actually supposed to be in DS9 instead of Kira but the actress didn’t fancy being a regular in a show so declined the offer and so they created Kira.
 

The two are obviously very similar and the books, like the show treats them as realistic strong female characters with them clashing professionally (and personally) without the need to resort to crying and ultimately supporting each other in a cringy way. Instead they are both professional and continue to work together as it’s their bloody job in the quasi military organisations they are in. 

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1 hour ago, JagSquared said:

Ro was actually supposed to be in DS9 instead of Kira but the actress didn’t fancy being a regular in a show so declined the offer and so they created Kira.

 

The two are obviously very similar and the books, like the show treats them as realistic strong female characters with them clashing professionally (and personally) without the need to resort to crying and ultimately supporting each other in a cringy way. Instead they are both professional and continue to work together as it’s their bloody job in the quasi military organisations they are in. 

 

This is one of the things which does my nut about new Star Trek, the idea that it's breaking new ground because everyone on the bridge is a woman. Yeah but they're all shite, the only one I can name other than Burnham and Tilly is Dempet and that's because she's fit, I couldn't describe any of their character traits at all. 

 

Kira, Dax, Shelby, Janeway were all tough cookies but well rounded characters. 

 

The critical drinker on YouTube had made some good vids along these lines, the idea that modern writers don't know how to write strong women, so because they're scared of being called sexist they make the female characters impossibly good at everything - which makes for poor drama.

 

Burnham has literally saved the galaxy and is a captain despite being insubordinate and having started an interstellar war, yet she has never been bested in a fight and is always the first one with the answers.

 

Rey in star Wars is the same. I liked her but in hindsight she was a ridiculous character, she had no arc like Luke who went from spotty oik to Jedi Knight via repeated beatings and hard life lessons, she just kept shouting 'stop holding my hand', fixed the falcon, flew the falcon, gained mind control powers and beat the shit out of Ren on their first ever encounter. And brought people back from the dead.

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

This is one of the things which does my nut about new Star Trek, the idea that it's breaking new ground because everyone on the bridge is a woman. Yeah but they're all shite, the only one I can name other than Burnham and Tilly is Dempet and that's because she's fit, I couldn't describe any of their character traits at all. 

 

Kira, Dax, Shelby, Janeway were all tough cookies but well rounded characters. 

 

The critical drinker on YouTube had made some good vids along these lines, the idea that modern writers don't know how to write strong women, so because they're scared of being called sexist they make the female characters impossibly good at everything - which makes for poor drama.

 

Burnham has literally saved the galaxy and is a captain despite being insubordinate and having started an interstellar war, yet she has never been bested in a fight and is always the first one with the answers.

 

Rey in star Wars is the same. I liked her but in hindsight she was a ridiculous character, she had no arc like Luke who went from spotty oik to Jedi Knight via repeated beatings and hard life lessons, she just kept shouting 'stop holding my hand', fixed the falcon, flew the falcon, gained mind control powers and beat the shit out of Ren on their first ever encounter. And brought people back from the dead.

 

 

 

Wish I could triple rep this.  

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3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

This is one of the things which does my nut about new Star Trek, the idea that it's breaking new ground because everyone on the bridge is a woman. Yeah but they're all shite, the only one I can name other than Burnham and Tilly is Dempet and that's because she's fit, I couldn't describe any of their character traits at all. 

 

Kira, Dax, Shelby, Janeway were all tough cookies but well rounded characters. 

 

The critical drinker on YouTube had made some good vids along these lines, the idea that modern writers don't know how to write strong women, so because they're scared of being called sexist they make the female characters impossibly good at everything - which makes for poor drama.

 

Burnham has literally saved the galaxy and is a captain despite being insubordinate and having started an interstellar war, yet she has never been bested in a fight and is always the first one with the answers.

 

Rey in star Wars is the same. I liked her but in hindsight she was a ridiculous character, she had no arc like Luke who went from spotty oik to Jedi Knight via repeated beatings and hard life lessons, she just kept shouting 'stop holding my hand', fixed the falcon, flew the falcon, gained mind control powers and beat the shit out of Ren on their first ever encounter. And brought people back from the dead.

 

 

 

Been able to watch ST:D since they've put it on Pluto. Good grief, there's no binarys and other shite going on. Cant believe how bad it is. Just watch it to see what an utter abortion they're making of it.

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12 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Been able to watch ST:D since they've put it on Pluto. Good grief, there's no binarys and other shite going on. Cant believe how bad it is. Just watch it to see what an utter abortion they're making of it.

And comments like this make me glad I'm not currently watching. Just hope Strange New Worlds is decent otherwise new Trek is mostly shit.  

As an aside what are the DS9 follow up books called please?

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3 hours ago, Pete said:

And comments like this make me glad I'm not currently watching. Just hope Strange New Worlds is decent otherwise new Trek is mostly shit.  

As an aside what are the DS9 follow up books called please?

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/DS9_relaunch
 

its a collection of novels and comics by different writers. I’ve started with avatar book one. 

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Really does my head in these days when people say they think one of the new Trek shows is shit, and someone says something like 'erm, Star Trek has always been political!' or 'star Trek has always been diverse!'.

 

Yeah but it was good.

 

People aren't slagging the new shows off because they've shoehorned a pansexual into the engine room, they're slagging it off because the stories are shite, the science doesn't make sense and even now, three seasons in, I still can't tell you the names of most of the bridge crew, let alone their character traits.

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I work with a treky though watches and quite likes the newest stuff he says he hates bloody big story arcs and lack of humour, he wants a more light hearted monster of the week kind of thing. 

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On 08/01/2022 at 17:35, Section_31 said:

Really does my head in these days when people say they think one of the new Trek shows is shit, and someone says something like 'erm, Star Trek has always been political!' or 'star Trek has always been diverse!'.

 

Yeah but it was good.

 

People aren't slagging the new shows off because they've shoehorned a pansexual into the engine room, they're slagging it off because the stories are shite, the science doesn't make sense and even now, three seasons in, I still can't tell you the names of most of the bridge crew, let alone their character traits.

Im not even sure what century ST:D is supposed to be set in now. Are they 900 years in the future or what?

 

That black suit wearing Joe 90 character with the oversized glasses said in a recent episode '....technology has come a long way in 900 years.' Apparently not if a starship built 900 years ago is still seen as ok for the present and not a piece of antiquity.

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2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

This looks good, I have to say.

 

 

That does actually look quite good but then so did the first season..

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11 minutes ago, Pete said:

That does actually look quite good but then so did the first season..

Was watching one of the old Red Letter Media reveiws of Picard and they basically made the point, which I agree with, that Patrick Stewart having creative input is a big part of the problem. 

 

He doesn't seem to actually like Star Trek and wants to tell his own stories, which revolve around his views on Brexit and Trump. 

 

You do get this with thespians though, it's like Alec Guinness with Star Wars and Ian McShane slagging off game of thrones, they seem to think it's kiddy stuff not deserving of respect.

 

The episode of Picard season one where Stewart had a beret and an exaggerated French accent was clearly him just having a day out and fucking around, material be damned. It's a shame.

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Interesting ST:TOS fact. The Enterprise was only ever 'filmed' going right to left across the screen 3 times in the whole series and I guess at least 2 of those if not all 3 was for the Mirror, Mirror episode.

 

This was because the 11 foot filming model of the Enterprise wasnt painted on the left side as all the wiring for the special effect lighting was fixed to this side.

 

They actually fixed reverse NCC 1701 on the right side and flipped the film to make it look like it was travelling right to left!

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Recently finished DS9 which I thought was good. Didn’t massively love the whole ‘Emissary’ angle but overall I really enjoyed it. And it featured the greatest Star Trek character of all; Morn. 
 

Now on to Voyager. 

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55 minutes ago, Ian Sea said:

Recently finished DS9 which I thought was good. Didn’t massively love the whole ‘Emissary’ angle but overall I really enjoyed it. And it featured the greatest Star Trek character of all; Morn. 
 

Now on to Voyager. 

I think the emissary bit was fine up until the last season and it turning out his mother was a wormhole alien. That was a stretch that’s pretty much my only real criticism of the storylines - some could have been improved but for me it’s my favourite trek. 
 

im half tempted to rewatch voyager again but the first couple of seasons are ropey. Hopefully that doesn’t put you off because it’s still a good show.

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Agree about the Emissary angle. It was fine for most of the series but then they really ratcheted it up towards the end and became a bit silly, especially in the finale. 

On 22/01/2022 at 08:44, Section_31 said:

This looks good, I have to say.

 

 

Did they really need to bring back that scientist from season 1?? She was the most pointless part of the first season.

And seems like Whoopi Goldberg is going to be playing Whoopi Goldberg instead of Guinan this season...

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7 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I love Mount as Pike, I have to say.

 

 

aee1177f-bfc3-4a14-82c1-a2271f6f5259.jpeg

Please don't be shit. Just tell good stories & let the messages come through naturally.

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Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I've been dismayed at how many people are saying they love Discovery Season 3 and the first half of 4 which, on the whole, were fucking abysmal. That said, I think SNW is going to be different. I'm hoping they're going to be more like the Short Treks that feature the cast from SNW. They're great. 

 

Prodigy has been surprisingly enjoyable and endearing.  

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