Star Trek - The Shit, or Just Shit?

[Baltar]

Oops wrong thread

[Numero Veinticinco]

Potentially huge news about Pike. 
 

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/star-trek-pike.html

[dockers_strike]

31 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Potentially huge news about Pike. 
 

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/star-trek-pike.html

Cool!  Pike, Number 1 and the Enterprise could be a great series. I thought Majel Barrett played a great Number 1 in the Cage and Menagerie. Shame the studio didnt like the idea back in the 60s. Wonder if they'll get Gary Mitchell into the story lines?!

[Baltar]

10 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Cool!  Pike, Number 1 and the Enterprise could be a great series. I thought Majel Barrett played a great Number 1 in the Cage and Menagerie. Shame the studio didnt like the idea back in the 60s. Wonder if they'll get Gary Mitchell into the story lines?!

Why the obsession with prequels? It's hard to believe that Picard series is the only one since Voyager that is not set in the past. And I don't even consider that a proper sequel to the TNG, DS9 and Voyager. 

They need to have a sequel show set after the events of Voyager, in the proper timeline IMO.

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Baltar said:

Why the obsession with prequels? It's hard to believe that Picard series is the only one since Voyager that is not set in the past. And I don't even consider that a proper sequel to the TNG, DS9 and Voyager. 

They need to have a sequel show set after the events of Voyager, in the proper timeline IMO.

That’s where both Picard and Discovery S3 are now. Both of which are in the Prime timeline. The reason so many people want Pike, even though I agree that we should leave certain areas alone, is because he and the crew are so damned good in Discovery and the Short Treks. The Short Trek called Q&A is excellent, especially the ending. I think they should can the S31 show though. 
 

 

[JagSquared]

Where are the short treks available for viewing? I also would prefer post voyager settings, but like the idea of pike as that seems more like traditional trek plus he was great in what we saw of him.
 

discovery is a bit hit and miss for me but I do like that S3 is supposed set hundreds of years into the future where the federation is no more. 
 

That link though mentions S31 show, below decks, pike and a kids trek might be a bit of over saturation there.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, JagSquared said:

Where are the short treks available for viewing? I also would prefer post voyager settings, but like the idea of pike as that seems more like traditional trek plus he was great in what we saw of him.
 

discovery is a bit hit and miss for me but I do like that S3 is supposed set hundreds of years into the future where the federation is no more. 
 

That link though mentions S31 show, below decks, pike and a kids trek might be a bit of over saturation there.

Not sure where you can get the Short Treks. They’re bloody good though. 
 

Regarding oversaturation, I think they want Trek on all year round. On CBS AA. Which is pretty unbelievable considering how long between Enterprise and Disvovery. I’m not complaining, but there’s definitely a risk of it. 

[Baltar]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

That’s where both Picard and Discovery S3 are now. Both of which are in the Prime timeline. The reason so many people want Pike, even though I agree that we should leave certain areas alone, is because he and the crew are so damned good in Discovery and the Short Treks. The Short Trek called Q&A is excellent, especially the ending. I think they should can the S31 show though. 
 

 

I like Pike too in Discovery - he's probably the best thing about the show! However I can't say I'm eager to see another prequel show, I'd much rather they continue the story from DS9/Voyager. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

13 minutes ago, Baltar said:

I like Pike too in Discovery - he's probably the best thing about the show! However I can't say I'm eager to see another prequel show, I'd much rather they continue the story from DS9/Voyager. 

That’s what Picard is doing, isn’t it? 

[Baltar]

21 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

That’s what Picard is doing, isn’t it? 

Kind of but it's not really the same. Basically, I want to see a return of a proper Federation starship with a Starfleet crew, exploring the galaxy, meeting new species, encountering weird shit in space etc. In other words, what Star Trek is supposed to be about. Like I said, I like seeing Picard back but this isn't proper Star Trek, more like a spin-off. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

13 minutes ago, Baltar said:

Kind of but it's not really the same. Basically, I want to see a return of a proper Federation starship with a Starfleet crew, exploring the galaxy, meeting new species, encountering weird shit in space etc. In other words, what Star Trek is supposed to be about. 

So... not DS9? 

 

I’m just playing. I think Pike show can bring that but in its 5 year mission format. I guess we will see what happens. I personally don’t see Star Trek as one thing, but I know others do. 

[dockers_strike]

2 hours ago, Baltar said:

Why the obsession with prequels? It's hard to believe that Picard series is the only one since Voyager that is not set in the past. And I don't even consider that a proper sequel to the TNG, DS9 and Voyager. 

They need to have a sequel show set after the events of Voyager, in the proper timeline IMO.

Fair comment but why not have some tv series prequels? They allow for new story lines whereas it could be said it is harder to develop new ones in contemporary series.

 

I thought Enterprise was getting into its stride when it was canned. The idea of seeing Pike's pre Kirk Enterprise is appealling.

 

I dont know where they could take a post Voyager series, the Klingons have been incorporated into the Federation, The Dominion defeated, the Kardashian wars are in the past and even the Borg have  been seen off. The thought of Braxton era timeships doesnt do much for me so personally think that's a non starter as well. The Maquis? Just cannot see a series based on that story arc lasting either.

 

 

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

I dont know where they could take a post Voyager series, the Klingons have been incorporated into the Federation, The Dominion defeated, the Kardashian wars are in the past and even the Borg have  been seen off. The thought of Braxton era timeships doesnt do much for me so personally think that's a non starter as well. The Maquis? Just cannot see a series based on that story arc lasting either.

 

 

Great cross-over idea, d_s

 

[Baltar]

Quote

Fair comment but why not have some tv series prequels? They allow for new story lines whereas it could be said it is harder to develop new ones in contemporary series.

I don't mind the odd prequel, but with the Star Trek reboot movies, Enterprise, Discovery and now possibly Pike, that's too many for my liking. The biggest problem I personally have with prequels is the inevitable trampling on the continuity of the series that came before. Not to mention that the tech in the prequels appears more advanced than the tech set in future-based series. 

Quote

I thought Enterprise was getting into its stride when it was canned. The idea of seeing Pike's pre Kirk Enterprise is appealling.

I gave up on Enterprise early on but a lot of people say that its final season was excellent, might be worth a watch one day!

Quote

I dont know where they could take a post Voyager series, the Klingons have been incorporated into the Federation, The Dominion defeated, the Kardashian wars are in the past and even the Borg have  been seen off. The thought of Braxton era timeships doesnt do much for me so personally think that's a non starter as well. The Maquis? Just cannot see a series based on that story arc lasting either.

I don't think the Klingons have joined the Fed? Do you mean Bajorans? The Maquis were wiped out in DS9 so that's a nonstarter and I wouldn't want to see that storyline again anyway.

Just a regular Trek show with a ship, exploring the galaxy and seeing something different each week i.e. the classic Trek formula, would be my preference.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I get what you’re saying, @Baltar. I actually agree with that shout. I do think that we can have something like that with Pike though. Don’t forget, there’s over 150 species in the Federation, we know only a couple of handfuls of them. Watching Pike out there, discovering new worlds, would be pretty epic. 

[dockers_strike]

3 hours ago, Baltar said:

I don't mind the odd prequel, but with the Star Trek reboot movies, Enterprise, Discovery and now possibly Pike, that's too many for my liking. The biggest problem I personally have with prequels is the inevitable trampling on the continuity of the series that came before. Not to mention that the tech in the prequels appears more advanced than the tech set in future-based series. 

I gave up on Enterprise early on but a lot of people say that its final season was excellent, might be worth a watch one day!

I don't think the Klingons have joined the Fed? Do you mean Bajorans? The Maquis were wiped out in DS9 so that's a nonstarter and I wouldn't want to see that storyline again anyway.

Just a regular Trek show with a ship, exploring the galaxy and seeing something different each week i.e. the classic Trek formula, would be my preference.

I agree about the JJ Abrams films, absolute trash in my humble opinion and just revisioning of existing Trek canon is bullshit. To be fair, Enterprise was a long time ago now with the last episode shown 15 years ago. I just think a Pike Enterprise series would be cool. If it had of happened before Discovery aired maybe all the better, who knows?

 

About the Klingons joining the Federation, well, canon is a bit ambiguous about it, maybe deliberately so. I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the Khitomer Accord and Treaties between the two.

 

Certainly through TNG they gave the impression the Klingons were Federation members rather than just a loose alliance. In one episode Worf and his squeeze have to convince some Klingon warriors who'd been in a deep sleep that the Empire and the Federation were now united.

 

Im not sure if it is the same episode or another where Worf even appears in full Klingon dress as the captain of the Enterprise D to the Klingon warriors and to convince them not to go attacking Federation ships. So, the suggestion there is Klingons and federation are one and not just allies via treaties.  I think there's another TNG episode where Wes Crusher says the Klingons are Federation members and Yesterday's Enterprise with the changed and reset time line also suggests Federation membership to me.

 

Gowron does his best to tear up the treaties in later story lines but things seem to come back together with the war against the Dominion?

[Scooby Dudek]

Apologies for my ignorance, I always assumed after the Pike pilot and then Kirk taking over and the court marshal etc they was a small time period between the pilot and Kirk taking over. 

 

Is this not correct ? Or had Pike been Captain of the Enterprise for a long time prior to the pilot ?

 

With the above, what would be the time line for the Pike series ?

[Numero Veinticinco]

33 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Apologies for my ignorance, I always assumed after the Pike pilot and then Kirk taking over and the court marshal etc they was a small time period between the pilot and Kirk taking over. 

 

Is this not correct ? Or had Pike been Captain of the Enterprise for a long time prior to the pilot ?

 

With the above, what would be the time line for the Pike series ?

Yeah, Pike was Captain before Kirk for ages. The Cage (Pike pilot) was reused and revisited a few episodes into TOS season 1 in an episode called The Menagerie. Pike took over the Enterprise from Captain Robert April 2250 and handed it over to Kirk in 2265. The Cage is 2254. Not sure when Menagerie was, but obviously after 2265. 

[JagSquared]

5 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

I agree about the JJ Abrams films, absolute trash in my humble opinion and just revisioning of existing Trek canon is bullshit. To be fair, Enterprise was a long time ago now with the last episode shown 15 years ago. I just think a Pike Enterprise series would be cool. If it had of happened before Discovery aired maybe all the better, who knows?

 

About the Klingons joining the Federation, well, canon is a bit ambiguous about it, maybe deliberately so. I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the Khitomer Accord and Treaties between the two.

 

Certainly through TNG they gave the impression the Klingons were Federation members rather than just a loose alliance. In one episode Worf and his squeeze have to convince some Klingon warriors who'd been in a deep sleep that the Empire and the Federation were now united.

 

Im not sure if it is the same episode or another where Worf even appears in full Klingon dress as the captain of the Enterprise D to the Klingon warriors and to convince them not to go attacking Federation ships. So, the suggestion there is Klingons and federation are one and not just allies via treaties.  I think there's another TNG episode where Wes Crusher says the Klingons are Federation members and Yesterday's Enterprise with the changed and reset time line also suggests Federation membership to me.

 

Gowron does his best to tear up the treaties in later story lines but things seem to come back together with the war against the Dominion?

During the dominion wars they are two distinct empires, my understanding is that the Khitomer accords led to a lasting peace not a unification.

[JagSquared]

10 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Fair comment but why not have some tv series prequels? They allow for new story lines whereas it could be said it is harder to develop new ones in contemporary series.

 

I thought Enterprise was getting into its stride when it was canned. The idea of seeing Pike's pre Kirk Enterprise is appealling.

 

I dont know where they could take a post Voyager series, the Klingons have been incorporated into the Federation, The Dominion defeated, the Kardashian wars are in the past and even the Borg have  been seen off. The thought of Braxton era timeships doesnt do much for me so personally think that's a non starter as well. The Maquis? Just cannot see a series based on that story arc lasting either.

 

 

there’s actually loads to clear up in the post DS9 / VOY universe and the Picard show is certainly doing that with looking at the post Romulus destruction and the exploration of synthetic rights ( are they tech or sentient.
 

We could also look at the fallout for the various powers in the post dominion wars. Id like a look at something completely different such as star fleet academy where we look at various cadets and explore their  Races and motivations for joining with the looking at their early careers (please don’t turn it into a red squad show though - actually isn’t this what below decks will be?). Alternatively they could continue to explore more of the galaxy / other galaxies.
 

On a wider note I actually think the problem now is that traditional trek doesn’t fit the current style of how shows are consumed and the networks certainly don’t seem to think that a stand alone episode type series / alien of the week approach will work anymore.
 

Series also aren’t built around a 20 + episode run that allows for the exploration of characters and fleshing out of the “universe” which is prob why I couldn’t connect with any of the discovery crew other than Pike. 
 

as with other genres audiences seem to favour a strong central Theme/ storyline over a shorter run I.e - something that can be binge watched. (when it comes to trek I disagree that the old approach wouldn’t work). Action also seems to be more important rather than something more cerebral as they try to entice a new generation of audiences. 

[dockers_strike]

14 hours ago, JagSquared said:

During the dominion wars they are two distinct empires, my understanding is that the Khitomer accords led to a lasting peace not a unification.

Well like I said, canon is a little ambiguous about the Federation and the Klingons relationship. If you go right back to TOS, there's an episode where superior beings state the Federation and Klingons will become one.

 

In the original crew film The Undiscovered Country, the Klingons 'sue for peace' after the Praxxis moon is destroyed. At the end of the film the Klingon High Council members are in the Federation Hall along with all the other Federation species. There are other episodes in TNG that hint at the Klingons being more than just allies under Khitomer and other treaties.

 

All the clues are there and yes, Gowron does lead them away from the Federation for a spell. All part of the fun of Star Trek i guess.

 

 

[JagSquared]

I’m not sure the cannon is ambiguous, I get your points but the Klingons are clearly called out as separate entities, Picard even helps with the succession in TNG and in DS9 they have a short war. The fact they refer to them being the Klingon empire as a matter of course also points to them being a separate entity - no other federation member is referred to as such.

 

the TOS episode point that’s just a prophecy that hasn’t come to pass, they have become closer allies, the scene in u discovered country for me was analogous to the Axis surrender to the allies. I mean they had to host it somewhere.

 

its an interesting view point though and one I haven’t heard before.

[Baltar]

Have the Klingons had a mention in Picard yet? Will definitely be interesting to see what they are up to - and what they look like now (since Klingon appearances change so often...)

[Numero Veinticinco]

Not yet. Although I'm getting ready to watch Episode 6 with my lunch.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Episode 6 was fucking epic.