Chris Bascombe

[coop]

Good post but why would you play a world class central midfielder on the right to accomodate Sissoko? Why would you put a top class centre back on the right full back position? Positions both players hate?

 

Would Fergie play Ferdinand at full back? Would he play Scholes right midfield?

 

He is the benchmark.

 

Ferdinand cant play full back whereas Carra was full back during the treble season and Gerrard was superb on the right when he wasnt moaning like a big girl.

 

If you want to use Ferguson as an example can you imagine one of the Man United players telling him where they want to play.

 

No i dont think they would either.

[Cardie]

Good post but why would you play a world class central midfielder on the right to accomodate Sissoko? Why would you put a top class centre back on the right full back position? Positions both players hate?

 

Would Fergie play Ferdinand at full back? Would he play Scholes right midfield?

 

He is the benchmark.

 

Would he play Rooney on the right or left........Oh yeah, he did.

 

Hasn't he plaayed Ferdinand in midfield once or twice as well or am I imagining it?

[Dirk]

Not a pleasant article. If the players have turned on Rafa then that's the end of his reign here. Couple of side points-

 

I stuck up for Bascombe but I won't be doing that again, implying that the 2000 people protest was to get Rafa out is a shithouse trick.

 

 

They were singing "They don't care about Rafa, they don't care about fans, Liverpool Football Club, it's in the wrong hands," most of the time followed by "You lyin' bastards, get out of our club."

[spider-neil]

I remember an interview were carra and gerrard said they aren't supporting the mananger they are just concentrating on winning games, well concentrate on winning games then.

[Alias75]

Good post but why would you play a world class central midfielder on the right to accomodate Sissoko? Why would you put a top class centre back on the right full back position? Positions both players hate?

 

Would Fergie play Ferdinand at full back? Would he play Scholes right midfield?

 

He is the benchmark.

 

Carragher's played many games at fullback it was Rafa that turned him into a CB so i think its a bit rich if Carra's spat the dummy, especially since hes not exactly been playing too well recently.

 

As for Stevie, im not sure he is a world class central midfielder, thats not to say he isnt a world class footballer but personally i think you get the best out of him when he has more freedom to drift and attack without too many defensive duties.

 

Anyway its not their job to question the manager, they are players and they play where their selected and play to the best of their ability, you don't sulk like an 8 year old cos your not playing in your favourite position. What do you think Shankly would have to say to players that refused to play certain positions or sulked when that happened?

 

If Rafa thought it was best for the team that Stevie played wide right then he plays wide right, the fact we're even questioning if a player is refusing to play in a certain position is deeply worrying.

[Dirk]

Here's the proof Bascombe was bullshitting when he said that the protests echoed their heroes' sentiments.

 

[Rashid]

Nice one Dirk. The support for Rafa was amazing there. Bascombe saying it was about getting Rafa out is a bit shit.

[Rashid]

Carra seemed OK in the dressing room.

 

CROUCH: CARRA COULD PLAY ANYWHERE

Jimmy Rice 03 February 2008

 

Peter Crouch claims teammate Jamie Carragher could play anywhere on the pitch after the defender's antics down the right on Saturday.

 

Carra set up the big man's opening goal against Sunderland with a pinpoint cross from the right flank.

 

It came after Rafa Benitez asked his vice-captain to fill in at full-back for the day.

 

"He was quick to mention the cross in the dressing room after!" said Crouch.

 

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

he`s not a world class centre midfielder Rashid, he`s a world class player yes, but not a world class centre midfielder, id have had someone like Roy Keane or Viera over him anyday of the week, he lacks a massive amount of discpline, why cant he forge a real "world class" pairing with any of our centre midfielders then???

 

Er I guess you talking about Gerrard here.He is the best all round midfielder in Europe.If you think other wise please name him for me.

[Moschops II]

Paul, as far as the forum goes, the problem is that endlessly going over the same old ground in terms of Rafa's flaws achieves nothing – and gets pretty tedious to read when the 58th newbie that day is moaning about rotation, Voronin and our defensive tactics in home games.

 

Personally, it strikes me as a cop-out to say "He should go if there's a suitable replacement available" – for the simple reason that there isn't, or certainly doesn't seem to be. Maybe we could get Mourinho with new owners, maybe not; would you welcome that if so? I may just have missed it amid the chaos here lately, but I don't think I've ever seen you put your opinion forward on that one.

 

Who else is there? You don't need a particularly encyclopaedic knowledge of world football to know which leagues or backgrounds a likely replacement is going to come from – if Rijkaard gets sacked we might go after him, same with Ancelotti, though under the current owners I think we'd almost certainly be looking at the Curbishley/Strachan/Hughes end of the market, just as we are with players.

 

So what's it going to be? Because unless you fancy one of those (which is totally your prerogative), then we're stuck with Rafa. In the real world, there is no third option of "I don't think he's the man for the job, but at this point in time there doesn't seem a viable replacement." He's either in the job, or he's not. And if he's in the job and people are briefing against him in the press, whether it's the canteen staff or Carra, then personally I lose all respect for them, because the only person they're helping is Tom Hicks.

 

If Bascombe's right in saying Hicks is already convinced that he's ridden out the storm, then how do you think he's likely to respond to having one of his flunkeys telling him that Carra and Gerrard have effectively come out against the manager in public? To me, that strengthens his hand immeasurably - and whatever strengthens Tom Hicks at the moment can only be very, very bad news for the club. IF senior players have been involved in this story, that's hugely disappointing, and IF they've been doing so in some childish hissy fit at being played out of position, then that just takes the proverbial.

 

Do I think Rafa's the right man for the job in the long-term? Very probably not. Do I think under-performing players are right to knowingly help winkle him out of the job? No, I don't –*it's disloyal, it's snide, and in the current circumstances it's just going to reduce the club to a laughing stock still further. Personally, I think "club heroes" should be made of better stuff than that.

[coop]

Great post Moschops.

[JagSquared]

Dont know who used the Gerrard - Shearer comparison but that sounds fair to me. Any player with that much power should be moved on for the good of the team. I dont want it to be true as he is an absolutley fantastic player and we would have been lost without him at times but im of the school that sacrifices the few to save the many.

[Paul]

And turning against, without doubt, the greatest manager since Kenny for the same reason isn't?

 

I don't know where to begin with that. It seems to suggest that you think Rafa has been doing his own job as effectively as Carra has been doing his. If you think that, I come back to my first point - I don't know where to begin.

 

There is no proven replacement willing to step in who could improve the way the current squad plays. Let's not forget, it's full of Rafa's "poor" signings. And that manager would then get little money - if any - to improve the squad in the summer.

 

But the important point here is that nobody in their right minds feels that we'd get better if Rafa was sacked today. Nobody. We'd have Alex Miller in charge until a couple of months had passed and we'd managed to get a new manager in who wouldn't cost too much in compensation.

 

So let's get behind the players and the manager until the season's over and done with, wherever it takes us. Public slagging of the boss now will not help us at all, not by any stretch of the imagination.

 

That's my issue above all else. I think Rafa could have had us closer to challenging if he'd been supported as expected. Other don't. I think the reasons used by his critics are often twisted or exaggerated to fit in with their thinking - but I expect the critics think Rafa's defenders do the same. We don't know how different things would have been had the owners not lied, and we don't know if sacking Rafa in the summer would work out better or worse than backing him.

 

But just about everyone who cares about the club agrees that he should stay until the end of the season at the very least.

 

So let's have an end to public slagging of the boss.

 

I have never slagged Rafa off. Whyare you suggesting I have?

 

Also, you seem to be suggesting that the problems on the pitch began when The Twats showed their true colours. They didn't. They began two summers ago when Rafa signed Kuyt and Pennant and began to sideline Crouch. We've gone from looking a like a genuine work-in-progress finishing on 82 points to the farce that is this season's campaign.

[Alias75]

Er I guess you talking about Gerrard here.He is the best all round midfielder in Europe.If you think other wise please name him for me.

 

You answered your own post here, the argument was is Gerrard a world class central midfield player and you said name me a better "all round midfielder" thats not the same thing. Central midfield is a specialist position, someone like Fabregas plays that position better than Gerrard ever has, you have to get the balance right between being able to dictate the pace of the play, bring others into the game, choose the right times to support the forwards etc..

 

I think Gerrard plays his best football when he has license to drift, his strengths are all about making those bursting runs, his delivery from wide right is excellent, and hes always a goal threat, in my opinion thats best utilised in a freer role starting on the right.

 

I think its a very British thing that players label themselves as central midfielders or centre backs and thats it, someone like Gerrard could play 3 or 4 positions equally well but he has it in his mind that hes a central midfielder and tends to sulk if he isnt played there.

 

We should be concerned about whats best for the TEAM not whats best for Steven Gerrards ego, the truth is if Stevie is playing well fully motivated hes going to be a huge influence on this team wherever he plays.

[StevieH]

Was Paul Scholes a great midfielder or a great player or indeed both?

[Guest The Chimp]

Good post but why would you play a world class central midfielder on the right to accomodate Sissoko? Why would you put a top class centre back on the right full back position? Positions both players hate?

 

Would Fergie play Ferdinand at full back? Would he play Scholes right midfield?

 

He is the benchmark.

 

They play we're they're told - end of Rash. We have a team full of pampered, overpaid players who are indulged far too much. Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but if the players were playing for the shirt, for us and for their own peronal pride, we'd see that in their performances. I don't care where you play - 100% is obvious to anyone and we're not getting it from the majority of the players. Play we're you're told, shut your mouth and show some passion for all the poor bastards who pay your over-exorbitent wages, and who care so much for the club. That's your job, and you're extremely lucky to have the honour of playing for Liverpool, if it's not enough they should go.

[Kopite]

Was Paul Scholes a great midfielder or a great player or indeed both?

 

He's a ginge so no. ;)

[James Dean]

You answered your own post here, the argument was is Gerrard a world class central midfield player and you said name me a better "all round midfielder" thats not the same thing. Central midfield is a specialist position, someone like Fabregas plays that position better than Gerrard ever has, you have to get the balance right between being able to dictate the pace of the play, bring others into the game, choose the right times to support the forwards etc..

 

I think Gerrard plays his best football when he has license to drift, his strengths are all about making those bursting runs, his delivery from wide right is excellent, and hes always a goal threat, in my opinion thats best utilised in a freer role starting on the right.

 

I think its a very British thing that players label themselves as central midfielders or centre backs and thats it, someone like Gerrard could play 3 or 4 positions equally well but he has it in his mind that hes a central midfielder and tends to sulk if he isnt played there.

 

We should be concerned about whats best for the TEAM not whats best for Steven Gerrards ego, the truth is if Stevie is playing well fully motivated hes going to be a huge influence on this team wherever he plays.

 

Great post.

[Paul]

Paul, as far as the forum goes, the problem is that endlessly going over the same old ground in terms of Rafa's flaws achieves nothing – and gets pretty tedious to read when the 58th newbie that day is moaning about rotation, Voronin and our defensive tactics in home games.

 

Personally, it strikes me as a cop-out to say "He should go if there's a suitable replacement available" – for the simple reason that there isn't, or certainly doesn't seem to be. Maybe we could get Mourinho with new owners, maybe not; would you welcome that if so? I may just have missed it amid the chaos here lately, but I don't think I've ever seen you put your opinion forward on that one.

 

Who else is there? You don't need a particularly encyclopaedic knowledge of world football to know which leagues or backgrounds a likely replacement is going to come from – if Rijkaard gets sacked we might go after him, same with Ancelotti, though under the current owners I think we'd almost certainly be looking at the Curbishley/Strachan/Hughes end of the market, just as we are with players.

 

So what's it going to be? Because unless you fancy one of those (which is totally your prerogative), then we're stuck with Rafa. In the real world, there is no third option of "I don't think he's the man for the job, but at this point in time there doesn't seem a viable replacement." He's either in the job, or he's not. And if he's in the job and people are briefing against him in the press, whether it's the canteen staff or Carra, then personally I lose all respect for them, because the only person they're helping is Tom Hicks.

 

If Bascombe's right in saying Hicks is already convinced that he's ridden out the storm, then how do you think he's likely to respond to having one of his flunkeys telling him that Carra and Gerrard have effectively come out against the manager in public? To me, that strengthens his hand immeasurably - and whatever strengthens Tom Hicks at the moment can only be very, very bad news for the club. IF senior players have been involved in this story, that's hugely disappointing, and IF they've been doing so in some childish hissy fit at being played out of position, then that just takes the proverbial.

 

Do I think Rafa's the right man for the job in the long-term? Very probably not. Do I think under-performing players are right to knowingly help winkle him out of the job? No, I don't –*it's disloyal, it's snide, and in the current circumstances it's just going to reduce the club to a laughing stock still further. Personally, I think "club heroes" should be made of better stuff than that.

 

Firstly, I am against Mourinho getting the job, even though I think he'd so it well. That said, if he came, I'd have to get on with it.

 

Secondly, like it or not, we are shit on the pitch - and not just because of the current owners. I am not prepared to pretend that we're not just because it doesn't sound very nice.

 

Finally, I'm not copping out at all with my comments about keeping Rafa in the absence of an alternative. I genuinely have no idea. Rijkaard, maybe? But I've barely given it a thought. I knew I wanted Gerard to go at the end of his last season without having a clue who should replace him, too. That does not negate my point.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the people who are saying we must focus on the ownership issue alone are underestimating the seriousness of what's happening on the pitch. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but equally I refuse to pretend things aren't dire - because they are.

[King Emlyn]

It's the standard of the football that worries me more than anything else, the passing, movement and complete lack of any idea to break teams down is frightening, add to that that we now look like conceding every time the opposition attacks and it's all very depressing. I am convinced we won't finish 4th and where will that leave us then? The only problem (as has already been highlighted) is the lack of any decent managers available to take over. The manager is finished though, make no mistake about that. The owner (who's going nowhere) hates him, the players don't believe in him, the fans are divided and the slop being served up week in week out is now akin to the final days of Ged. That's my opinion i'm afraid, sorry if some don't like it.

[StevieH]

I'd rather we all focused on getting rid of the Americans.

[Anubis]

I never thought I'd see Bascome write a report like that, but that reads like it has been written by a shithouse.

 

Linking the protests to Rafa is absolutely bollocks. He knows full well what the protests were about and should either have printed the truth or just ignored it.

 

We all know there are problems on the field. Massive problems? We're 5th with a game in hand on the 4th place team and only one point behind. Try asking a Derby County or Sunderland fan if we have 'massive' problems.

 

Yes it has to improve, and sadly I accept that may not be under Rafa, but ANYONE holding the manager's job is going to be in difficulties if the disaster off the field isn't sorted out first. That's why the ownership problem is so pressing, because with it the long-term future of the club is in difficulty.

[Rashid]

Paul, as far as the forum goes, the problem is that endlessly going over the same old ground in terms of Rafa's flaws achieves nothing – and gets pretty tedious to read when the 58th newbie that day is moaning about rotation, Voronin and our defensive tactics in home games.

 

Personally, it strikes me as a cop-out to say "He should go if there's a suitable replacement available" – for the simple reason that there isn't, or certainly doesn't seem to be. Maybe we could get Mourinho with new owners, maybe not; would you welcome that if so? I may just have missed it amid the chaos here lately, but I don't think I've ever seen you put your opinion forward on that one.

 

Who else is there? You don't need a particularly encyclopaedic knowledge of world football to know which leagues or backgrounds a likely replacement is going to come from – if Rijkaard gets sacked we might go after him, same with Ancelotti, though under the current owners I think we'd almost certainly be looking at the Curbishley/Strachan/Hughes end of the market, just as we are with players.

 

So what's it going to be? Because unless you fancy one of those (which is totally your prerogative), then we're stuck with Rafa. In the real world, there is no third option of "I don't think he's the man for the job, but at this point in time there doesn't seem a viable replacement." He's either in the job, or he's not. And if he's in the job and people are briefing against him in the press, whether it's the canteen staff or Carra, then personally I lose all respect for them, because the only person they're helping is Tom Hicks.

 

If Bascombe's right in saying Hicks is already convinced that he's ridden out the storm, then how do you think he's likely to respond to having one of his flunkeys telling him that Carra and Gerrard have effectively come out against the manager in public? To me, that strengthens his hand immeasurably - and whatever strengthens Tom Hicks at the moment can only be very, very bad news for the club. IF senior players have been involved in this story, that's hugely disappointing, and IF they've been doing so in some childish hissy fit at being played out of position, then that just takes the proverbial.

 

Do I think Rafa's the right man for the job in the long-term? Very probably not. Do I think under-performing players are right to knowingly help winkle him out of the job? No, I don't –*it's disloyal, it's snide, and in the current circumstances it's just going to reduce the club to a laughing stock still further. Personally, I think "club heroes" should be made of better stuff than that.

 

This is one of the best posts in this thread but the following points are interesting in your analysis....

 

1. You think Liverpool cannot attract or afford a top class manager e.g. Rijkaard or Ancelotti

 

2. You say Hicks thinks he has ridden out the storm.

 

3. You think Rafa is probably not right in the long term.

 

After yesterday I don't think point 2 still stands and as for point one I think that is not true. If Tottenham can get Juande Ramos we can get anyone in world football.

 

Point 3 is the most interesting.... and begs the question as to why we would persist with someone who we know won't be here long term? Or do you think Rafa being here in the short will help with stability?

[Captain]

I am convinced we won't finish 4th and where will that leave us then?

 

Cheer up mate, there's no point in being defeatist. We have every chance of finishing fourth. We're one point behind fourth with a game in hand. And that's after a horrible run of results lately, we didn't win a single league game in January.

[Alias75]

It's the standard of the football that worries me more than anything else, the passing, movement and complete lack of any idea to break teams down is frightening, add to that that we now look like conceding every time the opposition attacks and it's all very depressing. I am convinced we won't finish 4th and where will that leave us then? The only problem (as has already been highlighted) is the lack of any decent managers available to take over. The manager is finished though, make no mistake about that. The owner (who's going nowhere) hates him, the players don't believe in him, the fans are divided and the slop being served up week in week out is now akin to the final days of Ged. That's my opinion i'm afraid, sorry if some don't like it.

 

Yes thats what worries me the most the level of team performance in the last few months has been so poor, its only because we have a few top individuals that we can get away with it. The question is whose to blame for that?

 

Rafa picks the players and formation but once they play its their responsibility, its not Rafa's fault that we pass it so poorly, or the movement off the ball is so poor, this is stuff you learn when you first play football you don't need to be told to pass it to a team mate and move into good positions.

 

Its clear some of the players aren't busting a gut for the manager which is disappointing especially as it seems like a couple of local lads are leading the way. Ask yourself one question if Mourinho took over tomorrow do you have any doubts that certain players would all of a sudden find an extra 10-15%? That tells you that some players aren't giving everything they have which is sad to accept.

 

I still think we have a core of players here that will play for the manager, Reina, Hyppia, Arbeloa, Skrtel, Mascherano, Alonso, Lucas, Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Pennant. Maybe Rafa needs to identify those that aren't 100% committed and make some tough decisions.