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Is it possible to win the league on our budget?


Paul
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Is it possible for us to win the league on usual transfer budget?  

96 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it possible for us to win the league on usual transfer budget?

    • Of course it is: Wenger, genius, young gems, blah, blah, blah...
    • Yes, but it's highly unlikely when The Mancs and Chelsea have mega-bucks.
    • Yes, but it would take the other top sides to all stumble at once.
    • No. It's as good as impossible.


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Guest Romano Polizia
I personally believe the squad hasn't been utilised correctly by Rafa in my opinion since the season began. Be it down to formation, system(S) and team selection Rafa has to take alot of the flak regarding this.

 

We have one hell of a core of a squad in

 

Reina

Finnan Agger Carra ???

Gerrard Javier Xabi ???

Torres ???

 

Fill in the blanks yourself based on form and recent performances, play a set system which the players understand, I know it isn't that simple, but personally the varied Systems, the varied formations and varied team selections have not helped us in the league, and Rafa is at fault for that.

 

Agree with this. He's a great tactician, but sometimes, and this might sound old fashioned, the players need nothing more than to be fired up and motivated, especially at home against weak teams.

 

I just don't think Ferguson or Wenger would adopt a whole new system and strategy and make countless personnel changes to play Wigan at home.

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You saying the League isn't harder to win now? It's not an excuse it's just a fact. One which perhaps doesn't fit your agenda admittedly.

 

i, for one, agree with you. you only need to look at the points totals that won the league in the mid 90s compared to the standard recently set by both united and chelsea. i think wengers first side won the league with 78 points.

 

or the type of money now being spent, even accounting for inflation. or the fact that blackburn only needed three seasons between getting promoted from the championship to winning the premiership.

 

think there's more talent in the premiership now than ever before.

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i, for one, agree with you. you only need to look at the points totals that won the league in the mid 90s compared to the standard recently set by both united and chelsea. i think wengers first side won the league with 78 points.

 

or the type of money now being spent, even accounting for inflation. or the fact that blackburn only needed three seasons between getting promoted from the championship to winning the premiership.

 

think there's more talent in the premiership now than ever before.

 

Its a moot point. Its possible the mid table teams are worse than ever before. Certainly the Uefa cup qualifiers don't seem to make as much of an impact as the big 4 do on the CL.

 

Personally I don't think its that much harder.

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Its a moot point. Its possible the mid table teams are worse than ever before. Certainly the Uefa cup qualifiers don't seem to make as much of an impact as the big 4 do on the CL.

 

Personally I don't think its that much harder.

 

Agree with that, the bitters are besting their previous seasons and Citeh have got some 'decent' quality (although any side with fat arse Dunn in can't be considered class IMO) but the premiership by and large is jam-packed with utter, utter shite.

 

The fact that Berbatov is considered the best player outside the top four speaks volumes.

 

To be honest quality around the globe isn't what it was ten years ago IMO, you only have to look at the last world cup to see the mediocre state of world football.

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Agree with this. He's a great tactician, but sometimes, and this might sound old fashioned, the players need nothing more than to be fired up and motivated, especially at home against weak teams.

 

I just don't think Ferguson or Wenger would adopt a whole new system and strategy and make countless personnel changes to play Wigan at home.

 

I agree I do think motivation wise the players could do with a bit more.

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i, for one, agree with you. you only need to look at the points totals that won the league in the mid 90s compared to the standard recently set by both united and chelsea. i think wengers first side won the league with 78 points.

 

or the type of money now being spent, even accounting for inflation. or the fact that blackburn only needed three seasons between getting promoted from the championship to winning the premiership.

 

think there's more talent in the premiership now than ever before.

 

 

Even the so-called shit, mid-table sides now have one or two talented players who can turn a game and to beat these sides consistently you have to be a lot better than them and far better than the likes of blackburn or the early wenger arsenal side.

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but the premiership by and large is jam-packed with utter, utter shite.

 

FA cup at the weekend might even back that up.

 

I think that only Everton of the mid table teams(ie not one of the "big 4") have won an FA cup since 92. That would have been unheard of previously

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Even the so-called shit, mid-table sides now have one or two talented players who can turn a game and to beat these sides consistently you have to be a lot better than them and far better than the likes of blackburn or the early wenger arsenal side.

 

In previous years so called shit mid table teams were capable of challenging for the title. The league is less competitive but there is less margin for error. I'm undecided if its harder to win or not.

 

When you have an inconsitent side like us, it probably is harder to win.

 

Do people not rate the first Wenger side? I thought they were very strong all over the field

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If it wasn't for the odd bad decision and having more than one top draw striker becuase the other three couldn't score in a brothel the top three would be shitting themselves.

 

It's very fustrating when these 'odd bad decisions' regarding team selections, systems and formations happen far to often and have cost us

 

Reading (A)

 

Brum (H)

 

Pompey (A)

 

9 Points there, 7 of which we lost it's not championship winning material.

 

Not saying we would of won those games if "x" player was selected "x" system was played and the players played in "x" formation, but it certainly would of helped if our best players in terms of Torres and Gerrard played v Pompey and the players chosen v Reading could of played in a system they...

 

A: Could play

B: Where used to

 

It's just deteriorated now to the players Ala Kuyt, Riise, Voronin have about Nil confidence and the majority of the players having little or no motivation.

 

I touched upon it in another post that there is no consistancy in the whole tactical element to our team, Too many systems for too many players, and no set style of play like Arsenal or Man Utd, there is no championship winning arrogance, no 'letting the team change the way they play for us'.

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anyone who thinks that it is possible to win the Prem on a limited budget hasn't looked at the facts

 

A total of 40 clubs have competed in the Premier League, but only four have won the title: Manchester United, Blackburn Rovers, Arsenal, and Chelsea. The current Premier

 

Blackburn where the original big spenders with Sir Jacks money. They only managed 1 title.

United being able to outspend everyone else have been most successful

Arsenal did it by buying youth and spending big money

Chelsea cracked it with the Russians cash

Arsenal with their new stadium can compete with both these teams now but still are not able to attract a player that either of the other two want

for us to win the Prem we would need around 100m spent in one transfer window on the right players and a new stadium to continue the investment in the team once we have that we can compete with Arsenal and Man U

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anyone who thinks that it is possible to win the Prem on a limited budget hasn't looked at the facts

 

A total of 40 clubs have competed in the Premier League, but only four have won the title: Manchester United, Blackburn Rovers, Arsenal, and Chelsea. The current Premier

 

Blackburn where the original big spenders with Sir Jacks money. They only managed 1 title.

United being able to outspend everyone else have been most successful

Arsenal did it by buying youth and spending big money

Chelsea cracked it with the Russians cash

Arsenal with their new stadium can compete with both these teams now but still are not able to attract a player that either of the other two want

for us to win the Prem we would need around 100m spent in one transfer window on the right players and a new stadium to continue the investment in the team once we have that we can compete with Arsenal and Man U

 

jesus christ.

 

Here are the facts lad.

 

We have a net spend equal to United and bigger than Arsenal over the course of the premier league.

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They're challenging for the title this season. They've finished fourth two seasons running beforehand, and without the entire Tottenham team getting gastro-entiritis they'd have finished fifth and missed out on the Champions League the first time round.

 

Still, as someone who spent most of the summer making pissy, smug comments towards those of us who were sceptical about the owners, the fact you're admitting we've got no money is something I suppose.

 

Mosser, long time no speak. If I agree with everything you say will you love me ?

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to win the league imho two things need to happen.

 

a) we need to stop spreading the budget too thinly and gamble on true quality in areas we need it most, if we were to pour our entire budget on one wide midfielder and one striker of true quality that is going to serve us better than trying to fill four positions with average quality.

 

b) we have to push up as a team front to back, none of this 'a defenders job is to defend' bollox arsenal and manu defend higher up the pitch, keep the hoofing down to a minimun and have fullbacks that provide the width while their wide players hunt for goals. basically defend as a team and attack as a team, if the defenders expect the midfielders and attackers to track back then the midfielders and attackers should expect the defenders (especially the fullbacks) to start attacks.

 

if the above doesn't happen I can't see us winning the league any time soon because if we don't do 'A' we will continue to replace mediocrity with mediocrity and if we don't do 'B' we wont have enough about us to pin lower teams in their own half and force them into errors helping us break them down.

rotation is neither here nor there as all the top teams do it.

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to win the league imho two things need to happen.

 

a) we need to stop spreading the budget too thinly and gamble on true quality in areas we need it most, if we were to pour our entire budget on one wide midfielder and one striker of true quality that is going to serve us better than trying to fill four positions with average quality.

 

b) we have to push up as a team front to back, none of this 'a defenders job is to defend' bollox arsenal and manu defend higher up the pitch, keep the hoofing down to a minimun and have fullbacks that provide the width while their wide players hunt for goals. basically defend as a team and attack as a team, if the defenders expect the midfielders and attackers to track back then the midfielders and attackers should expect the defenders (especially the fullbacks) to start attacks.

 

if the above doesn't happen I can't see us winning the league any time soon because if we don't do 'A' we will continue to replace mediocrity with mediocrity and if we don't do 'B' we wont have enough about us to pin lower teams in their own half and force them into errors helping us break them down.

rotation is neither here nor there as all the top teams do it.

 

I like what you have to say here Spider and strongly agree, but i fear those two points are not part of Rafa's footballing philosophy.

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to win the league imho two things need to happen.

 

a) we need to stop spreading the budget too thinly and gamble on true quality in areas we need it most, if we were to pour our entire budget on one wide midfielder and one striker of true quality that is going to serve us better than trying to fill four positions with average quality.

 

b) we have to push up as a team front to back, none of this 'a defenders job is to defend' bollox arsenal and manu defend higher up the pitch, keep the hoofing down to a minimun and have fullbacks that provide the width while their wide players hunt for goals. basically defend as a team and attack as a team, if the defenders expect the midfielders and attackers to track back then the midfielders and attackers should expect the defenders (especially the fullbacks) to start attacks.

 

if the above doesn't happen I can't see us winning the league any time soon because if we don't do 'A' we will continue to replace mediocrity with mediocrity and if we don't do 'B' we wont have enough about us to pin lower teams in their own half and force them into errors helping us break them down.

rotation is neither here nor there as all the top teams do it.

 

These two points are now so blindingly obvious that I find it worrying that we haven't previously moved in that direction and bizarre that we don't appear to be doing so now.

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To be honest... it really comes to this: We need to be able to stretch a club's defensive unit so it makes room in the center of the pitch for Gerrard, Torres, (other striker), Babel, etc.

 

We need left back that can hug the line and beat a man wide. We need wingers who can sustain wide pressure, while delivering threatening crosses, and passes WHILE still be able to beat a man wide.

 

That's really what our team screams for... United do it well, they win the Premiership.

 

We might decimate clubs down the center in Europe but our 'inside' play doesn't work in the Premiership where clubs will stick 10+ men behind the ball and condense into their box.

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To be honest... it really comes to this: We need to be able to stretch a club's defensive unit so it makes room in the center of the pitch for Gerrard, Torres, (other striker), Babel, etc.

 

We need left back that can hug the line and beat a man wide. We need wingers who can sustain wide pressure, while delivering threatening crosses, and passes WHILE still be able to beat a man wide.

 

That's really what our team screams for... United do it well, they win the Premiership.

 

We might decimate clubs down the center in Europe but our 'inside' play doesn't work in the Premiership where clubs will stick 10+ men behind the ball and condense into their box.

 

Passing to a red shirt would do for me.

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anyone who thinks that it is possible to win the Prem on a limited budget hasn't looked at the facts

 

A total of 40 clubs have competed in the Premier League, but only four have won the title: Manchester United, Blackburn Rovers, Arsenal, and Chelsea. The current Premier

 

Blackburn where the original big spenders with Sir Jacks money. They only managed 1 title.

United being able to outspend everyone else have been most successful

Arsenal did it by buying youth and spending big money

Chelsea cracked it with the Russians cash

Arsenal with their new stadium can compete with both these teams now but still are not able to attract a player that either of the other two want

for us to win the Prem we would need around 100m spent in one transfer window on the right players and a new stadium to continue the investment in the team once we have that we can compete with Arsenal and Man U

 

I used to think so Bob, but if you look at this season were 12 points down, with a game in hand. Even forgetting (as we all want to) the equalisers against Arsenal and Chelsea, or the daylight robbery by the Mancs, had we won games at Reading, Man City and Blackburn, beaten Birmingham and Wigan at home, we'd be 1 point off the top with a game in hand. I know if and buts and maybe make fuck all difference, but the fact is that we had several chances in each of those games to win them, indeed in seasons past, we have consistently beaten City, Reading and Wigan (Somewhere in there is the Steve 'pie face' Bruce factor, never lost to us in the prem).

 

So even though its unlikely we would take all those points, it would certainly be only a small leap for us to be in contention, maybe even top this season. And I think a growing number of people feel that if Rafa just slightly modified his rotation policy, to allow players to get into form, simplify the tactics etc , we'd perhaps be able to do that. A smaller squad would also help us achieve this, with real opportunites for some of the kids we've signed. On top of the summer signings, we also spent around 5 or 6m on kids. The two Hungarian Lads cost 2m, IIRC David Amoo was 750,000ish from Millwall (Im sure someone will have an exact figure) plus a few other lads we've brought in, for half a million here, three quaters of a million there who currently dont get any opportunities. Money is important, Torres and Babel show that but its also key for us to start buying one or two quality players, rather than 4 or 5 middle of the road players. Its inevitable, that as the quality of our squad increases, we'll have to replace better players, which in turn means buying better players. So we've goen from Baros, to Cisse, to Bellers to Torres. We'll get more money back in, which in turn will give us more money to get in a replacement. This season that evolution could see,

Biscan> Sissoko> Masherano

 

and perhaps,

 

Heskey> Crouch> New Striker ........

 

THeres no need for 30 top class payers, you need a spine,you need skill and talent up front with sprinkles around it. We've enough spine, not enough top quality in the skill and talent up front department.

 

So a slimmer squad, opporunities for all, some desire and drive, less rotation and a 'Liverpool Way tm' rather than constantly changing tactics, with constantly changing players would go along way to helping us challenge.

 

Rafa can change, he's shown this season with his reliance on Torres, int eh past his system was about multiple points of attack, 4 or 5 players scoring 10 goals each. This season he's taken a huge step away fro that, putting his faith in Torres, what difference would that faith shown make to Kuyt or Crouchs confidence and goals scored ? And none of this needed extra money than we already had.

 

G&Ts remit was not to bankroll us ala Ambrramovich, although they shot themselves in the foot there wacving wads of cash about, it was to build a stadium to allow us to compete on an even footing financially with United and Arsenal. (Also to increase our marketing, sales, merchandise etc. the brand value, but this was secondary IMHO)

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These two points are now so blindingly obvious that I find it worrying that we haven't previously moved in that direction and bizarre that we don't appear to be doing so now.

 

to be honest at the start of the season and in the first four games I thought we were, we spent the majority of money on one forward and in our first four games we were defending higher up the pitch.

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To be honest... it really comes to this: We need to be able to stretch a club's defensive unit so it makes room in the center of the pitch for Gerrard, Torres, (other striker), Babel, etc.

 

We need left back that can hug the line and beat a man wide. We need wingers who can sustain wide pressure, while delivering threatening crosses, and passes WHILE still be able to beat a man wide.

 

That's really what our team screams for... United do it well, they win the Premiership.

 

We might decimate clubs down the center in Europe but our 'inside' play doesn't work in the Premiership where clubs will stick 10+ men behind the ball and condense into their box.

 

its no coincidence that the top two teams also happen to have the most attacking fullbacks in the league, the fullbacks provide the width not the wide players, you mean to tell me ronaldo tears down the wing and gets on the end of his own crosses?

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