Luton Match Thread

[Section_31]

I would like rafa to have a long look at what sweaping changes actually achieves, seriously. we look fresher at the end of the season? all I see is there is little or no understanding in crutial areas we look like strangers, tired strangers rather than fresher strangers. how many 50/50 balls did we win today.

 

our squad is too big and it filled with too much mediocrity, rafa really would be better served with a smaller squad with better quality. three strikers rather than four for example so a partnership can be formed.

 

our squad may train together but players come and go from the side and confidence suffers.

 

Have said in the past that I think Rafa lacks a fundamental understanding of the human element of football.

 

And I don't just mean man-management, i.e one player needs a bollocking while the other needs an arm around the shoulder, what I mean is expecting players to be able to adapt to constant changes in style and position in a 90-minute spell.

 

It's not just the rotation of players that causes the problems its the change in shape and style. I often envisage Rafa standing over a stratego board or jotting stuff down on a white-board of how his formation is going to work and destroy the opposition, but in practice still can't suss out why the players can't follow his plans.

[DJLJ]

It's probably more than 60, Utd have about 65 according to their website.

 

Hmmm, I get to to 70 from this. http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/

[Cardie]

60 still sounds alot.

 

About 65 for Chelsea as well.

[zigackly]

Great on the abuse there.

 

I should probably step away from the keyboard. Nothing personal intended.

[Gumsy]

Our passing is absolutely awful. We give the ball away all the time. :wallbutt:

[bri]

I can't see where we going with they style of play. There's no pattern / cohesion to it. We seem to facilitate players by showin them out on the wing which makes them look worse than they actually are.

 

we have danny guthrie out at bolton why isnt he back at the club getting a shout.

 

I watch arsenal and they seem to have a style of play that filters through all of the squad.

[Rashid]

An utter disgrace and the team is totally in tune with the personality of Rafa... cautious and shite even against Luton, and we couldn't spring a pass together. Utter waste of money.

[RedKnight]

Uh oh...

[DJLJ]

About 65 for Chelsea as well.

 

ok cheers, well then that is probably the way it is supposed to be.

[George Costanza]

The attitude/committment of the players today was a disgrace. We lost every 50:50 and were second to every lose ball. Not for the first time (or last) we played like a team of 11 individuals. WE barely strung 5 passes together, when we actually managed to have the ball. We have good players, with good technique, how they can consistently put in these type of patchy displays is beyond me - its as if its being coached out of them.

[Cardie]

An utter disgrace and the team is totally in tune with the personality of Rafa... cautious and shite even against Luton, and we couldn't spring a pass together. Utter waste of money.

 

Thank fuck for that, was worried for a second.

[Section_31]

I can't see where we going with they style of play. There's no pattern / cohesion to it. We seem to facilitate players by showin them out on the wing which makes them look worse than they actually are.

 

we have danny guthrie out at bolton why isnt he back at the club getting a shout.

 

I watch arsenal and they seem to have a style of play that filters through all of the squad.

 

Spot on Bri, had the same discussion with Brownie a couple of weeks ago.

 

If you programmed the way the Arse and scum play into a computer and re-enacted them with computerised stick-men, you'd still be able to tell the difference between the two.

 

They have a set style which is the same throughout the club at every level and stays the same no matter who comes in to replace another player.

 

We don't have that, although how much of that is due to the fact we still don't have enough players to facilitate that level of organisation I don't know - i.e if half your team can't pass then you can't play a quick passing game.

 

Part of me thinks the Arse and Mancs are fighting with a well equieped army while we're fighting a guerilla war.

[spider-neil]

my main observation with liverpool with gh and with rafa is we don't enjoy ourselves, we play with shackles around our anckles we are built to not lose, so the margin in games is usually tight resulting in mental and physical fatigue, and the few games where we do play with freedom there are big changes so any confidence aquired is gone.

[JohanH]

Hard to pass when we have no established patterns of movement or any players natural at holding width... Accomodate that by using Babel and Benayoun drifting in so there is no space for Alonso/Lucas to run forward and no one for them to pass to when they do get the ball. So the ball goes back and we hoof it to Crouch.

[Captain]

we have danny guthrie out at bolton why isnt he back at the club getting a shout.

 

Because central midfield isn't an area where we lack players?

[coop]

I think today we was a victim of both the players been shite and Rafa trying to be too over tactical to beat a Luton team who were bound to play with plenty of heart and passion but should have been beaten by quality.

 

Kuyt and Crouch have struggled in the Premier league but both of them should have been more then enough to beat Luton.

 

Play 4-4-2 and attack instead like its been pointed out we had Kuyt in no set position as he turned up at right back more then once.

 

It showed how poor we are regards wingers and in all fairness i would have picked one of the youngsters such as Leto today if it meant having Babel upfront.

 

On the topic of Babel - how the fuck did he get brought off today and Kuyt and co was allowed to stay on.

 

Babel is an exciting young player and pass the ball to him and he will punish teams but keeping him out on the wing and then taking him off when players around him were playing much worse was very dissapointing today.

 

Its not all the players as Rafa as to take blame for todays dire performance as well. The players out there today played as if it was a pre-season game and that they hadnt played alongside each other before.

 

For me no heart and desire today and that has been our problem for a lot of the season as we are playing as if we just need to turn up and we will win because we are Liverpool Football Club.

[spider-neil]

Hard to pass when we have no established patterns of movement or any players natural at holding width... Accomodate that by using Babel and Benayoun drifting in so there is no space for Alonso/Lucas to run forward and no one for them to pass to when they do get the ball. So the ball goes back and we hoof it to Crouch.

 

having wide midfielders that push inside isn't a problem when you have fullbacks that have pace and ability to ghost past players effectively making them wingers, our fullbacks are cautious whilst finnan for examlple is an excellent fullback this season has been poor. we shouldn't be looking at fullbacks unless they have pace our wide players simply aren't good enough to support backs that don't.

[Zippy]

Have said in the past that I think Rafa lacks a fundamental understanding of the human element of football.

 

And I don't just mean man-management, i.e one player needs a bollocking while the other needs an arm around the shoulder, what I mean is expecting players to be able to adapt to constant changes in style and position in a 90-minute spell.

 

It's not just the rotation of players that causes the problems its the change in shape and style. I often envisage Rafa standing over a stratego board or jotting stuff down on a white-board of how his formation is going to work and destroy the opposition, but in practice still can't suss out why the players can't follow his plans.

 

Agree with that. I often think he sees the players as chess players that always have the same ability to influence games in whatever position they have irrespective of what other players are partnering them etc. On another note I am shocked that Brownie is getting stick for being negative as he is a balanced poster - yes some of his recent posts are negative (as are my own) because we are going through a bad period on and off the field. If we were playing great football and sitting near the top then their would be no reason for negativity or criticism but unfortunately we aren't.

[Brownie]

Agree with that. I often think he sees the players as chess players that always have the same ability to influence games in whatever position they have irrespective of what other players are partnering them etc. On another note I am shocked that Brownie is getting stick for being negative as he is a balanced poster - yes some of his recent posts are negative (as are my own) because we are going through a bad period on and off the field. If we were playing great football and sitting near the top then their would be no reason for negativity or criticism but unfortunately we aren't.

 

Cheers Zippy. I like to think I try to be as objective as possible.

 

I'd love for us to be battering teams every week and discussing how great we are, but the reality is different from that and this is a forum, so we're going to discuss the reasons behind our poor form.

 

I agree with what you're saying there about the system and the way that Rafa uses the players.

[109_ultra]

I cant understand why Babel doesnt play more. He can create a chance out of nothing for himself and has the potential to join Gerrard and Torres as our only goal threats.

[TheHitman]

Have said in the past that I think Rafa lacks a fundamental understanding of the human element of football.

 

And I don't just mean man-management, i.e one player needs a bollocking while the other needs an arm around the shoulder, what I mean is expecting players to be able to adapt to constant changes in style and position in a 90-minute spell.

 

It's not just the rotation of players that causes the problems its the change in shape and style. I often envisage Rafa standing over a stratego board or jotting stuff down on a white-board of how his formation is going to work and destroy the opposition, but in practice still can't suss out why the players can't follow his plans.

 

I agree with you on that Rafa treats the players as grown men many of them are married men with their own families and i can see why he does that and all players know they are treated the same no preferential treatment for star players. However every player has a different mentality and thats where Rafa needs to get some support from a good no2 i don't know what purpose some of the backroom staff play at the moment but no man is an island....

 

Also are we missing one or two experienced pros who have been there and won leagues like a Gary Mac or a Didi Hamann for their calmness and experience that they add to a team. I dont recall any player in our squad who has won a major league title in Spain Italy England or Germany i could be wrong though. I know it goes against the club policy of recruiting young players who have resell values.

[Captain]

I cant understand why Babel doesnt play more. He can create a chance out of nothing for himself and has the potential to join Gerrard and Torres as our only goal threats.

 

I agree with that. On today's showing, I don't see how we've got anything to lose by sacrificing Kuyt for El Zhar. Not that I thought Crouch was all that either.

 

We were poor in defence as well. Finnan got turned inside out time and again, and also for the goal. Sami and JAR were poor, with Carra only slightly better.

[bossy]

Rafa's won this competition before, but of course everyone knows better than him. It was 'a tricky away tie'. Loads and loads of them over the years. Please can we turn down the hysterics?

What is needed is for the uncertainty surrounding the club sorted out one way or the other and I hope to God it's sorted in favour of Rafa. Sacking a man who has brought us great trophies in recent years verges on the suicidal. It does and will take time and patience to win the league as there are some great teams out there.

[Anny Road]

Rafa's won this competition before, but of course everyone knows better than him. It was 'a tricky away tie'. Loads and loads of them over the years. Please can we turn down the hysterics?

What is needed is for the uncertainty surrounding the club sorted out one way or the other and I hope to God it's sorted in favour of Rafa. Sacking a man who has brought us great trophies in recent years verges on the suicidal. It does and will take time and patience to win the league as there are some great teams out there.

Can't disagree with anything you say there and I personally am not at the point where I would like to see Rafa sacked. I would like to add though he has the team playing shite on a regular basis and whilst this may in part be due to the behind the scenes carry on it does not excuse it. I suspect a man manager of the Mourinho/Ferguson type would use the current situation to develop a team seige mentality.

 

I get the impression that good as he is Rafa is a twat to work with. For examples I look at Valencia, Paco and G+H siuation. It may be his single mindedness, determination and lack of empathy which causes this tension but at times like this he needs the players to dig deep and they appear not to be responding. I cannot say I am too suprised.

[bigmacbrownie]

We were fucking shite today. Totally outclassed and outfought by a team two divisions below us.

 

I've had a read through this thread and when are you blind, opinionless twats going to stop pulling the wool over your own eyes.

 

We played as bad as i've seen us play for a while today.

 

Wake up and grow up fucking idiots!