George Galloway

[Numero Veinticinco]

38 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Nah it's totally two faced, selling out just so you can peddle your spiel (which the broadcaster has a vested interest in you doing otherwise it would pull the plug).

 

"I'm disgusted by Israel shooting journalists and killing civilians, but have no problem appearing on the state broadcaster of a country which routinely sends journalists head first out of windows and has pulverized vast swathes of Syria's civilian population."

So... where is that line drawn then, mate? BBC? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

30 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Now, that's definitely anti-Semitic, but so was Galloway's fuckwitted racist tweet.

How? I'm serious on this. How is talking about Israeli flags anti-Semitic? There are plenty of Jews that aren't Israeli and put their own country ahead of any perceived loyalty to Israel. There are plenty of Israeli's that aren't Jewish. It's okay to hate Israel. It's okay to criticise people - Jewish or otherwise - for their support of Israel. Lay this out for me, how - and by want sensible definition - is talking about Israeli flags anti-Semitic? 

 

I think it was just stupid and misplaced. This rush to call people anti-Semitic (prejudice against Jews because they're Jews) over their dislike of Israel is nonsense and damaging.

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

This rush to call people anti-Semitic (prejudice against Jews because they're Jews) over their dislike of Israel is nonsense and damaging.

 

But if people dislike Israel more than other misbehaving countries, many of whom are that much worse, to the point of obsession, then conclusions will be drawn from that.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

But if people dislike Israel more than other misbehaving countries, many of whom are that much worse, to the point of obsession, then conclusions will be drawn from that.

Misbehaving. Wow. That's certainly one word for it. They break more international laws than any other nation, so I don't think 'many' is correct. There are some worse countries in the 'misbehaving' rankings, in my book at least, but very few. If people are allowed to draw their own conclusions in such a shoddy, illogical way, we are all in a bit of trouble! For a start, I could draw conclusions from calling what Israel does 'misbehaving', but then I'm not willing go out of my way to label people unfairly. 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

How? I'm serious on this. How is talking about Israeli flags anti-Semitic? There are plenty of Jews that aren't Israeli and put their own country ahead of any perceived loyalty to Israel. There are plenty of Israeli's that aren't Jewish. It's okay to hate Israel. It's okay to criticise people - Jewish or otherwise - for their support of Israel. Lay this out for me, how - and by want sensible definition - is talking about Israeli flags anti-Semitic? 

 

I think it was just stupid and misplaced. This rush to call people anti-Semitic (prejudice against Jews because they're Jews) over their dislike of Israel is nonsense and damaging.

It's anti-Semitic because the only reason he mentioned Israeli flags is Tottenham's tradition as  a Jewish club. The team, the club and it's fanbase have no formal ties to Israel - but they do have a Jewish heritage.  You can't link Spurs to Israel except via "the Jews" - and once you do that, you're deep in anti-Semitic territory. 

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

But if people dislike Israel more than other misbehaving countries, many of whom are that much worse, to the point of obsession, then conclusions will be drawn from that.

The failure to acknowledge the link between Spurs, Jews and the Galloway comment is priceless. ‘what, they have a Jewish fan base?, who knew?’ 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's anti-Semitic because the only reason he mentioned Israeli flags is Tottenham's tradition as  a Jewish club. The team, the club and it's fanbase have no formal ties to Israel - but they do have a Jewish heritage.  You can't link Spurs to Israel except via "the Jews" - and once you do that, you're deep in anti-Semitic territory. 

Crossed. But perfectly put.  NV is a fucking whoppers whopper. 

[cloggypop]

12 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

But if people dislike Israel more than other misbehaving countries, many of whom are that much worse, to the point of obsession, then conclusions will be drawn from that.

Which ones? 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

[Strontium]

3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Misbehaving. Wow. That's certainly one word for it. They break more international laws than any other nation, so I don't think 'many' is correct. There are some worse countries in the 'misbehaving' rankings, in my book at least, but very few. If people are allowed to draw their own conclusions in such a shoddy, illogical way, we are all in a bit of trouble! For a start, I could draw conclusions from calling what Israel does 'misbehaving', but then I'm not willing go out of my way to label people unfairly. 

 

Misbehaviour is a catch-all term to describe behaviour that is wrong, so it's hardly open to interpretation.

 

I don't know what is meant by breaking more international laws, or what the relevance is. I'd say killing people and oppressing people is wrong, irrespective of what rules have been technically breached, and there are many countries who kill and/or oppress more people than Israel.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

But if people dislike Israel more than other misbehaving countries, many of whom are that much worse, to the point of obsession, then conclusions will be drawn from that.

I've never accepted criticism of Israel  (however "obsessive") as proof of anti-Semitism.  I've met plenty of people who "obsess" about the human rights records of different countries; none of them are motivated by racism, it's just that the more they see of a particular country's crimes, the more they want the world to do something about it. 

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Which ones? 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

 

Yeah, that actually reinforces my point.

[cloggypop]

1 minute ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Yeah, that actually reinforces my point.

 

3 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Yeah, that actually reinforces my point.

How? 

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Yeah, that actually reinforces my point.

More than China who currently have more than a million muslims in concentration camps.  Wrong type of Muslims? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's anti-Semitic because the only reason he mentioned Israeli flags is Tottenham's tradition as  a Jewish club. 

Oh. Yeah, no it isn't. That's the points of disagreement then.

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, cloggypop said:

How? 

 

Because it reinforces the idea that Israel's misdeeds are put under the microscope more than the misdeeds of others.

 

You might as well point to all the Irish people jailed in the 1970s and 80s as proof that Irish people are wrong uns. Well, no, they just came in for "special" treatment by the authorities.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

More than China who currently have more than a million muslims in concentration camps.  Wrong type of Muslims? 

 Yeah, I've enjoyed how many times you've mentioned the plight of muslims in China on here. Always campaigning for the Muslims. Time for you to fuck off and have another selfie with Z-list celebs to make yourself feel relevant, you fucking cock. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Jesus fucking christ. I'm out of this thread for a bit. 

[moof]

10 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's anti-Semitic because the only reason he mentioned Israeli flags is Tottenham's tradition as  a Jewish club. The team, the club and it's fanbase have no formal ties to Israel - but they do have a Jewish heritage.  You can't link Spurs to Israel except via "the Jews" - and once you do that, you're deep in anti-Semitic territory. 

You can link Tottenham to Israel by the fact that Tottenham fans wave Israel flags at the match. Israel is an apartheid state. The flag represents a racist settler colony. It doesn’t represent Jews 

 

conflating israel with Jews actually is antisemitic 

[moof]

His tweet was unnecessary and provocative and I’m not surprised people have taken issue with it, but it isn’t antisemitic 

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 minutes ago, moof said:

His tweet was unnecessary and provocative and I’m not surprised people have taken issue with it, but it isn’t antisemitic 

Yeah, that's pretty much my read on it. Galloway can, quite clearly, be a bit of a cock. 

[sir roger]

This was the worry expressed by a lot of people when the new rules on anti-semitism were being adopted in full. Despite the promise that it would not be used to dampen criticism of Israel by conflating it with anti-semitism, this is obviously the road that is being actively pursued by the likes of BoD and LFI.

[Pureblood]

13 hours ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

But if people dislike Israel more than other misbehaving countries, many of whom are that much worse, to the point of obsession, then conclusions will be drawn from that.

That's convenient.  

[Sugar Ape]

12 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's anti-Semitic because the only reason he mentioned Israeli flags is Tottenham's tradition as  a Jewish club. The team, the club and it's fanbase have no formal ties to Israel - but they do have a Jewish heritage.  You can't link Spurs to Israel except via "the Jews" - and once you do that, you're deep in anti-Semitic territory. 

I disagree with NV. I think it is anti-Semitic for the reasons outlined by AOT above. Spurs aren't known for flying Israel flags in my view, in fact I've never heard that in my life before Galloway mentioned it. That's not to say the Israel flag hasn't been waved by some of their support but it's hardly something they are known for. They are known for having a large Jewish support however and it is Galloway who is conflating the two and it's clear anti-Semitism to me. Spurs have nothing to do with Israel.

 

He's also one of the most unappealing people in politics so I've got no desire to discuss it really beyond what I've wrote above. I'm glad he's been sacked and hopefully this means hearing his voice a lot less.

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

That's convenient.  

Or peak Hasbara. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

42 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

I disagree with NV. I think it is anti-Semitic for the reasons outlined by AOT above. Spurs aren't known for flying Israel flags in my view, in fact I've never heard that in my life before Galloway mentioned it. That's not to say the Israel flag hasn't been waved by some of their support but it's hardly something they are known for. They are known for having a large Jewish support however and it is Galloway who is conflating the two and it's clear anti-Semitism to me. Spurs have nothing to do with Israel.

 

He's also one of the most unappealing people in politics so I've got no desire to discuss it really beyond what I've wrote above. I'm glad he's been sacked and hopefully this means hearing his voice a lot less.

 

No, mate. I very much disagree. They have been noted this season for their Israeli flags. They’ve been out in force in games in the CL. We need to stop thinking Israel = Jews and Jews = Israel. It’s just wrong. 

 

If it was Saudi Arabia flags on the Kop and somebody said ‘at least there won’t be Saudi flags on the cup’ nobody would cry racism or Islamophobia. Mainly because it’d be ridiculous. But then, very few people defend the... what’s the word... misbehaviour of Saudi Arabia.