Racism in Southern America..

[SasaS]

31 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The link through all of them is that black people are more likely to live in shitty socio-economic conditions.  Why is that?

 

The obvious, glaring, screaming conclusion is that this country is fundamentally, structurally, systematically racist.  It would be perverse to deny it.

Reluctant to chip in on this, but, here I go anyway: there is something I've noticed about these statistics in the UK, they seldom compare and explain difference in situation between various BAME groups, for example, last numbers for deaths in police custody I've seen claim that police kill "statistically correct" number of white people, but Asians are under represented and black people are over represented. Could it be that the society is more racist toward black people than Asians, or does regional composition also play the part? Most black people tend to live in London and other big urban areas for example, where you would expect more crime. Also, are there differences between communities, self-regulating and stuff like that? 

Unlike with black people in the US, most BAME and black people in the UK tend to be first to at best third generation immigrants, you would expect this would also play a part , since immigrants usually start at the bottom, taking jobs native population is mostly no longer interested in. Non-British whites tend to do better, but I suspect this is only true at the upper part of the scale, with highly educated EU and other immigrants competing for high income jobs, I doubt that the lower part where low paying jobs are more prevalent things are considerable different than with Asians or African/Caribbean groups.

[A Red]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

I don't know.  (It's OK to say that - even on the internet.)

 

For a start, the application of duties introduced by the Equalities Act should be beefed up and extended, so that all businesses (as well as public sector bodies) above a certain size should be required to monitor how they combat inequality, in their employment practices and in the services they provide: a proper requirement to produce action plans and an enforceable legal duty to implement their plans.

Nothing at all wrong with saying you dont know. Like I said I wasnt trying to make a point, I dont know either.

 

 

[BeefStroganoff]

49 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The link through all of them is that black people are more likely to live in shitty socio-economic conditions.  Why is that?

 

The obvious, glaring, screaming conclusion is that this country is fundamentally, structurally, systematically racist.  It would be perverse to deny it.

Socio economic problems are not just born from racism, they are multi faceted. They start with responsibility for your own actions. If a child doesn't study hard they don't get the grades unless you are suggestingthe teachers refusing to teach because of the childs skin colour? Again .gov doesn't say.

 

We agree to disagree here.

[Nunavut Patrick]

No one calling up Section31 on the ‘my black mate’ card....

 

 

[BeefStroganoff]

50 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Of course, there's always the possibility that black people do worse at school because they're genetically thick; or they get paid less because they're genetically lazy; or they get arrested more because they're genetically disposed towards criminality; or they're more likely to die in childbirth because black mothers are genetically less robust.

 

But that is all demonstrable bullshit.

 

On the other hand, there are mountains and mountains of evidence of conscious and unconscious bias against black people.

 

Yeah.  Racism "plays a part".

You have no reason. Therefore our conversation is at an end.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

5 minutes ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

No one calling up Section31 on the ‘my black mate’ card....

 

Is Section31 black?

 

Where's the ignore function again?

[BeefStroganoff]

20 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Reluctant to chip in on this, but, here I go anyway: there is something I've noticed about these statistics in the UK, they seldom compare and explain difference in situation between various BAME groups, for example, last numbers for deaths in police custody I've seen claim that police kill "statistically correct" number of white people, but Asians are under represented and black people are over represented. Could it be that the society is more racist toward black people than Asians, or does regional composition also play the part? Most black people tend to live in London and other big urban areas for example, where you would expect more crime. Also, are there differences between communities, self-regulating and stuff like that? 

Unlike with black people in the US, most BAME and black people in the UK tend to be first to at best third generation immigrants, you would expect this would also play a part , since immigrants usually start at the bottom, taking jobs native population is mostly no longer interested in. Non-British whites tend to do better, but I suspect this is only true at the upper part of the scale, with highly educated EU and other immigrants competing for high income jobs, I doubt that the lower part where low paying jobs are more prevalent things are considerable different than with Asians or African/Caribbean groups.

Stop talking sense! Everyone is a racist don't you know.

 

You've put it much better than I. Its just not as simple as folks make it out. Theres multiple scenarios that create these situations, and you are right, a lot of immigrants will have come in with next to nothing and having to work their way upward which can be difficult FOR ANYONE. Thats not to say they don't encounter bigotry through their lives.

 

 

 

 

[Nunavut Patrick]

I’ll give an example of institutional racism.

 

I work as a bus driver. We are the most diverse department in the city, which in total employs 11,000 or so souls. The police is 80% white male, the fire dept. close to 90%. Transit hovers around 55% white male and in the last five years the vast majority of hires are POC or BAME in England. Why? Not because it’s an amazing job with fantastic pay and benefits and a safe workplace (two people

murdered on the bus in last three years, about one stabbing a month)-Because white people don’t want the job because the conditions are shit. Or they (whites) use it as a springboard to management or getting on in another city department. 

 

The top officials in charge- city manager, Director, Operations Manager, Operations Supervisor, Master of schedules, and chief timekeeper are all 50+ white males. All started as drivers. Not once has a woman or POC being promoted into the top positions despite many of them having the same amount of service time, experience and education. In fact they bent the rules for the current director because he was lacking a qualification. 

 

 

[Nunavut Patrick]

Is this a good time to bring up the Major in Fawlty Towers?

 

[BeefStroganoff]

3 minutes ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

I’ll give an example of institutional racism.

 

I work as a bus driver. We are the most diverse department in the city, which in total employs 11,000 or so souls. The police is 80% white male, the fire dept. close to 90%. Transit hovers around 55% white male and in the last five years the vast majority of hires are POC or BAME in England. Why? Not because it’s an amazing job with fantastic pay and benefits and a safe workplace (two people

murdered on the bus in last three years, about one stabbing a month)-Because white people don’t want the job because the conditions are shit. Or they (whites) use it as a springboard to management or getting on in another city department. 

 

The top officials in charge- city manager, Director, Operations Manager, Operations Supervisor, Master of schedules, and chief timekeeper are all 50+ white males. All started as drivers. Not once has a woman or POC being promoted into the top positions despite many of them having the same amount of service time, experience and education. In fact they bent the rules for the current director because he was lacking a qualification. 

 

 

I don't doubt for one second it goes on. But for your example theres the opposite experience. In my example, theres been a lot of diversity across the companies I have worked for in the creative industry.

 

Theres been much more of a balance of ethnic minorities in senior positions and i've worked with and under several extremely talented women in the design field. My current boss is a woman. 

 

The problems arise when its suddenly all or nothing, when the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[BeefStroganoff]

3 minutes ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

Is this a good time to bring up the Major in Fawlty Towers?

 

Blazing Saddles? Do they still even sell the dvd?

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

Is this a good time to bring up the Major in Fawlty Towers?

 

"Good card players!" 

[Bjornebye]

32 minutes ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

The Russians are saying hold my vodka.
 

If Stalingrad fell the war would have been lost; the Eastern Front preoccupied

Hitler and it was a disastrous move; Russian led the WW2 charts with the most deaths.

 

The Americans were too busy profiteering off the war before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour. They as well were close to losing the Pacific and the Battle of  Midway 

if I recall was the turning point.

 

Or it may have been a Kennedy in a PT boat who sank the Japanese fleet. 

Yes it wasn't really the point I was making for christ sake.  Everyone knows the Japanese soldier fond on a remote island years after the war actually won it all anyway. Last man standing etc. 

[Nunavut Patrick]

2 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

I don't doubt for one second it goes on. But for your example theres the opposite experience. In my example, theres been a lot of diversity across the companies I have worked for in the creative industry.

 

Theres been much more of a balance of ethnic minorities in senior positions and i've worked with and under several extremely talented women in the design field. My current boss is a woman. 

 

The problems arise when its suddenly all or nothing, when the truth is somewhere in the middle.

There are some opposite examples I’m sure, but generally, in my workplace experiences I find the line skewed towards institutional racism. 

[Nunavut Patrick]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Yes it wasn't really the point I was making for christ sake.  Everyone knows the Japanese soldier fond on a remote island years after the war actually won it all anyway. Last man standing etc. 

Mate you’re getting your history from Gilligan’s Island. 

[Vector Sigma]

We are conditioned to judge people based on dozens of factors, race, colour, accent or clothes being just some of them. We learn to see beyond these through our own quest to seek enlightenment from prejudice. Unconscious bias can be unlearned just as much as it can be reinforced. Sadly we live in an age where divide and conquer politics rule the roost and the more we try to act as a single human race the greater the divisions are exposed.

 

Even the well-meaning progressive elements have been hijacked by the extremes, with their whataboutery and desire to seek outrage where it doesn't exist (until they create it). How far back do you want to go to find evidence that humans haven't always been cruel and downright evil to each other irrespective of their differences? Racism is abhorrent of course, but it will never be eradicated because fundamentally all humans in positions of power are cunts to varying degrees and play on people's fears of the other. There will always be prejudice, it's in our nature as individuals. We want what's best for those near and dear to us and our fight or flee instinct when expanded into a community, race, country etc. means there will always be a them and us.

 

Unity is strength but unfortunately division is stronger right now.

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

Mate you’re getting your history from Gilligan’s Island. 

Racist 

[Nunavut Patrick]

13 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Racist 

I’m offended.

For the record Ginger all day over Maryanne. So there. I love gingers and I’m woke.

[Mudface]

25 minutes ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

I’m offended.

For the record Ginger all day over Maryanne. So there. I love gingers and I’m sick.

 

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I don't know.  (It's OK to say that - even on the internet.)

 

For a start, the application of duties introduced by the Equalities Act should be beefed up and extended, so that all businesses (as well as public sector bodies) above a certain size should be required to monitor how they combat inequality, in their employment practices and in the services they provide: a proper requirement to produce action plans and an enforceable legal duty to implement their plans.

Doesn’t that just mean show that they don’t break the law? 

[Rico1304]

The League Of Gentlemen has gone from Netflix. 

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

I’m offended.

For the record Ginger all day over Maryanne. So there. I love gingers and I’m woke.

But Mrs. Howell...

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

I don't doubt for one second it goes on.

You have been doubting it for two pages pal.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

You have no reason. Therefore our conversation is at an end.

 

That's me telt!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Blazing Saddles? Do they still even sell the dvd?

One of the best anti-racist films ever.

 

If anyone still sells DVDs, they probably sell that.