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The McCanns...


Chris
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1 minute ago, TK421 said:

That's not what I asked.

 

Do i think the McCanns should be questioned or left alone?  Do you think they should do a reconstruction?  

 

To be honest I don’t know enough about it. The McCanns have been questioned numerous times though. But I’d be willing to accept that the experts know what they’re doing. So if they don’t feel the need I’m willing to accept it, instead of throwing accusations about. 

I thought there had been a reconstruction though? 

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5 minutes ago, liverpoolsno9 said:

 

Do i think the McCanns should be questioned or left alone?  Do you think they should do a reconstruction?  

 

To be honest I don’t know enough about it. The McCanns have been questioned numerous times though. But I’d be willing to accept that the experts know what they’re doing. So if they don’t feel the need I’m willing to accept it, instead of throwing accusations about. 

I thought there had been a reconstruction though? 

They haven't been question by Operation Grange and nor have any of the Tapas 7.  Do you think they should be questioned, yes or no?

 

There has not been a reconstruction.  The Portuguese police tried to arrange one but the McCanns and their mates refused to take part.  There was a partial reconstruction of one part of the night, done on a Channel 4 documentary with no police involvement, in which Jane Tanner ends up crying after her testimony of that part of the night conflicts with Gerry's. 

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On 11/04/2019 at 15:35, TK421 said:

It doesn't mean that they killed her, of course not, and I don't think they did.  I think she died by accident and agree with the Portuguese police who asserted that the parents were involved in the concealment of her corpse.  If she's dead then it blows their whole story apart about checking every 30 minutes, because supposedly it takes 90 minutes or thereabouts for the cadaver odour to take effect and reach levels detectable by the sniffer dog. 

 

The real mystery, in my opinion, is not whether she's alive or dead but rather how she died and when she died. 

I can see why you think that. For me there's not enough evidence (in the public domain at least ) that points to anything. As I mentioned previously, I can't get passed how they were able to sleep just a few hours after she was reported missing. But all that really says is they could be really crappy parents who didn't care too much about their kids. 

14 minutes ago, liverpoolsno9 said:

 

 the reason the British police haven't pursued the McCanns is because they have taken their side and believe the abduction theory.  The British police operation is a sham because the McCanns and the Tapas 7 haven't been questioned.  The reason they haven't got any new leads after spending £12m is because they are looking at the wrong evidence.  They should be questioning the McCanns and their friends,”  .............

 

Sounds like you do, and the fact that you can be so confident of them being guilty also suggests you do

 

I haven’t read into as much a some people. I work with lads that say they are guilty as fuck because of the dogs, the dna, Gerry being a cunt etc etc. Without them knowing much about the case, people can throw these accusations around. Just like you. No matter how we’ll read up on it you are, the Police and all the forensic and scientific experts know more than you and, it seems, are happy with the McCanns version of events. Do you really believe the the British Police would overlook evidence if it was so overwhelming? Do you really think the the British Police, if they had ANYTHING at all on them, would ignore it? 

If they are guilty of anything, it’s of being cunts and leaving the kids whilst they had a night out. That’s what all this is about. Because they are Middle Class and unlikeable. Doesn’t make them murderers.

Quite honestly I think the British police are capable of anything. The McCann's were able to get people very high in governmental life on their side quickly. I can see really easily if the people running the investigation were told not to investigate the McCann's regardless of if they were likely suspects, the police on the operation would do as they were told. We have incredible amounts of evidence in this country that there is no reason to believe our police force, especially when they are being politically driven or defending their own actions. 

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Just now, Barry Wom said:

I'm not sure they'd were ever cleared where they? They were just no longer aguido's

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/madeleine-mccanns-parents-have-not-ruled-innocent-judge-says/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/madeleine-mccann-missing-abduction-parents-legal-battle-goncalo-amaral-police-claims-portugal-a7588281.html

 

Judges said the archiving of the criminal case did not equate to the McCanns being cleared of criminal responsibility. 

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6 hours ago, redheart said:

 

Good lord is that the best that you can do.

 

  • DNA samples in the apartment, in the car and on items connected with Kate (e.g. cuddle cat);

Even if DNA samples were in the car and other items it can be transferred indirectly. Thus cuddle your child and then pick up a teddy bear of take something out of the book of a car and it can get transferred.

 

  • Cadaver odour

Even those who accept the reliability of this make it clear they cannot detect who died or when. Indeed they accept that cadaver smells can last for decades. There are few houses/apartments etc which have not seen a death in them. These smells can also be transferred along with furniture from other buildings where someone has died.

  • Changes of the McCanns story (e.g. from forced entry through the window shutters to walking through unlocked doors);

FFS. They were being asked in a moment of blind terror and shock. You leap to a range of conclusions. Ask any parent who has lost sight of their child for even a minute in the supermarket. You suddenly panic and think everyone in their is a potential abductor.

  • Behaviour of the McCanns (Kate refusing to answer questions under police caution, no physical search for Madeleine by the McCanns, refusing to take part in a police reconstruction, Kate washing cuddle cat before the dogs arrived

All this amounts to nothing. BY the time they were being interviewed they could have felt let down by shitty police, and now being railroaded by vested interests. They had declared them suspects so why answer? A physical search? Where? Their child had vanished and it leads to blind panic.

 

  • Inconsistent statements of the McCanns' friends;

Jeez. Everyone knows that eye witness testimony is unreliable. And the inconsistent statements are about minor things that you do not pay that much attention to at the time (such as how frequently the apartments were checked on, what times, by whom) especially when out dining with a group and drinking. So to latch on these types of minor inconsistences is simply nonsense.

 

  • Staged crime scene; 

What on earth does this even mean? It is not evidence it is a conclusion and one without any justification offered.

 

  • Lack of evidence Madeleine was alive from Sunday 29th April onwards (no photos, no corroborated sightings)

Oh do kindly fuck off.  Not everyone takes lots of pictures at all times etc. No evidence she was alive etc. Simply nonsense.

 

There is no significant evidence that the McCanns did it.

 

The most likely answer is an opportunistic paedophile struck lucky when he realised how shitty the parents were, he took here and did what they do and disposed of the body.

I don't think you need to be insulting to TK,just put your side of the story. A few people are taking the piss out of him but aren't giving any other alternatives. As I said earlier in the thread,I am interested in both sides so would welcome some alternative evidence to maybe support a kidnap or other theories.

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The whole thing fucking stinks and always has done.  TK is taking a lot of shit in here and people are putting words in his mouth all over the show.  He’s clearly just pointing out all the shit that is either odd or just downright wrong.  If you want to just accept what seems to be the official version now then fine but there’s plenty of people who I think are rightly suspicious of the police and political motives.  Personally I don’t know what to believe but I’m not having all this “they were panicking parents etc”. They’ve never answered various questions by police it “conspiracy theorists” and refuse to take part in documentaries where they could clearly put all this shit to bed if they wanted.  I don’t think TK is saying you could convict them in a court of law on any of this but it’s enough for people to have an opinion on it either way.

 

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58 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I don't think you need to be insulting to TK,just put your side of the story. A few people are taking the piss out of him but aren't giving any other alternatives. As I said earlier in the thread,I am interested in both sides so would welcome some alternative evidence to maybe support a kidnap or other theories.

The guy calling people piggies? Fuck him. 

 

And his bowling was wank.  

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3 minutes ago, The Guest said:

The whole thing fucking stinks and always has done.  TK is taking a lot of shit in here and people are putting words in his mouth all over the show.  He’s clearly just pointing out all the shit that is either odd or just downright wrong.  If you want to just accept what seems to be the official version now then fine but there’s plenty of people who I think are rightly suspicious of the police and political motives.  Personally I don’t know what to believe but I’m not having all this “they were panicking parents etc”. They’ve never answered various questions by police it “conspiracy theorists” and refuse to take part in documentaries where they could clearly put all this shit to bed if they wanted.  I don’t think TK is saying you could convict them in a court of law on any of this but it’s enough for people to have an opinion on it either way.

 

I am someone who thinks they probably know more than they claim, but how would them going on a documentary put that to bed? If they are genuinely innocent, what can they possibly say that can clear them? The issue here as far as I'm concerned, is there appears to be no clear evidence to support any theory solidly, let alone point a finger at an individual. Both the UK and Portuguese investigations were questionable in both quality and objectivity and because of this, it makes it next to impossible to have a genuine idea of what happened. 

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5 minutes ago, The Guest said:

The whole thing fucking stinks and always has done.  TK is taking a lot of shit in here and people are putting words in his mouth all over the show.  He’s clearly just pointing out all the shit that is either odd or just downright wrong.  If you want to just accept what seems to be the official version now then fine but there’s plenty of people who I think are rightly suspicious of the police and political motives.  Personally I don’t know what to believe but I’m not having all this “they were panicking parents etc”. They’ve never answered various questions by police it “conspiracy theorists” and refuse to take part in documentaries where they could clearly put all this shit to bed if they wanted.  I don’t think TK is saying you could convict them in a court of law on any of this but it’s enough for people to have an opinion on it either way.

 

You mean like the natural response to a dramatic traumatic scenario meaning that the McCanns would have perfect recall?  

 

Now, I wonder if we have any lawyers on here who’d back that up and confirm that witness evidence is so ultra reliable due to this evolutionary marvel?   

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1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

 I asked people to stop taking the piss and give alternatives. I'd like to hear any theories you have rather than your usual snidey remarks on the topic. Theorise away by all means.

I don’t have any theories, why the fuck would I? It happened thousands of miles away and I don’t know anyone involved.  

 

No one else thinks they parents did it other than a crank copper and internet weirdos.  Imagine being obsessed with a dead child and clutching at straws hoping the parents killed her.  

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3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I don’t have any theories, why the fuck would I? It happened thousands of miles away and I don’t know anyone involved.  

 

No one else thinks they parents did it other than a crank copper and internet weirdos.  Imagine being obsessed with a dead child and clutching at straws hoping the parents killed her.  

I don't think anybody wants the girl to be dead but after 12 years its highly likely she is,and the parents should be the prime suspects given that they were most likely the last people to see their daughter. If you're not interested or don't care then why are you posting in the thread?

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1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I don't think anybody wants the girl to be dead but after 12 years its highly likely she is,and the parents should be the prime suspects given that they were most likely the last people to see their daughter. If you're not interested or don't care then why are you posting in the thread?

There’s an entire industry involved in this, it’s morbid as fuck. 

 

Did you actually mean what you wrote then?  The parents should be suspects, of course, but if there’s no evidence then that stops.  Should Ben Needhams mum still be a suspect? 

 

For some reason they aren’t likeable and that means people continue to accuse them of killing their kid. How fucking mad is that?  

 

TK seems to think that 2 European governments, the police, the press and seemingly the children of police are in a gigantic conspiracy to protect the parents of a couple of unknown doctors who tried to cover up a death. All arranged in days, and continued for years. With zero leaks, zero defections and people who’ve got pissed, got high, got guilty, got god, got cold feet, left any records, lost any records, had any records hacked. 

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8 hours ago, redheart said:

 

Good lord is that the best that you can do.

 

  • DNA samples in the apartment, in the car and on items connected with Kate (e.g. cuddle cat);

Even if DNA samples were in the car and other items it can be transferred indirectly. Thus cuddle your child and then pick up a teddy bear of take something out of the book of a car and it can get transferred.

 

  • Cadaver odour

Even those who accept the reliability of this make it clear they cannot detect who died or when. Indeed they accept that cadaver smells can last for decades. There are few houses/apartments etc which have not seen a death in them. These smells can also be transferred along with furniture from other buildings where someone has died.

  • Changes of the McCanns story (e.g. from forced entry through the window shutters to walking through unlocked doors);

FFS. They were being asked in a moment of blind terror and shock. You leap to a range of conclusions. Ask any parent who has lost sight of their child for even a minute in the supermarket. You suddenly panic and think everyone in their is a potential abductor.

  • Behaviour of the McCanns (Kate refusing to answer questions under police caution, no physical search for Madeleine by the McCanns, refusing to take part in a police reconstruction, Kate washing cuddle cat before the dogs arrived

All this amounts to nothing. BY the time they were being interviewed they could have felt let down by shitty police, and now being railroaded by vested interests. They had declared them suspects so why answer? A physical search? Where? Their child had vanished and it leads to blind panic.

 

  • Inconsistent statements of the McCanns' friends;

Jeez. Everyone knows that eye witness testimony is unreliable. And the inconsistent statements are about minor things that you do not pay that much attention to at the time (such as how frequently the apartments were checked on, what times, by whom) especially when out dining with a group and drinking. So to latch on these types of minor inconsistences is simply nonsense.

 

  • Staged crime scene; 

What on earth does this even mean? It is not evidence it is a conclusion and one without any justification offered.

 

  • Lack of evidence Madeleine was alive from Sunday 29th April onwards (no photos, no corroborated sightings)

Oh do kindly fuck off.  Not everyone takes lots of pictures at all times etc. No evidence she was alive etc. Simply nonsense.

 

There is no significant evidence that the McCanns did it.

 

The most likely answer is an opportunistic paedophile struck lucky when he realised how shitty the parents were, he took here and did what they do and disposed of the body.

 

I don't know what happened but there is much less evidence for an abduction.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

There’s an entire industry involved in this, it’s morbid as fuck. 

 

Did you actually mean what you wrote then?  The parents should be suspects, of course, but if there’s no evidence then that stops.  Should Ben Needhams mum still be a suspect? 

 

For some reason they aren’t likeable and that means people continue to accuse them of killing their kid. How fucking mad is that?  

 

TK seems to think that 2 European governments, the police, the press and seemingly the children of police are in a gigantic conspiracy to protect the parents of a couple of unknown doctors who tried to cover up a death. All arranged in days, and continued for years. With zero leaks, zero defections and people who’ve got pissed, got high, got guilty, got god, got cold feet, left any records, lost any records, had any records hacked. 

I am simply reacting to this post and information and theories in it. I've never watched a programme on it or listened to any theories involved as I find it an absolutely horrible situation for anybody to be in. Looking at it from an outside perspective,I am extremely surprised that no evidence has arose around a child abduction/murder plot and would say that parental involvement looks the most likely theory. The absence of evidence for either of the two main theories,the parents or a kidnapper,is highly unusual though and this is what is feeding the 'industry' you speak of. I don't think TKs theory is as batshit as you think it is until there is a more plausible alternative. Until that happens the parents will be treated as highly suspicious by a lot of people. I also think the 'the parents are not liked' angle is because these parents are highly educated people yet have shown less care for their kids than many of those tabloid headlines regarding lower income and poorer educated families,which is a slightly different issue but one which shapes outsiders perceptions.

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Was there ever any solid evidence that the McCanns knew the convicted paedo with the big mansion just up the coast from the resort? 

 

None of us know what happened either way and there are enough claims on both sides to support either. Not worth falling out over it though when as I said, none of us actually know what happened. 

 

The more you press the point the more you look like you're involved. TK/Rico.... where were ya'll that night? 

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/how-clement-freud-invited-kate-and-gerry-mccann-for-lunch-after/

Kate and Gerry McCann were two months into the search for their missing daughter Madeleine when they received a letter out of the blue.

It was from Sir Clement Freud, inviting them for a meal at his holiday home in Praia da Luz, a short drive from the Ocean Club, where Madeleine had vanished on May 3, 2007.

“I’m embarrassed to admit that Gerry and I thought this letter was a hoax,” Mrs McCann wrote in her book, Madeleine.

 

Gerry McCann phoned the number on the letter, discovered it was not a prank, and the next day the McCanns were at Freud’s villa with their twins Sean and Amelie, plus three friends who had stayed in Portugal to help them.

Freud, 83, broke the ice by offering them strawberry vodka....

 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, 1001000 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/how-clement-freud-invited-kate-and-gerry-mccann-for-lunch-after/

Kate and Gerry McCann were two months into the search for their missing daughter Madeleine when they received a letter out of the blue.

It was from Sir Clement Freud, inviting them for a meal at his holiday home in Praia da Luz, a short drive from the Ocean Club, where Madeleine had vanished on May 3, 2007.

“I’m embarrassed to admit that Gerry and I thought this letter was a hoax,” Mrs McCann wrote in her book, Madeleine.

 

Gerry McCann phoned the number on the letter, discovered it was not a prank, and the next day the McCanns were at Freud’s villa with their twins Sean and Amelie, plus three friends who had stayed in Portugal to help them.

Freud, 83, broke the ice by offering them strawberry vodka....

 
 

 

Wasn't Freud a prime nonce?

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/sir-clement-freud-exposed-as-a-paedophile-as-police-urged-to-pro/

 

Sir Clement Freud, the former broadcaster and politician, was exposed on Tuesday night as a paedophile who sexually abused girls as young as 10 for decades.

Freud, who died in 2009, spent years abusing a girl who he brought up as a daughter, and violently raped a teenager while he was an MP.

His widow, Lady Freud, has apologised to his victims, saying she is “shocked, deeply saddened and profoundly sorry” for what her husband of 58 years did to them.

 

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been alerted to the fact that Freud had a villa in Praia da Luz, Portugal, the resort where the three-year-old went missing in 2007.

He befriended the McCanns in the weeks after their daughter went missing, entertaining them at his house on two occasions and keeping in contact by phone and email.

The McCanns are said to be “horrified” by the discovery that Freud was a paedophile.

His family, who include the PR executive Matthew Freud, have said that Freud was not in Portugal at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance and that they have not been contacted by police.

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