The McCanns...

[Anny Road]

Gordon Brown had something like 9 conversations with Mr McCann in the days following the 'disappearance'. That's pretty odd. The fact that they have not been charged with neglect is also pretty odd. The references to Maddie in the past tense, the refusal to help the police, it all just stinks.

Why is that odd? It was massively high profile.

Do you know the law on negligence in Portugal? I don’t. Plus would a charge of negligence if applicable effect any future trial for Madeleines disappearance?

Would you fully cooperate with a police force who had made numerous errors, had named you as a suspect and questioned you as such?

If you had done it would you campaign and lobby for Scotland Yard to investigate further or hope it disappears.

When I talk about my daughter on holiday last year I say she was a pain in the arse and it is so different from holidays when she was little because she was so well behaved then. I’ve not killed her. Yet.

[Anny Road]

Rumor vs. evidence in Madeleine McCann case

Did the Portuguese police botch the investigation or are the parents guilty?

COMMENTARY

By Clint Van Zandt

updated 5:59 p.m. ET Nov. 4, 2007

Dr. Kate McCann stared out of the window of the plane flying her, her husband, and two of their three children from Portugal to their home in Great Britain. According to the media, fellow passengers later that her expression indicated her sadness at having to leave Portugal without her precious daughter, Madeleine, while others cynically suggest she was happy to be escaping the pressures of being named as a police suspect in the disappearance of her daughter some four months ago.

 

One “investigative” tactic of the Portuguese police seems to be to leak information to the media in an attempt to put pressure on the McCanns and to suggest that the police were actually carrying out a professional investigation and not simply flailing their arms against two grieving parents, while they haven't targeted in the absence of other credible suspects. Media sources in both Portugal and Great Britain have reported that with the help and assistance of British police, something the Portuguese seemed to have resisted in the initial stage of this case, significant physical evidence has been found to link the McCanns, especially Kate, to the disappearance and believed death of Madeleine.

 

Their working theory

Police seem to have adopted a working theory that the McCanns, wanting to have a night out without being concerned with constantly caring for and checking on then 3-year-old Madeleine and her two-year-old twin brother and sister, intentionally sedated Madeleine with her subsequently expiring due to an overdose of sedative. Everything after her death, the police seem to suggest through tabloid leaks, was a massive cover-up on the level of the JFK murder or the downing of TWA 800, or so many other conspiracy theories.

 

This working theory suggests that the McCanns, both medical doctors, found Madeleine dead, hid her body for almost a month, and them moved her body to some unknown disposal site. This theory (according to the media from alleged police leaks), is supported by the finding of blood spatter in the resort apartment rented by the McCann family, the reactions of a British sniffer dog to the presence of blood the dog identified as Madeleine’s, and DNA examination of forensic evidence found in the trunk of an automobile the McCann’s rented some 25 days after Madeleine’s disappearance. The theory goes on to suggest that Madeleine’s blood was found in the trunk, thereby indicating that sometime after renting the car the McCann’s used it to transport Madeleine’s long since dead body. Another sniffer dog allegedly reacted to “the presence of death” in the apartment used by the McCanns and had a similar reaction to clothing worn by Kate McCann and to a doll used by Madeleine.

 

Missing in this theory, of course, is some spokesperson from the DNA lab or British police confirming these reports and suggesting their belief of what such “evidence” may mean to this case. Also missing is any suggestion as to why, if having died of an overdose of some type of sedative, that Madeleine’s blood would have been found in the apartment or the car, or of where the McCann’s could have concealed their daughter’s body for 25 plus days. Or any guess as to how they could have secretly retrieved Madeleine’s body, placed it in the trunk of the rented car, and drove unobserved to some secret, probably predetermined body disposal site where they may have unceremoniously dumped their oldest child’s body and just as stealthfully returned to their rented apartment, totally undetected by law enforcement, the media, the public or the ever watchful paparazzi.

 

Many, like me, see the similiarities drawn by Madeleine’s parents to the investigation conducted in the United States over a decade ago— the one surrounding the death of Jon Benet Ramsey.

 

In both cases there is more than enough information to suggest that the investigators were either slow to respond, careless, or even inept in the way they investigated the reported the disappearance of both young girls. We know, of course, Jon Benet’s disappearance quickly became an unsolved murder investigation, while Madeleine’s disappearance is still a life or death mystery.

 

Motive, of course, is always important in such cases. In the case of Jon Benet Ramsey, some believe her death was accidental, something done in anger, frustration, or rage that was the result of her contact with a member of her immediate family. In such a theory the Ramseys, and likewise the McCanns, would have had to have thought, “We’ve lost one child; we’re not going to lose another or even lose our entire family through this terrible accidental death.” But why, in the case of Madeleine McCann, would two medical doctors concoct such a story, perpetuate such a lie, and go on to deceive millions of people in a faked quest to find their allegedly kidnapped child? Again, if the ongoing tabloid theory— one apparently planted by the Portuguese police— was true, then the McCanns shared in the responsibility of sedating their daughter and believed they would have had their remaining two children taken away from them while they both went to prison for manslaughter. "That's motive enough," some would say.

 

But if this theory is wrong; if the McCanns had nothing to do with Madeleine’s disappearance, nothing other than an unhealthy dose of parental neglect for leaving their three children unattended while they dined and drink with friends the night Madeleine disappeared, then Gerry McCann and Kate, like John and Patsy before them, may have suffered a double loss: that of losing a child and being accused of the loss of that child. In the case of Jon Benet, forensic evidence linking any offender to her death was either never found, or was lost, or was subsequently proven to be of no consequence in linking the person or persons responsible with the death of young Jon Benet.

 

Physical evidence, if any, that links anyone with the disappearance and possible death of Madeleine has yet to be officially disclosed. We know that some such evidence was allegedly found weeks or months later; this in the apartment that was originally rented by the McCanns and one that Madeleine may have died in (the suggested police theory). Dozens, perhaps hundreds of people had been in and out this apartment since it was vacated by the McCanns and prior to the finding of the suggested evidence, therefore this “evidence” may be questionable at best. Kate McCann has indicated that as a medical doctor, she has had contact with a number of deceased individuals, perhaps accounting for the “smell of death” on her clothing. The blood evidence in the trunk of their rented car? Some believe that it could have been planted by the Portuguese police, noting that agency is under investigation for allegedly beating a confession out of a mother who was a suspect in her daughter’s disappearance, a woman later imprisoned although her daughter was never found. Others believe it could be evidence of Madeleine’s presence, thereby suggesting her parents ability to hide, retrieve, move and dispose of her body almost a month into this investigation, something that would challenge the skills of fellow Brit James Bond.

Other evidence, however, is also believed to exist. Again the tabloids report that police have had the McCanns under 24/7 surveillance for over a month, and that these same police have secretly recorded intimate conservations between the McCanns, suggesting, perhaps the presence of recording devices in their apartment, their bedroom, and possibly in their vehicle. No transcripts have yet been released, so again we know of only rumor and conjecture, and nothing concrete that says that during pillow talk, the McCanns discussed their suggested role in the disappearance and death of their daughter.

 

I don’t see a sniffer dog raising its right paw to testify in any type of legal proceeding against the McCanns (although the dog handler could interpret the dog’s reaction to various stimulants).

 

As they have now been officially named as the only two current suspects in this case, certain legal rights, including the right to review the evidence against them, should be afforded the McCanns. Gerry, Kate and their two children are now back in the U.K. and away from the questions of Portuguese police and the ever present media and the mocking local public. We know that Portuguese tourism and the credibility of both the Portuguese police and of the country itself were under daily scrutiny. Most locals want this case and the parents of the missing child, like in the case of missing Natalee Holloway from Aruba some two years ago, to just go away. Could the Portuguese, in their frustration to solve this case and their desire to otherwise make it “go away” have zeroed in on Madeleine’s parents as a means of forcing them to leave Portugal and take the embarrassment of this unsolved, and perhaps botched investigation home with them so life could go on in Portugal? If so, it appears that the Portuguese have at least succeeded in this phase of their investigation.

 

But what if Gerry and Kate actually had something to do with the disappearance and the suspected death of their daughter? Can the rumors about physical evidence really prove beyond a “CSI” style doubt that they, to the exclusion of some international child theft ring, or some local pedophile, were ultimately responsible for the loss of their pretty-eyed, now 4-year-old daughter? Time will tell. Eventually, fact and reality will replace the rumors, speculation and lies that abound in this tragic case.

 

If the McCanns had anything to do with Madeleine’s disappearance and ultimate demise, they will have dampened the human spirit and compassion of millions around the world in their attempt to spare themselves from responsibility. This is a story that may not have any kind of happy ending, short of the miraculous return of Madeleine like in the recovery of kidnapped Utah teenager Elizabeth Smart. We hope for just such a miracle.

 

 

 

Clint Van Zandt is a former FBI Agent, behavioral profiler and hostage negotiator as well as an MSNBC Analyst. His web site www.LiveSecure.org provides readers with security related information.

 

© 2013 msnbc.com Reprints

[Fowlers God]

Amaral was himself an arguido in relation to his investigation of another case, the disappearance of Joana Cipriano. One day after Madeleine's disappearance, Amaral was made arguido, and a month later he was charged with making a false statement. Four other officers were charged with assault. Eight-year-old Joana had vanished in 2004 from Figueira, seven miles (11 km) from Praia da Luz. Her body was never found, and no murder weapon was identified. Her mother and the mother's brother were convicted of her murder after confessing, but the mother retracted her confession, saying she had been beaten by police. Amaral was not present when the beating is alleged to have taken place, but he was accused of having covered up for others. The other detectives were acquitted. Amaral was convicted of perjury in May 2009 and received an 18-month suspended sentence.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann

 

 

Sounds the reliable type to believe. Rather than two Doctors with no previous or direct evidence against them.

Are you a parent Anny?

 

Would you ever admit to killing your child? Even if you were being beaten or had a gun to your head, would you? Nope. I wouldn’t.

[Anny Road]

I’ve got 3 girls mate.

People have wrongly confessed to a lot worse mate. You’d be surprised what you would do under extreme conditions.

[Anny Road]

Are you a parent Anny?

Would you ever admit to killing your child? Even if you were being beaten or had a gun to your head, would you? Nope. I wouldn’t.

The point is he lied in court under oath.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

They were not charged of neglect out of " compassion " by the Portuguese Police.

 

The Law side of it apparently.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/kate-gerry-mccann-vow-fight-10060709

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Apologies for the other twats mentioned but it was the first I found and couldn't be arsed. More about the parents standing in law.

 

I like others would have thought it was neglect.

[Anny Road]

They were not charged of neglect out of " compassion " by the Portuguese Police.

 

The Law side of it apparently.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/kate-gerry-mccann-vow-fight-10060709

Ha ha. Never thought I'd see Jodie Marsh and Kate Hopkins used as references in a debate on international law.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Ha ha. Never thought I'd see Jodie Marsh and Kate Hopkins used as references in a debate on international law.

I know sorry lads, put a search in and it was the first come up, then the phone went.

[TheBitch]

Are you a parent Anny?

 

Would you ever admit to killing your child? Even if you were being beaten or had a gun to your head, would you? Nope. I wouldn’t.

 

I've got none, so I'm probably way out of line here, but if I honestly don't think I could live with the lie and would rather fess up and suffer the consequences than carry on pretending I wasn't guilty.

 

Edit: I think I've got the wrong end of the stick here..

 

Ignore me.

[Anny Road]

I've got none, so I'm probably way out of line here, but if I honestly don't think I could live with the lie and would rather fess up and suffer the consequences than carry on pretending I wasn't guilty.

 

Edit: I think I've got the wrong end of the stick here..

 

Ignore me.

Not sure why but that is a brilliant post.

[Winston Wolf]

People who have never committed any known crime are always known to act as if nothing has happened when someone in their party announces that they have killed their Daughter and need an alibi around 9ish. Absolute fucking shite.

 

There isn't a shred of verifiable evidence to suggest that the McCanns killed Madelaine.

 

To say that the British Government and Police are somehow shielding an unimportant and otherwise no mark family abroad on holiday is fucking lunacy.

 

You can argue neglect, certainly, but there for the grace of fucking God go a lot of parents without the horrendous result that these parents suffered.

 

The inverse class bias is also fucking shite. They have been vilified, by everyone, granted, after the dust settled, papers like The Daily Mail may have gone easier on them than most, but that is their core audience. That's what they do. I'm not Middle class and have no affiliation to anyone in this case.

 

The argument that some scum family who fucked off down the boozer and left their kids, might, to a very small extent be relevant, but they didn't actually do that did they? They went to a place about 80 yards down the way and checked on the kids after bedtime on a regular basis, the same as the night before.

 

Was it a misjudgement? Certainly, given the outcome, but this is just a load of bollocks for cunts who want to feel better about themselves to throw some shit about. How many other parents have done the same thing without consequences? I bet fucking loads.

 

These people have lost their child. The fucker to blame is the bastard who took her.

 

Is Madelaine still alive? No of course she isn't. Was she dead within 24 hours of being taken? Most likely.

 

This is just a vehicle for a load of cunts to either indulge in shooters on the grassy knoll shit or to feel better about themselves and to ask "ah yeah, but have you ever been a parent?" or say "yeah, I've never done that and I'm a parent" despite doing a similar thing themsleves and never having to pay the ultimate price.

 

This bollocks about funding for a 'middle class family' is also fucking crap. The Shannon Matthews incident also got top priority funding, same any other ongoing child abduction investiagtion. It just turns out that her Mum was a fucking simple, criminogenic mong.

 

Do you lot really think that IF the UK Police really, really belived that the McCanns were guilty that they wouldn't have been charged by now?

 

The sooner that the poor child's body is found and the real perpetrator is found, the less we all have to suffer the "her eyes are too close together" and "there's just something about her I don't like" trial by fucking mongs that we have now.

 

There isn't a fucking shred of reliable, objective, impartial and conclusive evidence that the girl was killed by her parents.

 

Until such times, let's fuck this blame the victim culture off.

 

If you got burgled and the Police said "ah yeah, but did you go out? You see, it's your fault then" you'd go fucking mad.

 

If you stood outside a pub having a ciggy and somebody you'd never met chinned you and walked off and the Police said "ah yea, but you were out you see, so it's your fault" or in a Rape case the CPS said to the victim "yes, but you were out and wearing green, so we have no sympathy for you"we wou;d all, quite rightly go fucking ballistic.

 

These are two people, rightly or wrongly decided to go out for a meal, after their kids bedtime, like they did the night before, and like millions of other parents have done, despite all the "I'm the perfect parent" shit, and paid massively dearly. They lost their Daughter.

 

There isn't any evidence at all that they did it, or that there was a cover up or that they are being 'shielded' bu a Government' Left or Right that gives a fuck about criminal behaviour abroad or at home by British citizens.  The Foreign Office took fucking ages to get a Woman who took a teddy Bear into a schoolroom in Iran free. Do we really, really think than the weight of the British Justice system is behind two nobody parents who showed no signs of behaviour concimmitant with murdering their child? All you fucking 'great parents' out there, after murdering your Daughter, what would you do?

 

Some of you lot have properly lost the run of yourselves.

[Pureblood]

That's pure nonsense.

[Jay86]

She’s dead and whether they physically done it or covered it up it’s 100% all on them. If you leave your keys in your car and leave the engine on and decide to go out for the night don’t be so surprised when it’s been stolen, that’s all on you same way as these idiot parents are to blame. Who the fuck leaves their two young children on their own while you go out for food and a piss up.

 

I haven’t got evidence nor can I be bothered to find any of the shit I’ve read and seen over the past 10 years but I think they accidentally did it and have covered it up since, if your going to pretend you haven’t done it the best thing to do is to appeal for witnesses and not let it be forgotten, you try to act as you think you would if she had really been taken. The dad comes across as a right oddball, my moneys on Kate doing it and the dad helped her cover it up. They know exactly where she is and what was done with her.

 

For someone more in the know why on Earth have they been given more money? I don’t get it, has there been any fresh evidence to suggest they can find her alive? If not what’s the point? It’s been 10 years, if the McCanns didn’t do it, whoever did would have either dumped her somewhere where she would be found alive or killed her within a few days as she became more and more of a hot property. I don’t think we’ll ever find out, I can’t see them ever admitting to it now and there seems to be so many different scenarios that it’s impossible to figure out which ones are legit.

[Jay86]

People who have never committed any known crime are always known to act as if nothing has happened when someone in their party announces that they have killed their Daughter and need an alibi around 9ish. Absolute fucking shite.

 

There isn't a shred of verifiable evidence to suggest that the McCanns killed Madelaine.

 

To say that the British Government and Police are somehow shielding an unimportant and otherwise no mark family abroad on holiday is fucking lunacy.

 

You can argue neglect, certainly, but there for the grace of fucking God go a lot of parents without the horrendous result that these parents suffered.

 

The inverse class bias is also fucking shite. They have been vilified, by everyone, granted, after the dust settled, papers like The Daily Mail may have gone easier on them than most, but that is their core audience. That's what they do. I'm not Middle class and have no affiliation to anyone in this case.

 

The argument that some scum family who fucked off down the boozer and left their kids, might, to a very small extent be relevant, but they didn't actually do that did they? They went to a place about 80 yards down the way and checked on the kids after bedtime on a regular basis, the same as the night before.

 

Was it a misjudgement? Certainly, given the outcome, but this is just a load of bollocks for cunts who want to feel better about themselves to throw some shit about. How many other parents have done the same thing without consequences? I bet fucking loads.

 

These people have lost their child. The fucker to blame is the bastard who took her.

 

Is Madelaine still alive? No of course she isn't. Was she dead within 24 hours of being taken? Most likely.

 

This is just a vehicle for a load of cunts to either indulge in shooters on the grassy knoll shit or to feel better about themselves and to ask "ah yeah, but have you ever been a parent?" or say "yeah, I've never done that and I'm a parent" despite doing a similar thing themsleves and never having to pay the ultimate price.

 

This bollocks about funding for a 'middle class family' is also fucking crap. The Shannon Matthews incident also got top priority funding, same any other ongoing child abduction investiagtion. It just turns out that her Mum was a fucking simple, criminogenic mong.

 

Do you lot really think that IF the UK Police really, really belived that the McCanns were guilty that they wouldn't have been charged by now?

 

The sooner that the poor child's body is found and the real perpetrator is found, the less we all have to suffer the "her eyes are too close together" and "there's just something about her I don't like" trial by fucking mongs that we have now.

 

There isn't a fucking shred of reliable, objective, impartial and conclusive evidence that the girl was killed by her parents.

 

Until such times, let's fuck this blame the victim culture off.

 

If you got burgled and the Police said "ah yeah, but did you go out? You see, it's your fault then" you'd go fucking mad.

 

If you stood outside a pub having a ciggy and somebody you'd never met chinned you and walked off and the Police said "ah yea, but you were out you see, so it's your fault" or in a Rape case the CPS said to the victim "yes, but you were out and wearing green, so we have no sympathy for you"we wou;d all, quite rightly go fucking ballistic.

 

These are two people, rightly or wrongly decided to go out for a meal, after their kids bedtime, like they did the night before, and like millions of other parents have done, despite all the "I'm the perfect parent" shit, and paid massively dearly. They lost their Daughter.

 

There isn't any evidence at all that they did it, or that there was a cover up or that they are being 'shielded' bu a Government' Left or Right that gives a fuck about criminal behaviour abroad or at home by British citizens. The Foreign Office took fucking ages to get a Woman who took a teddy Bear into a schoolroom in Iran free. Do we really, really think than the weight of the British Justice system is behind two nobody parents who showed no signs of behaviour concimmitant with murdering their child? All you fucking 'great parents' out there, after murdering your Daughter, what would you do?

 

Some of you lot have properly lost the run of yourselves.

Good one.

[Anny Road]

She’s dead and whether they physically done it or covered it up it’s 100% all on them. If you leave your keys in your car and leave the engine on and decide to go out for the night don’t be so surprised when it’s been stolen, that’s all on you same way as these idiot parents are to blame. Who the fuck leaves their two young children on their own while you go out for food and a piss up.

I haven’t got evidence nor can I be bothered to find any of the shit I’ve read and seen over the past 10 years but I think they accidentally did it and have covered it up since, if your going to pretend you haven’t done it the best thing to do is to appeal for witnesses and not let it be forgotten, you try to act as you think you would if she had really been taken. The dad comes across as a right oddball, my moneys on Kate doing it and the dad helped her cover it up. They know exactly where she is and what was done with her.

For someone more in the know why on Earth have they been given more money? I don’t get it, has there been any fresh evidence to suggest they can find her alive? If not what’s the point? It’s been 10 years, if the McCanns didn’t do it, whoever did would have either dumped her somewhere where she would be found alive or killed her within a few days as she became more and more of a hot property. I don’t think we’ll ever find out, I can’t see them ever admitting to it now and there seems to be so many different scenarios that it’s impossible to figure out which ones are legit.

How old are you 11.

I’ve taken dumps which could formulate more coherent and valid arguments.

[Pureblood]

The whole "checking routine" was most likely fabricated as part of the cover-up.  Who organises a system of checks every 15 minutes when they are dining out?  Nobody, that's who.  It would completely kill the ambience of the evening.  It is also documented that the resort offered a free baby-sitting/watching service for parents, to enable them to go out in the evenings without worrying about their children.

 

There is evidence to suggest that Madeleine died four days earlier on the Sunday.  This is because there are no known images of her alive after that day.  The so-called "last photo" of her taken by the swimming pool could not have possibly been taken after Sunday 31st May, because the weather on the following days was overcast, whereas on Sunday 31st May the weather was bright and sunny as appears in the photo.  It is a virtual certainty that the last photo was taken on Sunday 31st May given the weather on the following days.  

 

There are no other photos of Madeleine after Sunday 31st May, except for the ludicrous "tennis ball" photo which doesn't even look like Madeleine.  

[Anny Road]

Fuck me.

 

How then did the wonder dog smell her in the car hired 29 days later?

[SasaS]

She's gone, get over it.

[Jay86]

How old are you 11.

I’ve taken dumps which could formulate more coherent and valid arguments.

I was about 19 years ago. I didn’t say I wanted an argument or I didn’t say that I’m an expert. My opinions is that they shouldn’t have left their children alone, whether they went and checked on them or not and that they know what happened to that little girl. I don’t give a shit about what you think or what you think you know, that’s just what I think happened.

[Anny Road]

I was about 19 years ago. I didn’t say I wanted an argument or I didn’t say that I’m an expert. My opinions is that they shouldn’t have left their children alone, whether they went and checked on them or not and that they know what happened to that little girl. I don’t give a shit about what you think or what you think you know, that’s just what I think happened.

If you don’t like arguments you shouldn’t say unsubstantiated shite without anything whatsoever to back it up.

Talk shit you will get challenged.

 

I’ll just leave this line here which you should read again several times.

 

I haven’t got evidence nor can I be bothered to find any of the shit I’ve read and seen over the past 10 years but I think they accidentally did it and have covered it up since,

[Anny Road]

What is the plural noun for mongs?

[Winston Wolf]

That's pure nonsense.

Gold's just around the corner

Breakdown's coming up round the bend

[easytoslip]

What is the plural noun for mongs?

Fuckin' mongii thought every idiot knew that

[Pureblood]

Gold's just around the corner

Breakdown's coming up round the bend

 

 

Sorry, but it is.