Liverpool V Portsmouth Match Thread

[zico]

I am not on a campaign really just expressing an opinion. Every summer we go on about signing a top class winger and then we either buy 3rd choice or get another "in the hole" player. Then someone says "the season will prove Rafa right", then in November we are all crying for a top class winger again! And so on!

 

I agree with a lot of what you say Rashid, but I have to comment on this...

 

As a matter of fact we do not have one single world class "in the hole player", what we have is forwards who all like to drop deep, there is a big difference... And some of them needs to be told to stop and get into the box more often, or we can always buy Villa or Milito..... :thumbup:

 

Diego Ribas at Werder, Anderson at Utd, Kaka at Milan, Nasri at Marseille, Aimar at Zaragoza, Riquelme at Villareal are all such players, we have none at present :no

[Spy Bee]

Diego Ribas at Werder, Anderson at Utd, Kaka at Milan, Nasri at Marseille, Aimar at Zaragoza, Riquelme at Villareal are all such players, we have none at present :no

 

So there are six teams in the whole of Europe that do? I'd hardly say Anderson is proven either.

[Magic_H]

 

The more Ive seen and the more I think about it I just cant fathom out the signing of Yossi..Id defo have Mancini or Quaresma...So its was quantity over Quality and yes I think Rafa chose the wrong option and has made a mistake.......blah blah drone drone

 

 

Liverpool have played nil games, yes nil games this season. Pre season friendlies are gloryfied training sessions essentially, to help the players get match fit and get used to one another, try different systems, formations, etc.

 

Babel, and Yossi, have to be given a chance, and no matter how much you want the wingers you mentioned, they arent going to come this summer, so please stop harping on about it, and get behind the players who are here.

 

The new players have more chance of succeeding if we get behind them, so lets just wait and see.

 

Now is not the time to judge.

[Red Nick]

I'm not sure that's true, Nick. From what little I know, I think we sniffed around Mancini and made no real effort to pursue Quaresma. If Rafa wanted those kind of (for want of a better way of putting it) line-hugging, old school wingers in the team, then why have there been so few (any?) brought into the club among the 50,000 young players we've brought in this summer and last year? I'd suggest that's not just a budgetary issue, but to do with how he wants the game to be played.

 

We've got Pennant, true (although he's a player whose transfer I really do think came from Rafa being compromised financially), and I wouldn't go as far as to say that he sees no place for a player who's there to get down the line and put a cross in - but that that skill alone isn't enough for him, and so a "one trick" winger like Quaresma is never going to have a place at the club, no matter how good they might be at that one trick.

 

I just think if you're the manager of Liverpool and you truly believe that what we need above all else is a tricky, traditional, out-and-out (etc etc) winger, you don't buy Benayoun and Babel, irrespective of budget.

 

 

I just think he was like a kid in a sweetie shop who wanted 4 sweets not 2 super ones and only had x to spend, only Torres & Voronin? look like improving the first 11 IMO

 

I also think the argument about one trick wingers is missing the point whats its more about is having the technical abillity to go past players deliver better quality into the box than we did last season and finish better than we did last season both Quaresma and Mancini offered those qualities

 

Rafa will be judged on this at the end of the season and he will have to justify to the board the signings, I think Yossi will take quite a lot of justification wheras Babel will probably have enough good games to justify himself even if he will be very inconsistent

[Red Nick]

Liverpool have played nil games, yes nil games this season. Pre season friendlies are gloryfied training sessions essentially, to help the players get match fit and get used to one another, try different systems, formations, etc.

 

Babel, and Yossi, have to be given a chance, and no matter how much you want the wingers you mentioned, they arent going to come this summer, so please stop harping on about it, and get behind the players who are here.

 

The new players have more chance of succeeding if we get behind them, so lets just wait and see.

 

Now is not the time to judge.

 

 

Post like that are what are bringing the site down

 

This is a debating forum FFS and everybody is entitled to there point of view

[Lapskaus]

I hate when people say we have to wait and see and judge after the season bla bla....after the season it's too late isnt it? And ofcourse anyone can come up with the correct asessments after the season. What is interesting, is discussing right now what needs to be done and who is and isnt good enough.

[zico]

For 2 of the past 3 seasons its been Joaquin so let's have no revisionism, you were also behind the signing of Pennant. (others were'nt)

 

So you've fucked up twice.

 

And Alves is well ordinairy.

 

:lol:

 

I take it you did not see him win the Copa America final for Brazil then? 1 goal and 1 assist in the 40 minutes he played as a winger(right side midfield).

Or how Sevilla have done this year, and why they are holding out for 20 million pounds for him....

[zico]

Rafa seems to prefer players who can do more than one thing. Heinze seems to be getting lined up as a left-back who can play centre-back. Babel as a winger who can play up front (or vice-versa if you prefer). Benayoun as an attacking midfielder who can play wide or centrally. He's often used full-backs as more advanced players, strikers out wide and so on. He expects them to smile when he plays them there too.

 

Maybe that's a mistake from Rafa - maybe our players should be masters of one trade rather than a jack of all, but that's how Rafa seems to do it.

 

Nicely put!!!

 

And as far as I am concerned I think Rafa is to obsessed with this theory of plyers being able to play anywhere as it gives him options. It´s the same with the strikers, he wants them all to be able to hold the ball up as well as score goals, there seems to be no room for the instictive poacher we all crave....

[zico]

So there are six teams in the whole of Europe that do? I'd hardly say Anderson is proven either.

 

Jesus Christ I mentioned 6, but if you follow European football you would know there are plenty of others. I´m not saying that we need one as Rafa probably feels it would break up the balance of the team, but it wold have been nice to have in the CL final as Gerrard is many things but that kind of player he is not!!!!

[Spy Bee]

Post like that are what are bringing the site down

 

Nick you are fucking radical. You are being very negative about the signings Rafa has made and when someone says you might be a bit premature and that they actually need to play in competitive games before you can judge them, you say that they are bringing the forum down.

 

How much do you really know about Babel? How many times have you seen him play? How can you really judge Yossi, because he will be utilised in certain games when we need a breakthrough against an orgaqnised team. Pre season friendlies are no place to judge a player, never mind a new player at a new club.

[Spy Bee]

Jesus Christ I mentioned 6, but if you follow European football you would know there are plenty of others. I´m not saying that we need one as Rafa probably feels it would break up the balance of the team, but it wold have been nice to have in the CL final as Gerrard is many things but that kind of player he is not!!!!

 

I don't think that there are that many at all. I think where one is present the team tends to be built around them, or, in the case of Luis Garcia they only play in certain games. If they only play the occassional game you are nto going to get a world class player. What you will get is a Luis, or a Benayoun.

[zico]

What´s the point of having a 2 meter tall beanpole as a striker if we´re going to have Gerrard driftin inside and nobody to provide the crosses for Crouch to use his God given advantage.... An out-and-out winger would sort this out, and if only Rafa could teach Crouch to attack the ball like he did against Arsenal last season every single time instead of drifting to the back post, perhaps I would even change my willingness to sell him and vote for Kuyt instead...

[Spy Bee]

What´s the point of having a 2 meter tall beanpole as a striker if we´re going to have Gerrard driftin inside and nobody to provide the crosses for Crouch to use his God given advantage.... An out-and-out winger would sort this out, and if only Rafa could teach Crouch to attack the ball like he did against Arsenal last season every single time instead of drifting to the back post, perhaps I would even change my willingness to sell him and vote for Kuyt instead...

 

We all know that Crouch is not your typical big man. He's not a great header of the ball, so your point about wingers is moot.

[Red Nick]

Nick you are fucking radical. You are being very negative about the signings Rafa has made and when someone says you might be a bit premature and that they actually need to play in competitive games before you can judge them, you say that they are bringing the forum down.

 

How much do you really know about Babel? How many times have you seen him play? How can you really judge Yossi, because he will be utilised in certain games when we need a breakthrough against an orgaqnised team. Pre season friendlies are no place to judge a player, never mind a new player at a new club.

 

There wouldnt be a problem if he put it as elequently as you have.

 

Agree with you that we wont know for sure until November time as to how good these players will be but my view at this moment in time is X and that view may change come November but I doubt it

 

Im quite happy to tolerate over people's point of view and would only request other people did the same

[zico]

I don't think that there are that many at all. I think where one is present the team tends to be built around them, or, in the case of Luis Garcia they only play in certain games. If they only play the occassional game you are nto going to get a world class player. What you will get is a Luis, or a Benayoun.

 

I am sure if those occasional games are big games like the CL final etc, you´ll find players willing to come :whistle:

 

This kind of player is needed to break down resilient defenses, of there are many in the PL, so I think there would be plenty of games to play for someone to carve out some opportunities for our strikers...

 

Diego Ribas, player of the year in Germany should be worth a punt

[Spy Bee]

I am sure if those occasional games are big games like the CL final etc, you´ll find players willing to come :whistle:

 

This kind of player is needed to break down resilient defenses, of there are many in the PL, so I think there would be plenty of games to play for someone to carve out some opportunities for our strikers...

 

Diego Ribas, player of the year in Germany should be worth a punt

 

Nobody would come for 1 game a year, even if it was The Champions League Final. I can see your point about the n umber of determined and disciplined defences that we have to break down, but Rafa's first option seems to be to control the game and grind defences into the ground, rather than to rely on some individual flair. If his plan A was to play with a world class link man then I'm sure we would have bought one.

 

I think Rafa just has a different philosophy than you.

[zico]

We all know that Crouch is not your typical big man. He's not a great header of the ball, so your point about wingers is moot.

 

Then why the hell is he still here for then?

 

Torres is our new leader up front and is better than Crouch at pretty much everything.

Both Kuyt and Voronin are both a hell of a lot stronger than Crouch and have the same qualities of holding the ball up.

Babel and Torres are both faster and more skillfull.

 

Unless Crouch becomes more aggressive in the box and uses his height and physique, the future does not look bright for him, at LFC anyway...

[Guest TK-421]

Then why the hell is he still here for then?

 

Because we need a big squad and won't be playing the same eleven players every week. If Torres gets injured and you've sold Crouch, you've got yourself a no target man situation. You'd be neck high in the shit.

[zico]

Nobody would come for 1 game a year, even if it was The Champions League Final. I can see your point about the n umber of determined and disciplined defences that we have to break down, but Rafa's first option seems to be to control the game and grind defences into the ground, rather than to rely on some individual flair. If his plan A was to play with a world class link man then I'm sure we would have bought one.

 

I think Rafa just has a different philosophy than you.

 

At times I feel he does, I agree, but he did utilize Aimar with great success at Valencia if I recall correctly...

 

Aimar did not play in every game but in a lot of those he did he played fantastic.... So in time I think Rafa could look for such a player, but he probably had other priorities ths summer....

[zico]

Because we need a big squad and won't be playing the same eleven players every week. If Torres gets injured and you've sold Crouch, you've got yourself a no target man situation. You'd be neck high in the shit.

 

Voronin and Kuyt have played target man a hell of a lot better than Crouch has in pre-season so I really don´t see the big problem..

 

I would rather have one poacher and 3 target men, than 4 target men up front, and I think a lot of people on here agree with me on this...

 

Anyway I am of for some beers, cheers:thumbup:

[WeAreTheBest]

Glasgow Rangers 2 Chelsea 0 today. At least they're in crisis with us then.

[Spy Bee]

I like this Zico kid; he's fucking crazy.

[Rashid]

Nobody would come for 1 game a year, even if it was The Champions League Final. I can see your point about the n umber of determined and disciplined defences that we have to break down, but Rafa's first option seems to be to control the game and grind defences into the ground, rather than to rely on some individual flair. If his plan A was to play with a world class link man then I'm sure we would have bought one.

 

I think Rafa just has a different philosophy than you.

 

I'd prefer us not to control the game but take risks and go out and win games. Whatever strategy he has for the league, it isn't working!!

[Rashid]

I think your points are mostly directed at me so I wil try and answer them one by one.

 

I think after three years in charge it's pretty clear how Rafa operates and how he's going to continue to operate. At this stage of the game you either think his management is going to bring us more success (including the title), or you don't.

 

I think after 3 years it's pretty obvious that all Liverpool fans and the board want the League Championship - if not that then at least to challenge for it. I think after 3 years and a lot of money spent we are entitled to expect Rafa to challenge for 2nd or 1st place.

 

I think the jury is out on whether his cautious approach, distrust in ultra attacking players and love of 5 man midfield's are going to win us the league. Hence why many of us question his buys. It is not a case of either we are with him or against him, it's a case of discussing our concerns and thoughts on a messageboard.

 

If he'd wanted to sign Quaresma or Simao this summer, he would have done. He didn't. Either people think the decision to buy the players he did buy was one that at least deserves one competitive game before further discussion, or they surely want to see an entirely new manager brought in – because the way he operates is completely at odds with what they want for the club ("fox-in-the-box" strikers and "out and out" Portugese wingers).

 

We tried for Quaresma, Mancini and Simao these past 2 seasons and Rafa decided against them, all three of them due to money. I think he likes players to want to come here, to hold their clubs to ransom to do so etc, but not all players will do that ala Torres.

 

Going back to the fox in the box analogy, I like the system of 4-2-3-1 but only if the last 4 are all proper attacking players and not mixed with centre midfield players and defensive strikers. But Rafa continues to play strikers like Crouch and Kuyt deep and Gerrard as the link player (which he clearly isn't suited to). For that reason I think we need someone in addition to the brilliant all round Torres that will sit inside the box and put away the numerous chances we create.

 

As for Portuguese wingers - one just won the league for Man United. A fancy dan one trick pony too. At Valencia he operated with wingers Rufete and Vincente, had a magician in Aimar operate behind either Carew or Mista. A team he inherited as losers he made into winners. At Liverpool he has had to buy in many players and he has made mistakes, especially up front and on the wings - so little wonder when he goes for players like Benayoun and the young forward Babel that fans ask "where is our winger then"? It doesn't mean we want Rafa out.

 

If someone genuinely believes that Rafa's (zzz) "rotation" and "tinkering" and buying the likes of Benayoun is going to mean we don't get near the title, then surely they should just say he should go rather than repeating themselves ad infinitum. Because, let's face it, after three years in England, he's not going to start doing things differently because he reads the content of this messageboard.

 

Yes, I genuinely believe that too much rotation, tinkering and signing mid table talents like Benayoun won't win us the league. This season I have only really been excited with the Torres signing, and happy with Babel - other than that what's changed from previous seasons?

 

Whether he does things differently or not it won't stop message board members chatting about it - it's only chat!! I openly say that with the money I'd have bought Owen, Quaresma and Torres and been done with it, and if we had those three I would be even more excited than I am now.

 

Shoot me.

[Spy Bee]

I'd prefer us not to control the game but take risks and go out and win games. Whatever strategy he has for the league, it isn't working!!

 

Well regardless of what you prefer this is not Rafa's approach and so he is not going to sign the kind of players suited to that approach.