Thatcher

[Phoenix]

Are you being serious?

 

She is responsible, directly or indirectly, for the shit we find ourselves in now. We have no industry because she sold it off, maybe she wasn't fully complicit, but she rubber stamped it! The fact utility bills, rail travel and property prices are so high is because of that cunt. Fucking short sighted of you not to see all that fucker is responsible, again directly or indirectly, for is myopic in the slightest.

 

We are now seeing the full effects of what she, and her government of the day, did and it's fucking scandalous!!!!

 

Yes the subsequent four prime ministers have no responsibility in where we are now. She was a nob for not providing investment/training in places where needed.

 

capitalism, free marketeering and globalisation.

[VladimirIlyich]

Yes the subsequent four prime ministers have no responsibility in where we are now. She was a nob for not providing investment/training in places where needed.

 

capitalism, free marketeering and globalisation.

 

She was purely a vindictive and evil bitch who hated to be opposed and had no sympathy for those who were less fortunate than herself and her rich friends.

 

Married into a fortune too.

[zigackly]

And she fucked up ice cream. Cow.

[VladimirIlyich]

And she fucked up ice cream. Cow.

 

It was the first of her cuts.

[zigackly]

It was the first of her cuts.

 

Not the deepest though.

 

There are very few people I could genuinely say I would be glad to see dead, but in her case I might do a little jig.

 

I suspect unless you went through poverty in the eighties and saw some of the evil she inflicted on our society at the time, you would never really understand that.

 

And I don't say it lightly.

[Furmedge]

Fuck off Maggie!

[brucespanner]

On May 4, 1979, Margaret Thatcher strode into Number 10 and Britain changed for ever.

 

Standing on the steps, she quoted St Francis of Assisi…

 

“Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope.”

 

What followed was 11 years in which she polarised the country. And 18 years after leaving office, that division remains.

 

Here we look at her policies and how their legacy lives on in today’s Britain…

 

THE BIG BANG

The roots of today’s current financial chaos can be traced directly back to October 27, 1986, when the biggest revolution in the financial markets took place.

 

Thatcher saw London being overtaken as the centre of world finance by New York and she decided that its problem was over-regulation. The

 

Big Bang saw an overhaul of the system with a “light touch” approach

 

to regulating banks and trading. Bonuses went through the roof as “greed is good” became the mantra and the markets became a casino.

 

The legacy: Ultimately, the credit crunch. Weak banking regulations led to the irresponsible lending that triggered today’s crisis. World leaders now call for stricter rules.

 

PRIVATISATION

Thatcher’s market-led policies saw the sale of 20 state-controlled companies including British Telecom.

 

Sales were marked by huge advertising campaigns, like “Tell Sid” for British Gas, which ended with a £5.4billion sell off.

 

She said she wanted to open up share ownership to all. But most people who bought shares in the newly-privatised firms sold quickly to make a quick profit.

 

The proportion of shares held by individuals rather than institutions did not actually increase.

 

The legacy: With the family silver sold off, market forces now set the price. And privatisation is still in the air as Gordon Brown and Lord Mandelson debate the future of the Royal Mail.

 

Yet the Government has also had to part-nationalise several banks to save them from collapse.

 

TRADE UNIONS

Thatcher seized on right-wing jibes that Britain had become the sick man of Europe to launch an unprecedented attack on the trade union movement.

 

Strikes were a regular occurrence and crippled the country. The three-day week was introduced under Edward Heath. And Callaghan’s Labour government in 1978 oversaw the strikes of the Winter of Discontent.

 

On election, Thatcher used the situation as an excuse to crush the unions. She simply refused to listen to the workers’ representatives,.

 

The legacy: Thatcher weakened worker’s rights to the extent that they had little control over their working conditions. Labour introduced the minimum wage but has stopped short of handing over more rights to workers.

 

COAL INDUSTRY

Thatcher was determined to break the miners and engineered their crippling defeat.

 

The Ridley Plan detailed how they would fight, and defeat, a major strike in a nationalised industry. In 1984, the National Union of Mineworkers went out on strike for a year over planned pit closures and their defeat marked the end of serious union might.

 

The legacy: The coal industry was sold off and gradually shut down.

 

Communities had their hearts ripped out when the pit closed and many have still not recovered. High unemployment still haunts many former pit villages along with poverty, suicide and depression.

 

COUNCIL HOUSES

When Thatcher came to power she started a revolution in home ownership by allowing council tenants to buy their own homes.

 

Under the right-to-buy scheme, a discount was given taking into account rent paid over the years.

 

Speculators took advantage of the deals on offer in high demand areas like London and filled their boots by arranging deferred payment deals.

 

The legacy: Increased home ownership led to greater affluence being passed from parents to children.

 

But the disappearance of council homes put great strain on the limited public housing stocks remaining making it harder for poor families to find places to live.

 

And as repossessions soar, there are 1.7 million desperate people on council house waiting lists.

 

POLL TAX

The introduction of the Community Charge for local government sounded the death knell for Thatcherism.

 

Abolishing the old rates system, the charge – quickly dubbed the Poll Tax – was worked out on a flat rate where the number of people living in a house determined its charge rate.

 

Middle England was incensed that a man living in a semi would end up paying the same as a millionaire in a huge mansion down the road.

 

The legacy: Sparked Thatcher’s downfall. The charge divided her party and was an electoral liability which led to her resignation.

 

The Poll Tax was replaced by the Council Tax system.

 

THE ECONOMY

Thatcher tackled high inflation by raising interest rates and slashing public spending.

 

This led to a huge rise in unemployment topping 3.6 million.

 

Recession hit the North and manufacturing industry hardest and factory output dropped by more than 30 per cent.

 

Unemployed workers were told by Norman Tebbit to get on their bikes to look for new jobs. He has since said: “She is blamed for creating three million unemployed. Of course, she didn’t. She exposed the fact that three million people were on the payroll who were not doing a job.”

 

The legacy: The manufacturing industry was decimated and has never recovered as Britain moved to a service economy.

 

 

I'm to young to of lived through it, but I think it's well within reason to say I'm a product of the Thatcher 'legacy'

 

I have had a bottle of Bolly in the fridge from a promise my grandmother, who raised me, made me make 'You open that and celebrate the day that bitch dies' She saw her community, family and friends suffer because of this evil woman.

 

I fully intend to keep that promise and might join Zig in a little jig as well.

[Lee909]

 

I'm to young to of lived through it, but I think it's well within reason to say I'm a product of the Thatcher 'legacy'

 

I have had a bottle of Bolly in the fridge from a promise my grandmother, who raised me, made me make 'You open that and celebrate the day that bitch dies' She saw her community, family and friends suffer because of this evil woman.

 

I fully intend to keep that promise and might join Zig in a little jig as well.

 

You must be a similar age to me.

My mum and grandad brought me up with the same thoughts on that witch.

The horrible thing is down here there are a hell of alot of people who liked her or agree with her.

One of the lads I work with disagreed with unions,his opinion is if you don't like your job or conditions leave.Dont think he liked my reply.

[brucespanner]

You must be a similar age to me.

My mum and grandad brought me up with the same thoughts on that witch.

The horrible thing is down here there are a hell of alot of people who liked her or agree with her.

One of the lads I work with disagreed with unions,his opinion is if you don't like your job or conditions leave.Dont think he liked my reply.

 

Late 20's?

 

The thing that worries me is that New Labour were Thatcherish in their way, but the Tories are taking her ideas to a whole new level!

 

Frightening how quick they are to revert to type, I'm genuinely scared at the prospect of the cuts and legislation they want to push through.

[Lee909]

28

Yeah they have just doing what they do best.I don't think much of the leadership on any party as the are all from the same school of though and class group.

Seems to to be a case of voting for Coke,Diet Coke or Coke Zero,all the bloody same just some slightly more palatable than others.

[Jairzinho]

28

Yeah they have just doing what they do best.I don't think much of the leadership on any party as the are all from the same school of though and class group.

Seems to to be a case of voting for Coke,Diet Coke or Coke Zero,all the bloody same just some slightly more palatable than others.

 

Aye. We need a genuine alternative. Milk perhaps?

[zigackly]

The thing that worries me is that New Labour were Thatcherish in their way, but the Tories are taking her ideas to a whole new level!

 

Written by someone who doesn't remember Norman Tebbit and his ilk!

 

They've been frothing at the mouth to fuck things up again since we last got rid of them, but I don't know if they'll quite manage to sink to the depths they did last time.

 

I will never, ever forgive the lib dems for letting the cunts back into power either.

 

Much as I hate new labour, they are the lesser evil.

 

Let's just hope the voting public realises the colossal fuckup they've made a bit earlier this time and gets the bastards out at the earliest opportunity.

[Section_31]

It is impossible to convey to outsiders or the young why Margaret Thatcher is loathed, to this day, writes Paul Routledge. Her regime began and ended in violence, and during her 11 years in power she obliterated entire communities

 

You have to be at least 40 years old to have voted for her as prime minister the last time she stood for election. The void shows in popular understanding. Probably even most correspondents in the Westminster lobby have no direct knowledge of her decade in power. They have only read about it in books, or heard stories from old men.

 

They weren't there and, just for once, being there was absolutely critical. If you never actually heard her at the Despatch Box shouting, "Never! Never! Never!" or condemning an entire section of loyal working people as "the enemy within", you cannot really grasp what those years were like. They were truly awful, and her malignant legacy soured all who followed her in public life, most dismayingly in the New Labour project.

 

Over the top? Then consider her nicknames at the time. The first, TINA, standing for There Is No Alternative, came from her own cabinet table. Then, the Iron Lady, Moscow's ironic compliment. She Who Must Be Obeyed. Attila the Hen. The Great She-Elephant. The verb "to handbag" was invented for her. Nobody would use such terms now, because they are sexist, but that is how politicians and the people alike understood her. Not that they ever said it to her face, only behind her back - a measure of the fear she inspired almost to the end.

 

In 1979, Thatcher was still rather an unknown quantity. Her time as education secretary in the Ted Heath government was remembered only for her abolition of free milk for schoolchildren over the age of seven, which earned her the sobriquet of Milk Snatcher. Thatcherism as an ideology was still a mad gleam in the eyes of her economic guru Keith Joseph. Everything changed when she turfed complacent Jim Callaghan out of office. Taxes were cut, public spending was slashed and the sell-off of state-owned industries began. The police and armed forces got big pay rises. Europe was served notice that the UK would pursue a doggedly self-serving line.

 

This was the shape of things to come, not all at once, but by degrees, when she was sure the first changes were irreversible. So, her first steps to put working people in their place - by emasculating their unions, under the employment secretary Jim Prior - were tentative. Then, she moved in her hard man, Norman Tebbit, to expose the unions to fines and seizure of funds. Initially it was the National Graphical Association in provincial Warrington, and then the miners across the nation - hated because they were credited with bringing down a Conservative government in 1974. In 1981, not being ready for the final confrontation, she body-swerved the National Union of Mineworkers. Three years later, everything was in place: coal stocks, police powers and preparedness, labour laws and a pliant hit man in the shape of Ian MacGregor, chairman of the National Coal Board. He soon discovered just how disposable were her instruments of power once they had served their purpose (a year after the strike he was out on his ear). The miners were only too aware of their fate.

 

It is virtually impossible to convey to outsiders just how much Thatcher is hated in the former mining communities. Indeed, hatred became common coinage in those unhappy days. The miners' detestation has scarcely abated a quarter-century later, long after they were crushed and their way of life destroyed for ever. There will be street parties in the pit villages when she dies.

 

Yet they were only the most prominent of her victims. Think of the countless steelworkers, British Telecom engineers, water industry employees, British Airways workers, civil servants, dock workers, railwaymen, National Health Service staff, council workers and all the other employees who lost their jobs in the years of priva*tisation. Those workers who now inhabit the twilight, insecure world of temporary contracts, agency work and sacking by text message.

 

Nobody ever "told Sid" (Thatcher's fictional, share-owning Everybloke) it would be that bad. Thatcher knew, and didn't care. Rejoice! Rejoice! In the same way, she did not care about the impact on "the little people" of her Big Bang in the City, which freed the bankers from supervision in 1986 and set building societies on the corrupt road to demutualisation and bankruptcy. There were no rules for the rich, only for the dumb fools who had to punch a time clock every morning: the people who travelled on public transport, whom she labelled as failures in life.

 

No wonder her own family was so dysfunctional. Inevitable, maybe, where such vaunting ambition and manic ideological zeal is at work. "I will roll back socialism for ever," she boasted. Yet she passed on a deadly microbe to society at large (the one she refused to recognise the existence of). Rampant individualism, the devil take the hindmost, beggar thy neighbour - call it what you will, it was a corrosive reflection of her own selfish value system. A politician who can take the train to Glasgow to hector the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland on Christian morality has nothing to learn from others. She didn't just smash the moral compass. She threw it in the sea.

 

It is too easily forgotten that the Thatcher decade began in violence, continued in violence and ended in violence. In 1981, she faced down the IRA hunger strikers, ten of whom died, and brought Republican terror to mainland UK. But the streets were already torn by riots. Brixton went up in flames in April that year and disturbances followed most of the summer, in Toxteth, Bristol, Birmingham, Hull and Preston. In March 1990, countrywide protests greeted the fixing of Thatcher's poll tax, loathed for its inequity and culminating in the worst riots the centre of London had seen in generations.

 

Along with the resignation of the then deputy prime minister, Geoffrey Howe, over her hostility to Europe, this mayhem probably did for her premiership. It was difficult to turn either event to advantage, but she was not above exploiting violence for political ends. With her ratings on the floor in 1982, she sailed with gusto into the Falklands War and called the khaki election of 1983 to capitalise on Britain's successful military campaign. Winning that poll on a wave of jingoism, she unleashed a martial campaign against the miners that confirmed her, in her own mind, as a war hero in the mould of Winston Churchill.

 

Who now remembers these events? Or, for that matter, the Westland helicopter scandal, triggered by her duplicity? Or the resignations of one top minister after another, unable to take any more of her haughty self-absorption? Or the other hideous landmarks of that time, from the introduction of cruise missiles in Britain to the hounding of the Greenham women, from the nauseating billing and cooing with Ronald Reagan to the pompous assertion that she could "do business with" Mikhail Gorbachev, a man infinitely superior to her.

 

As the shadows darken over her mind and she nears death, there is a temptation - devoutly to be resisted - to engage in a cloying collective amnesia about the real Thatcher, and remember only her "good" points. First female party leader, first female prime minister, the Boudicca who restored Britain's place in the world - I can see the headlines in the Daily Mail now. Conservative grandees, with Tony Blair and even Gordon Brown in tow, will queue up to praise the greatest conviction politician of her age. All I ask is that her many offences be taken into consideration before judgment is passed.

 

Perhaps the last word should go to another woman, the actress Lindsay Duncan, the latest to play the part of Thatcher in a television drama. She says: "I loathed her and everything she stood for." Amen.

 

.

[brucespanner]

Written by someone who doesn't remember Norman Tebbit and his ilk!

 

They've been frothing at the mouth to fuck things up again since we last got rid of them, but I don't know if they'll quite manage to sink to the depths they did last time.

 

I will never, ever forgive the lib dems for letting the cunts back into power either.

 

Much as I hate new labour, they are the lesser evil.

 

Let's just hope the voting public realises the colossal fuckup they've made a bit earlier this time and gets the bastards out at the earliest opportunity.

 

Don't worry Zig Grandma Spanner raised a good'un!

 

The Limp Dems lost all respect when they signed a pact with the devil, I was a supporter before, but it'll take a whole fucking lot of change before I think that way again.

 

Only this week we had the 'Claimants' as cheap labour, a smear campaign against the unions and public sector, an affordable homes fire-sale, foreign policy fuck ups and to top it all a report that milk costs to the government are too much per liter, in schools, and need cutting! It's history repeating itself!

[VladimirIlyich]

Quote:

It is impossible to convey to outsiders or the young why Margaret Thatcher is loathed, to this day, writes Paul Routledge. Her regime began and ended in violence, and during her 11 years in power she obliterated entire communities

 

You have to be at least 40 years old to have voted for her as prime minister the last time she stood for election. The void shows in popular understanding. Probably even most correspondents in the Westminster lobby have no direct knowledge of her decade in power. They have only read about it in books, or heard stories from old men.

 

They weren't there and, just for once, being there was absolutely critical. If you never actually heard her at the Despatch Box shouting, "Never! Never! Never!" or condemning an entire section of loyal working people as "the enemy within", you cannot really grasp what those years were like. They were truly awful, and her malignant legacy soured all who followed her in public life, most dismayingly in the New Labour project.

 

Over the top? Then consider her nicknames at the time. The first, TINA, standing for There Is No Alternative, came from her own cabinet table. Then, the Iron Lady, Moscow's ironic compliment. She Who Must Be Obeyed. Attila the Hen. The Great She-Elephant. The verb "to handbag" was invented for her. Nobody would use such terms now, because they are sexist, but that is how politicians and the people alike understood her. Not that they ever said it to her face, only behind her back - a measure of the fear she inspired almost to the end.

 

In 1979, Thatcher was still rather an unknown quantity. Her time as education secretary in the Ted Heath government was remembered only for her abolition of free milk for schoolchildren over the age of seven, which earned her the sobriquet of Milk Snatcher. Thatcherism as an ideology was still a mad gleam in the eyes of her economic guru Keith Joseph. Everything changed when she turfed complacent Jim Callaghan out of office. Taxes were cut, public spending was slashed and the sell-off of state-owned industries began. The police and armed forces got big pay rises. Europe was served notice that the UK would pursue a doggedly self-serving line.

 

This was the shape of things to come, not all at once, but by degrees, when she was sure the first changes were irreversible. So, her first steps to put working people in their place - by emasculating their unions, under the employment secretary Jim Prior - were tentative. Then, she moved in her hard man, Norman Tebbit, to expose the unions to fines and seizure of funds. Initially it was the National Graphical Association in provincial Warrington, and then the miners across the nation - hated because they were credited with bringing down a Conservative government in 1974. In 1981, not being ready for the final confrontation, she body-swerved the National Union of Mineworkers. Three years later, everything was in place: coal stocks, police powers and preparedness, labour laws and a pliant hit man in the shape of Ian MacGregor, chairman of the National Coal Board. He soon discovered just how disposable were her instruments of power once they had served their purpose (a year after the strike he was out on his ear). The miners were only too aware of their fate.

 

It is virtually impossible to convey to outsiders just how much Thatcher is hated in the former mining communities. Indeed, hatred became common coinage in those unhappy days. The miners' detestation has scarcely abated a quarter-century later, long after they were crushed and their way of life destroyed for ever. There will be street parties in the pit villages when she dies.

 

Yet they were only the most prominent of her victims. Think of the countless steelworkers, British Telecom engineers, water industry employees, British Airways workers, civil servants, dock workers, railwaymen, National Health Service staff, council workers and all the other employees who lost their jobs in the years of priva*tisation. Those workers who now inhabit the twilight, insecure world of temporary contracts, agency work and sacking by text message.

 

Nobody ever "told Sid" (Thatcher's fictional, share-owning Everybloke) it would be that bad. Thatcher knew, and didn't care. Rejoice! Rejoice! In the same way, she did not care about the impact on "the little people" of her Big Bang in the City, which freed the bankers from supervision in 1986 and set building societies on the corrupt road to demutualisation and bankruptcy. There were no rules for the rich, only for the dumb fools who had to punch a time clock every morning: the people who travelled on public transport, whom she labelled as failures in life.

 

No wonder her own family was so dysfunctional. Inevitable, maybe, where such vaunting ambition and manic ideological zeal is at work. "I will roll back socialism for ever," she boasted. Yet she passed on a deadly microbe to society at large (the one she refused to recognise the existence of). Rampant individualism, the devil take the hindmost, beggar thy neighbour - call it what you will, it was a corrosive reflection of her own selfish value system. A politician who can take the train to Glasgow to hector the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland on Christian morality has nothing to learn from others. She didn't just smash the moral compass. She threw it in the sea.

 

It is too easily forgotten that the Thatcher decade began in violence, continued in violence and ended in violence. In 1981, she faced down the IRA hunger strikers, ten of whom died, and brought Republican terror to mainland UK. But the streets were already torn by riots. Brixton went up in flames in April that year and disturbances followed most of the summer, in Toxteth, Bristol, Birmingham, Hull and Preston. In March 1990, countrywide protests greeted the fixing of Thatcher's poll tax, loathed for its inequity and culminating in the worst riots the centre of London had seen in generations.

 

Along with the resignation of the then deputy prime minister, Geoffrey Howe, over her hostility to Europe, this mayhem probably did for her premiership. It was difficult to turn either event to advantage, but she was not above exploiting violence for political ends. With her ratings on the floor in 1982, she sailed with gusto into the Falklands War and called the khaki election of 1983 to capitalise on Britain's successful military campaign. Winning that poll on a wave of jingoism, she unleashed a martial campaign against the miners that confirmed her, in her own mind, as a war hero in the mould of Winston Churchill.

 

Who now remembers these events? Or, for that matter, the Westland helicopter scandal, triggered by her duplicity? Or the resignations of one top minister after another, unable to take any more of her haughty self-absorption? Or the other hideous landmarks of that time, from the introduction of cruise missiles in Britain to the hounding of the Greenham women, from the nauseating billing and cooing with Ronald Reagan to the pompous assertion that she could "do business with" Mikhail Gorbachev, a man infinitely superior to her.

 

As the shadows darken over her mind and she nears death, there is a temptation - devoutly to be resisted - to engage in a cloying collective amnesia about the real Thatcher, and remember only her "good" points. First female party leader, first female prime minister, the Boudicca who restored Britain's place in the world - I can see the headlines in the Daily Mail now. Conservative grandees, with Tony Blair and even Gordon Brown in tow, will queue up to praise the greatest conviction politician of her age. All I ask is that her many offences be taken into consideration before judgment is passed.

 

Perhaps the last word should go to another woman, the actress Lindsay Duncan, the latest to play the part of Thatcher in a television drama. She says: "I loathed her and everything she stood for." Amen.

.

What a fantastic article.

I am one of those over 40's who first voted when she was in power and would rather have stabbed my eyes with a fork than vote for her and her party.

 

She got the nickname 'the iron lady' from the Soviets as a bit of a joke but the sycophantic right wing press used it as a badge of hardness and made her seem like a tough cookie.

The truth is that she was an outright coward because she only fought battles with 'enemies' she could easily beat,hence the article about delaying the miners conflict a few years until she had rigged the battle in her favour.

She was also a massive shithouse with the city of london because her advisors warned her about the greed is good culture and the damage it was doing but she was terrified of them turning on her and kicking her out.

 

I'd love to be the person to turn off her life support or smother her with a pillow but it would take me a week to reach the front of the queue.

Now that is something I'd be glad to hold a street party about.

[zigackly]

Only this week we had the 'Claimants' as cheap labour, a smear campaign against the unions and public sector, an affordable homes fire-sale, foreign policy fuck ups and to top it all a report that milk costs to the government are too much per liter, in schools, and need cutting! It's history repeating itself!

 

When you put it like that ...

[rEddie]

I'm from a town called Clydach Vale in the South Wales Valleys. A mining town like many in the Valleys. I was lucky in that my father wasn't a miner. I had friends whose fathers lost their means to generate an income and many who have not found meaningful work since. I remember winning a hamper in a Xmas raffle and giving it to my best mate so that his family had Xmas dinner. I didn't think it could possibly be an insensitive gesture at the time (I was 16) and though my mate's father accepted it with thanks, I remember a haunted look in his eyes that it had all come to this for him and his family. The other thing I remember is a miner so desperate, that he broke the picket-line and returned to work. His house was stoned. Community absolutely ripped apart. So sad. This is my abiding memory of Thatcher.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Every morning I wake up come on here and see Thatcher as a thread title.The same feeling of joy and happiness goes through me for a few seconds thinking the witch is dead.

 

Then I remember its just a poll and sadness returns.

 

Anyway play loud.

 

[YOUTUBE]Rp5_Ul-qG0w[/YOUTUBE]

[xerxes]

The Britain that Thatcher inherited was in a pretty sorry state both socially, and administratively, after some pretty insipid leadership both Conservative, and Labour.

 

A post war/post imperial mindset still existed, and the world had changed. The defeated Germany and Japan were now the merging industrial powers, America and Russia were the world superpowers, Europe was emerging as a trading bloc more important than the Commonwealth, and we could not get to grips with all of that.

 

The Left was a tainted force. Ideologically there was little evidence that Marxist/Leninist policy was the way forwards, and both the Unions and management were wedded to working practises which were clearly doomed. There was a yawning gap for anyone who could convincingly run an Administration and provide an ideological way forwards. Thatcher filled that gap.

 

Initially most people were happy that the country was put back on its feet again. It WANTED to be put back on its feet. Administratively she did the job. But as she gained confidence so the ideology gained ground, and that is where her social judgement let her down. Socially the sale of council houses that the council couldn’t be bothered to look after anyway was socially empowering, but the failure to care for the remaining stock properly was retrograde. The denationalisation of British Airways , BL and BT was 100% right, the denationalisation of the utilities a dangerous mess.

 

The Miners Strikes, in retrospect was a foolish battle on the part of both sides. The industry was declining, and the social damage it caused immense and damaging to the Tories, equally it was a battle that Scargill could never win. If the Miners dispute represented an end to the workers v bosses battles of the past, Grunwick defined the future. In 1982 I knew someone who earned £50k a year on Fleet street for three night shifts a week, as a machine minder. They all knew that they were on a gravy train- and they were going to have to be hauled off it screaming and kicking. And therein lies a lesson, the bankers are not going to be weaned off their bonuses until dragged of screaming and kicking too.

 

The Falklands were lucky for her, just as the Country was doubting the direction she was taking us in after getting the country up and running again she had a war to fight. Psychologically I think that empowered her more than any Commons victory.

 

Economically, the strides we made in the 80’s are a matter of record. There was a social cost which was too high with social improvements too low on the agenda too. But with Japan and Germany energised from having been flattened and rebuilt, and America seizing the spoils of war ( we did not finish paying them back till a few years ago) industrial change was not going to be easy.

 

The Poll Tax was her Iraq. Everyone knew it was going to be a disaster, and so it proved, and even now, she doesn’t get why, the link with the Miners Strike unmistakeable.

 

And that is as objective an assessment as I can offer.

[Stu Monty]

 

Horrible, neoliberal, Chicago School cunts, the pair of them.

[Section_31]

An interesting question when it comes to Thatcher's legacy, a legacy perpetuated by New Labour, is is Britain a better place because of it. I think the answer depends on (a) who you are and (b) what you value.

 

I think if you've got the connections, the brains and the will you can get further in post Thatcher Britain in terms of personal wealth, status etc, but that's only a very small percentage.

 

What I would have liked to have sampled though, is the concept of community. It's quite simply something me and my generation of British people will never know. We don't know our neighbours, many of us don't even know our extended family, and I firmly believe that's down to the breakdown of community which comes from the destruction of industry and the creation of a culture based on the individual.

 

I would have liked to have sampled a life where I could leave my kids with my neighbour, where I could go for a drink after work with some workmates who I also went to school with, and watch my kid play sport with my friends' kids.

 

Stable industrial work for the working class brought with it social clubs, sports clubs, and enabled their workers the security and stability to build families and set up homes. Once established, these communities regulated themselves in many ways and the state didn't need to pick up the bill for tthings like child care, caring for elderly relatives, or even dealing with someone who'd stepped out of line and was making the community's life a misery.

 

That sounds like some people's idea of hell, and fair enough, but IMO it solved more problems than it created. People now live behind walls, physical, mental and social, and even though a small minority have gained things - financially speaking - I think collectively we've lost a great deal, and you only have to live near a sink estate to witness how that can affect us all.

[zigackly]

Great post Section.

[KMD7]

An interesting question when it comes to Thatcher's legacy, a legacy perpetuated by New Labour, is is Britain a better place because of it. I think the answer depends on (a) who you are and (b) what you value.

 

I think if you've got the connections, the brains and the will you can get further in post Thatcher Britain in terms of personal wealth, status etc, but that's only a very small percentage.

 

What I would have liked to have sampled though, is the concept of community. It's quite simply something me and my generation of British people will never know. We don't know our neighbours, many of us don't even know our extended family, and I firmly believe that's down to the breakdown of community which comes from the destruction of industry and the creation of a culture based on the individual.

 

I would have liked to have sampled a life where I could leave my kids with my neighbour, where I could go for a drink after work with some workmates who I also went to school with, and watch my kid play sport with my friends' kids.

 

Stable industrial work for the working class brought with it social clubs, sports clubs, and enabled their workers the security and stability to build families and set up homes. Once established, these communities regulated themselves in many ways and the state didn't need to pick up the bill for tthings like child care, caring for elderly relatives, or even dealing with someone who'd stepped out of line and was making the community's life a misery.

 

That sounds like some people's idea of hell, and fair enough, but IMO it solved more problems than it created. People now live behind walls, physical, mental and social, and even though a small minority have gained things - financially speaking - I think collectively we've lost a great deal, and you only have to live near a sink estate to witness how that can affect us all.

 

Wow that is an outstanding post. John Pilger is one of my favourite writers/journo's and his book 'Heroes' has a chapter which compiles his writings during the miners strike in the early 80's and the devastation that thatchers policy caused at a human level. His interviews with some of those courageous miners who tried to protect the very lifestyle which you so vividly outline and advocate above from thatchers policies are among the saddest things I've ever read. Take a well earned bow.

[Guest TK-421]

Vintage Section right there.

[Strontium]

I don't buy into this halcyon view of the past. You can't get much more (small c) conservative than that kind of rose-tinted retrospective.